Why do other Christians hate Calvinist so much?

[faceofbear]

faceobear: sorry, I asked on another thread, I think, but don't remember where. I asked why do you shy away from typing "God" ?

No particular reason of righteousness or wrongfulness. see below response. But personally, I've I have found that removing the "o" reminds me not to be careless when describing G-D or debating about Him. It is simply a physical reminder. Much in the way people capitalize the H in Him. Ive found changing the spelling has reminded me it is better to listen than to speak. I have many reasons, but namely, a failed attempt to keep from pride.

 

[3rdHeaven]

I really don't understand this very clear hatred of those who believe in the theory of Calvinism. You may disagree and that is your right but it is also our right to believe in it. There are scriptures to back both sides of this debate to each his own after doing your own individual research. I see it all over CF and it gets very mean and cruel at times. Something about this debate makes people leave the Christian part of them outside the debate and the anger takes over. I don't see why this has to divide us as much as it does we all have the same big goal and the same big belief system. The little stuff is stupid to fight over discuss it give your views fine but when it crosses into being sinful behavior to back your side enough is enough you are no longer pleasing anyone especially not God!

Everyone here really needs to reel it in on this topic. I have seen enough around here to make me sick. Many should be ashamed of the way they have behaved toward others because of this topic.

Get it together and be like Christ in all things!!

I don't think it's really a hate towards Calvinists as it is so much towards Calvinism (Calvin).

I think there are a few contributing factors to consider.

1 Frustration
2. Passion

Most Calvinists, not always but in general, are better versed and therefore have a unfair advantage over most Christians. While this should imho simply force those to study more! Not get mad

Also, some Calvinists tend to be arrogant, certainly not all! This adds to the mix.

I happen to respect Calvinism and Calvinists despite not completely agreeing with every thing they believe or accept. I admire their zest and devotion to the scriptures, how ever wrong they may be

They don't rattle my beliefs at all so I can listen to and read their stuff and fully enjoy my inter-reaction with them.

If any thing, Calvinists should make you examine the scriptures and do some more studying and there is nothing wrong with that! That's a win-win!

This is one of the most interesting topics we can discuss! No one will have the final word. No one one can claim to have won this debate! But we can each regardless of position, take this opportunity to grow spiritually and structurally!

 

[Isatis]

faceobear: sorry, I asked on another thread, I think, but don't remember where. I asked why do you shy away from typing "God" ?

Why Do Jews Write "G-d" instead of "God"?

 

[Precisely]

Isn't writing "G-d" a defacement in itself?...

 

[TheWELLchurch]

Thinking biblically has ALWAYS created hatred; read, the Cross!

atTheWELLchurch.com

 

[Precisely]

Thinking biblically has ALWAYS created hatred; read, the Cross!

atTheWELLchurch.com

If a Christian doesn't have hatred, they aren't a Christian. We are supposed to hate what God hates (sin, falsehood, hypocrisy, etc).

 

[His_disciple3]

I don't think it's really a hate towards Calvinists as it is so much towards Calvinism (Calvin).

I think there are a few contributing factors to consider.

1 Frustration
2. Passion

Most Calvinists, not always but in general, are better versed and therefore have a unfair advantage over most Christians. While this should imho simply force those to study more! Not get mad

Also, some Calvinists tend to be arrogant, certainly not all! This adds to the mix.

I happen to respect Calvinism and Calvinists despite not completely agreeing with every thing they believe or accept. I admire their zest and devotion to the scriptures, how ever wrong they may be

They don't rattle my beliefs at all so I can listen to and read their stuff and fully enjoy my inter-reaction with them.

If any thing, Calvinists should make you examine the scriptures and do some more studying and there is nothing wrong with that! That's a win-win!

This is one of the most interesting topics we can discuss! No one will have the final word. No one one can claim to have won this debate! But we can each regardless of position, take this opportunity to grow spiritually and structurally!

1 Corinthians 13:4
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
KJV
Proverbs 8:13
13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
KJV
Proverbs 16:18
18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
KJV

 

[His_disciple3]

And you believe these so-called visions and dreams? Is God's Word not enough that we need visions and dreams?

they had God directly speaking to them in the old testament and they had the word of God, and He still spoke through dreams and visions, they had Jesus directly speaking to them in the new testament, and they had the word of God and God spoke to Peter through a dream, Joel's prophecy the one Peter preached at pentecost said that there would be dreams and visions, in a time from when God would poured out His Spirit on all flesh and until the sun darken and the moon turned to blood. but yeah you probably are right God don't work that way anymore! NOT !!!

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and tomorrow!

 

[DeaconDean]

What a strange god who creates people and then wants to destroy them -- or at least doesn't want them to be with him.

did you just say the damn-nation of a persons soul serves a greater purpose? [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]!!!

Let me see if I can answer both here.

In Exodus, we read of Pharoah.

Several times all though the contests with Pharoah, he says:

"Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go." -Ex. 5:2 (KJV)

Paul says:

"For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth." -Rom. 9:17 (KJV)

God raised Pharoah just for the expressed purpose that His power, His glory, would be declared though Pharoah. The same principle applies to Nebucadnezzar, the same with Cyrus.

Is there any scriptural proof that Pharoah, Nebucadnezzar, or even Cyrus repented or were saved?

We don't always know the purpose other than in some way, God power, majesty, glory is made manifest in the reprobate.

That is as plain as I can make it.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[His_disciple3]

Let me see if I can answer both here.

In Exodus, we read of Pharoah.

Several times all though the contests with Pharoah, he says:

"Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go." -Ex. 5:2 (KJV)

Paul says:

"For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth." -Rom. 9:17 (KJV)

God raised Pharoah just for the expressed purpose that His power, His glory, would be declared though Pharoah. The same principle applies to Nebucadnezzar, the same with Cyrus.

Is there any scriptural proof that Pharoah, Nebucadnezzar, or even Cyrus repented or were saved?

We don't always know the purpose other than in some way, God power, majesty, glory is made manifest in the reprobate.

That is as plain as I can make it.

God Bless

Till all are one.

You are you deac? all three of these kings recognized God as the God in the scriptures. and where is there any Bibical proof that they didn't repent. you demand of me to retract, not for me but for yourself I would retract this statement of these kings, you have judged these three into hell, without any proof and this is not your place. a true calvainist will tell us that we can't know who the elect is, which by the way is another black eye for the calvinist For the Bible clearly says that we can know them by their fruits!!! But even if someone is questionable it is not our place to put them into hell as you have these three kings

 

[phoenixdem]

"Is there any scriptural proof that Pharoah, Nebucadnezzar, or even Cyrus repented or were saved?"

Is there any Scripture which points out that they weren't? Where the Scriptures are silent, perhaps, we shouldn't assume.

 

[His_disciple3]

Aren't you assuming that disbelief is passive non-action?

It seems that unbelief is outright rebellion.

The command to repent and believe is a command, an imperative. It is not a well wish or a suggestion.

To not do those things is to spit in God's face, say he's unjust for commanding such a thing, rebel, disobey, etc.

That's not "neutrality", that's hate!

Further, the bible says that all fallen people are hostile to God, enemies of God, haters of God. Not that people are neutral towards God.

what good does it do for me to repent and believe or even to repent or believe if I am not of the elect?? If I am in before time begin as we know it, it won't matter what I do or Don't do, I am in!!! God is Soveriegn and nothing I can do can change God. so the bible that says that all fallen are hostile toward God according to you ( as a calvinist) is the same Bible that says that God won't give them a chance to turn from being hostile, and to love Him. I think your post here coming from a calvinist is what we folks around here call; speaking out of both sides of your mouth, but a biblical term might better be known as two faced! with calvinism there is too many questions why repent , why the Cross, why the death of Jesus, why did He have to drink from that cup, for people who were already sealed into the kingdom. so you say i have to repent, but if I am in the elect according to calvinism why do I have to repent, because God commanded me to repent, so what if I don't, then a calvinist would have to respond , you would have to repent, for you can't resist God, then it is not up to me to repent as you have just said, If I am of the elect God will make me do what I need to do, so I am not responsible for anything remember I am dead, dead people can't respond if they can't respond how can I be held responsible if I repent of if I don't repent!! If all die through sin and God don't quicken all that are dead in their trespasses and give us a chance to repent then, i can't repent it ain't on me to repent . see how you are speaking one gospel one minute and another gosple another minute? see how a calvinist god says to repent but says that He is soveriegn and we can't resist him and obey him, oh I spoke that wrong. He will only let those that He loves obey Him. so why tell someone to repent you don't know if they are of the elect. it's like telling a child without wings to fly, wouldn't it be better to say that God quickens us and gives us faith to use to believe him, and those that don't are responsible for their actions, oh no wait I forgot who I was talking to, a true calvinist would never admit that God made us responsible for our owns actions. just keep ignoring all the above, don't pay it any mind who I am, but a man of unclean lips, I know I should be content, for God made me this way. but that salvation that was offered by grace through faith In His Begotten Son, it did look so pleasing, only if He had given me a chance. I might have could loved Him so!!!!

 

[DeaconDean]

"Is there any scriptural proof that Pharoah, Nebucadnezzar, or even Cyrus repented or were saved?"

Is there any Scripture which points out that they weren't? Where the Scriptures are silent, perhaps, we shouldn't assume.

Just from a purely technical side, in the OT, and until after the resurrectioin, anybody who was not a Hebrew or a Jew were excluded from the blessings of God, this included Pharoah, Nebucadnezzar, and Cyrus.

Remember what Jesus said to the Samaritian woman?

"salvation is of the Jews." -Jn. 4:22 (KJV)

In order to enjoy the blessings of God, in the OT one had to convert to Judaism and this included "ritual" circumcision as per the Law.

I have not found anywhere where Pharoah, Nebucabnezzar, or Cyrus ever converted to Judaism.

Was Pharoah, Nebucabnezzar, or Cyrus a Jew?

Point and match.

Point being, even though these people were outside the blessings of God, outside looking in at the Hebrews/Jews, in God's infinite plan, He made use of them to show forth His glory, power, and majesty.

And that is the point.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Hupomone10]

Nope, no retractions from me. I said it was wrong, I did not say you were sinning.

I have fought beside my brother one more than one occasion here in the Baptist area from many Arminians who come here to start debates based on faulty arguments.

And when we do, whatever we say is generally in defense, never in attack.

I can say with the upmost confidence that neither my brother or myself have ever started any threads to attack the Arminian position.

Have I spoken harshly in the past here on the forums?

I sure have.

And when I am accused of changing the meaning of words in the scriptures just because I'm a Calvinist, I'll probably say more.

And I still in defense of my brother.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I understand.

 

[Robs07M6S]

I wonder, if we were all in a room together having this debate in person would it come to blows between some of us? sure seems that way. Faceofbear gave the best advice when he said we will be judged for every idle word and Lord knows I have had my share of them the past few days, Father forgive me.

 

[Hammster]

what good does it do for me to repent and believe or even to repent or believe if I am not of the elect?

If you aren't of the elect, you won't repent and believe.

 

[phoenixdem]

Just from a purely technical side, in the OT, and until after the resurrectioin, anybody who was not a Hebrew or a Jew were excluded from the blessings of God, this included Pharoah, Nebucadnezzar, and Cyrus.

Remember what Jesus said to the Samaritian woman?

"salvation is of the Jews." -Jn. 4:22 (KJV)

In order to enjoy the blessings of God, in the OT one had to convert to Judaism and this included "ritual" circumcision as per the Law.

I have not found anywhere where Pharoah, Nebucabnezzar, or Cyrus ever converted to Judaism.

Was Pharoah, Nebucabnezzar, or Cyrus a Jew?

Point and match.

Point being, even though these people were outside the blessings of God, outside looking in at the Hebrews/Jews, in God's infinite plan, He made use of them to show forth His glory, power, and majesty.

And that is the point.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I believe my post concerned the three kings. They came from the East to worship the Messiah. Isn't that the trait of faith? The Scriptures tell us that the Law never saved anyone and salvation has always, read that ALWAYS, been through Grace by faith. I wouldn't say they came to worship God, but weren't saved. That sort of judgement is best left to God.

 

[Hammster]

Just from a purely technical side, in the OT, and until after the resurrectioin, anybody who was not a Hebrew or a Jew were excluded from the blessings of God, this included Pharoah, Nebucadnezzar, and Cyrus.

Remember what Jesus said to the Samaritian woman?

"salvation is of the Jews." -Jn. 4:22 (KJV)

In order to enjoy the blessings of God, in the OT one had to convert to Judaism and this included "ritual" circumcision as per the Law.

I have not found anywhere where Pharoah, Nebucabnezzar, or Cyrus ever converted to Judaism.

Was Pharoah, Nebucabnezzar, or Cyrus a Jew?

Point and match.

Point being, even though these people were outside the blessings of God, outside looking in at the Hebrews/Jews, in God's infinite plan, He made use of them to show forth His glory, power, and majesty.

And that is the point.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Job?

 

[Robs07M6S]

If you aren't of the elect, you won't repent and believe.

Thats the way I see it, its like a paradox?

 

[VCViking]

Ephesians 4:18 "Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:"


James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."


Acts 3:17 "And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers."



Proverbs 19:2 "Also, that the soul be without knowledge, it is not good; and he that hasteth with his feet sinneth."


Proverbs 8:5 "O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart."