@ moth and VCV, I understand your concern, but you do not have to visit or post in this thread. Football, mixed martial arts, eating restaurant food (like Mikey D's), chocolate, women, etc. can all be abused. Should we not discuss them because sinful man makes their use sinful through motive? I don't think so. The title of this thread should also stand as a warning to those who should not enter.
It's a little ridiculous to compare alcohol to sports and food. Sports and food are not destructive and addictive like alcohol is. Alcohol has and still does destroy many, many lives.
So, because I disagree with you I shouldn't visit or post? I do so only as a warning that this thread is a stumbling block to many. And a declaration to those viewing that not all those of the Reformed faith condone it.
I neither said nor implied that it was sinful to drink wine; nay, I said that, in and by itself, this might be done without blame. But I remarked that, if I knew that another would be led to take it by my example, and this would lead them on to further drinking, and even to intoxication, then I would not touch it....
I abstain myself from alcoholic drink in every form, and I think others would be wise to do the same; but of this each one must be a guide unto himself. ~ Charles Spurgeon
"So Spurgeon admitted he would give up his Christian liberty in order to avoid leading another astray. And eventually, in the last few years of his life, thats precisely what he did. Spurgeon became a total abstainer." - Unk
"I might speak of men who will venture into the midst of temptation, confident in their boasted power, exclaiming with self-complacency, Do you think I am so weak as to sin? Oh! no, I shall stand. Give me the glass; I shall never be a drunkard. Give me the song; you will not find me a midnight reveller. I can drink a little and then I can stop. Such are presumptuous men." - Spurgeon
From John Piper (from video)
What do you say to those who claim drinking is OK because Jesus drank wine?
You say, "I think you meant to add just a word or two to that sentence, like 'drinking
can be OK' ... OK?" The statement "It's OK" may or may not carry in their mind a pattern of life that's healthy.
I would say some drinking is definitely not OK, like drinking to drunkenness. That's clear in the Bible. Another one that's not OK is drinking with a person who is manifestly having their conscience wounded and being tempted or drawn into something that they just spent six years trying through Teen Challenge and AA to get free from. And now you're drawing them right in to what killed them! And it kills millions of people in this culture. It's killing marriages, it's killing jobs. Alcohol is deadly in this culture.
Now I don't know how deadly it was in Jesus' culture. Drunkenness was real. Clearly the Bible condemns it. How real and deadly it was though, I don't know. I just know what I'm dealing with when I go to talk at Teen Challenge or when I pray with a man like I did after church last Sunday who said, "When I'm done here, I'm going out and getting drunk, because I'm done. I think I'm apostate, and I'm beyond help and forgiveness. And I've been through treatment so many times it's hopeless." I just know that is so prevalent. People that are cavalier about this thing called alcohol make no sense to me.
I sense a lot of young guys who don't want to be legalistic and want to spread their wings and know gospel freedom are just not very realistic about the world in which we live. - John Piper
I had it done once in my life and it is truly an experience.
