Puritan Pub

[VCViking]

VCV, we invite you to join our table here in the pub, drink tea if you like. I don't want to argue.

In the pub you can discuss all kinds of topics, not just alcohol and tobacco.

Besides, I thought I read somewhere you were bored and most other topics have been discussed. Does this not liven up the pub?

 

[VCViking]

Thank you Carrie Nation.

I'll be breaking up my comments into different posts so as to not be so convoluded.

Carrie Nation? Nice way to mischaractize my statements. Where did I say alcohol by itself is a sin? Where did I say I was aganist alcohol? Why throw labels at people who disagree with you and try to immediatley discredit them? Read my comments again because you are twisting them. Drinking wine/beer is not a sin, as I stated in my posts.

 

[VCViking]

Seriously, any argument you offer from you high pietism is going to be rejected by Reformed folks, MacArthur and Piper included.

Sorry, didn't realize you're the leader/representative of Reformed folk, mac and piper included. Read their articles and you will see that they disagree with you. My views are exactly what they are saying but somehow you selectively chosen to disregard that and claim that I am against alcohol.

A portion from the Macarthur link
"Of course, beer is by no means the only token of cultural savvy frequently associated with young-and-restless religion. All kinds of activities deemed vices by mothers everywhere have been adopted as badges of Calvinist identity and thus "redeemed": tobacco, tattoos, gambling, mixed martial arts, profane language, and lots of explicit talk about sex."

"Cast a disapproving eye at any of those activities, and you are likely to be swarmed by restless reformers denouncing legalism and wanting to debate whether it’s a “sin” to drink wine or smoke a cigar. But without even raising the question of whether this or that specific activity is acceptable, indifferent, or out-and-out evil, we surely ought to be able to say that controlled substances and other symbols of secular society's seamy side are not what the church of Jesus Christ ought to wish to be known for. In fact, until fairly recently, no credible believer in the entire church age would ever have suggested that so many features evoking the ambiance of a pool hall or a casino could also be suitable insignia for the people of God." - John MacArthur

 

[VCViking]

Anything can be a stumbling block...

Alcohol, sports and food are all addictive in some sense and we can make idols out of any of them.

Yes, we can that it is why we must be carefull and "be not conformed to this world..." for alcohol "...it kills millions of people in this culture. It's killing marriages, it's killing jobs. Alcohol is deadly in this culture." John Piper


Alcohol is not the same as food and sports. As a cop, I've never been to to a call where sports and food were the cause of a problem. Too many for alcohol. If you can't grasp this, you're not dealing with reality.


"I sense a lot of young guys who don't want to be legalistic and want to spread their wings and know gospel freedom are just not very realistic about the world in which we live." - John Piper

 

[VCViking]

Lets see..."Carrie Nation, high pietism, high horse Fundamentalism, your faulty position, Legalism, pietist."

Throwing out labels at me to label me as such to discredit me is quite childish. Sorry, but I'm not in the IFB camp. Two quotes referring to what you are doing to me.

"Cast a disapproving eye at any of those activities, and you are likely to be swarmed by restless reformers denouncing legalism and wanting to debate whether it’s a “sin” to drink wine or smoke a cigar." - John MacArthur

"I sense a lot of young guys who don't want to be legalistic and want to spread their wings and know gospel freedom are just not very realistic about the world in which we live." - John Piper

 

[VCViking]

I'm well aware of Spurgeon and cigars. It is reported that he did so because a Dr advised him to do so to help him in his pain and that later on in life, as it was not helping but hurting his depleting health, he stopped. There are other accounts that are similar but I haven't verifeid to the factuality of any these and I do not plan on doing so as of yet.

If he stopped, great for him. If he never did stop, then that is too bad and I disagree with him there.

 

[VCViking]

"Accordingly if the devil should say, ‘Do not drink,’ you should reply to him, ‘On this very account, because you forbid it, I shall drink, and what is more, I shall drink a generous amount. Thus one must always do the opposite of that which Satan prohibits. What do you think is my reason for drinking wine undiluted, talking freely, and eating more often, if it is not to torment and vex the devil who made up his mind to torment and vex me." - Martin Luther

Yeah, Luther encourageing one to get drunk. Real nice. Where do you draw the line on drunkeness? Have more than one beer and drive, you've most likely crossed it.

 

[VCViking]

I'll leave you with a quote from a great Reformer who understood the root of legalism on this matter. He does not tell us to sin but to live in freedom from the bondage that legalism places us in. If you do not enjoy spirits or tobacco, sports or food, that is up to you...but do not saddle others with your own personal legalisms.

Legalism is "CCM, P&W is of the devil, only hymns are biblical...men must wear suits and ties, women skirts to the ankle, no pants," or anything that is put on a believer to do that is not found in the bible. Being a stumbling block is found in the bible, so is limits on alcohol. As Leonard Ravenhill once stated, "When there’s something in the Bible that churches don’t like, they call it 'legalism.'"

I'll leave and rest my points with the following, which sums up my whole contention. I also leave with no hard feelings, lables and all. I hope you can do the same.


“All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor."

"But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak."

"I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak."

 

[JM]

VCV, just so you know I'm not going to read your posts. I'm addicted to arguing on the net and if I read them you'll cause me to stumble by getting me involved in sinful behavior.

Kidding.

For real, I posted links and a video that deal with the most arguments and I have no heart to fight this one out. If you think it's a sin, fine. You had your say and I will let it stand at that.

jm

 

[VCViking]

VCV, just so you know I'm not going to read your posts. I'm addicted to arguing on the net and if I read them you'll cause me to stumble by getting me involved in sinful behavior.

Kidding.

For real, I posted links and a video that deal with the most arguments and I have no heart to fight this one out. If you think it's a sin, fine. You had your say and I will let it stand at that.

jm

LOL. I agree and feel the same.

 

[JM]

A quote from the video, "before Fundamentalism attacked us..."

PipePastor "A Christian Man & His Liberties, Prt. 2" - YouTube

 

[JM]

"For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith." Gal. 5.5



What an awesome truth. I'll drink to that.

 

[AndOne]

get er done....

 

[Osage Bluestem]

snibber snibbitt

 

[file13]

"For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith." Gal. 5.5

What an awesome truth. I'll drink to that.

I'll drink to that brother!

 

[GQ Chris]

Wha? Someone arguing drinking is sin with a Spurgeon avatar huh, I believe he enjoyed cigars and drank.

 

[cygnusx1]

I'll drink to that brother!

 

[JM]

Vitor over Johnson...Aldo will remain king!

I can't believe Johnson came in 15lbs over the weight limit and it's not the first time he didn't make weight. Vitor by KO after battering him for a round.

 

[VCViking]

Wha? Someone arguing drinking is sin with a Spurgeon avatar huh, I believe he enjoyed cigars and drank.

Wha? Did I actually write drinking is a sin? Huh? Now put the beer down and read slowly. No, I'm not arguing drinking is a sin. Besides, read up on Spurgeon and drinking. Cigars? He loved them a little too much.

When finished, resume beer.

 

[GQ Chris]

^You implied it, which is bad enough. You don't have to come right out and say it. There's plenty of people who do that enough.