Ascended Messiahs, Angels, Aliens & UFOs: How would Spirituality change if E.T came?

[Gxg (G²)]

Thanks for sharin' all them links & videos.
I.

Glad to know the material/info was considered and appreciated..

I don't exactly dwell on the topic anymore. but I do try to keep current.

Likewise, hence the purpose of the OP since anyone keeping up with current events will quickly see where numerous people are graviting toward the entire UFO ideology/being skeptical of anything labeled "divine"...and with others in the New Age world/trapped within it, it's a big deal for believers to understand how to actually go about addressing the questions people have rather than simply having our heads in the sand like nothing's going on.

Whole lotta homework done on this, & it ain't foolishness once it happens to you or a loved one.

Wouldn't wish it on anyone

Amen. For people saying "foolishness", I'd say that that it's foolish to promote a lack of concern for the lost/failing to engage issues as Paul himself did alongside Christ/Yeshua. And for others who need answers, I'm glad for people taking others back to the scriptures on the matter.

It truly is no small issue when it involves those who are your loved ones. In example, when my grandmother was in recently and we were discussing in-depth about the scriptures, it was grieving to me to see how she really didn't have a strong church family where she was....thus making her more prone to consider other forms of "alternative Christianities"/even open to things that harmed others in my family when it came to the belief that Aliens were the ones who began life on the planet.

I believe she has a personal walk with the Lord. However, although she has been more open to the person of Christ over the years and acknowledging Him as the Savior/Messiahwilling to accept Him, there's still some confusion on certain aspects.

It was a blessing, according to her, that she was able to sit down and talk with me/my family since so many seemed unwilling to really give substantial answers to the things she was wrestling with---similar to others who may have questions on subjects like evolution and only encounter dogmatic Young Earth Creationists saying anyone believing in Theistic Evolution or that the Earth is very old is going against the Word........and yet never really being exposed to the extensive range of thought within Christendom and seeing Christian thinkers who are ready to renconcile what's discussed in everyday life with what the scriptures declare.

What always surprises me was to see how many things people say the scriptures don't address (and therefore, in their minds, are "off-limits") are actually within scripture. Believers need to stop sitting down/saying "Just believe in Jesus!!!" and give answers in line with a Biblical Wordlview.

 

[Optimax]

Prayerfully, you'll be able to do better next time when it comes to properly applying scripture to a discussion you may disagree with. Till then, if you do not plan on actually addressing what was said in the OP or scripture presented on the matter, it is asked that you simply NOT participate. To do otherwise is disrespectful to the intent of the OP...and if you really feel something isn't wise to discuss, there's no real reason for even being a participant involved.

The OP ask this question.

How would Spirituality change if E.T came? Shalom...


That is a foolish question!

My response is directed to the question in the OP and is very relevant.

E. T. is not coming!

Jesus is coming, not ET.

However I wont disturb your fantasy land imaginings any more.

Imaginings.

Are you familiar with the scripture that speaks about imaginations?

OK, enough reality go on back to never never land.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The OP ask this question.

How would Spirituality change if E.T came? Shalom...


That is a foolish question!.

And again, doesn't take much to say "That's foolish!!!"---but showing such is not the same. Moreover, as it concerns the subject material which others were able to address when noting how believers should handle themselves when certain situations occur, again, you are unable to really deal with the issue.

At this point, you're derailing the thread and it is asked that you either deal with the material of the OP---or save commentary.

My response is directed to the question in the OP is very relevant.

Incorrect, as your response has nothing to do with actually addressing the OP--or the material given/dealing with what other theologians have actually said on the issue when it comes to evangelism. If you think it's foolish, that's your opinion----and you're entitled to your opinion, but not to your own facts.

E. T. is not coming!

Again, as you've given ZERO evidence in the way that such will not occur nor have you really show any reason to suppose alien life doesn't exists outside of dogmatically claiming "Foolish", the response is poor..whether you agree or not.

Jesus is coming, not ET.

As no one said Jesus was not returning, it's rather interesting to consider that you even bring up that point as if it in any way addresses the OP. But again, if the best you can do is assert without giving any real reference, by all means.''

However I wont disturb your fantasy land imaginings any more. vImaginings.

If you deem anything as "fantasy" that disturbs you from dealing with reality/addressing issues occurring in our world, you're free to do so....although it is a baseless response. Indeed, if you cannot contribute to the discussion, it would be appreciated if you simply not share anything since it is not for the sake of actually dealing with what's being discussed by others in the thread.

Are you familiar with the scripture that speaks about imaginations?

Indeed--and it'd behoove you to actually address the scripture IN Context (II Corinthians 10:2-6, Psalm 73:6-8, Isaiah 65:1-3, etc ) before trying to speak to anyone else on it. For if you deem something as an "imagination", that in no way demonstrates that it is such----and at this point, it seems the only real thing you're able to do within this discussion is imagine things being said that were never even stated or implied.

The reality is that people are very much involved in searching for life outside of our own world---and others are in need of having real answers from the scriptures when it comes to the reality of what occurs in ut there"---especially when considering some of his views on things regarding extra-terrestial life, as one can look up online his ministry known as UFO Religions....and there are others who've thankfully chosen to actually get involved/do more than say "Jesus is coming back!!!"...with examples being people such as Michael Heiser (as seen here), Hugh Ross, Chuck Missler and many others.

This is not something that is in any way a difficult issue to grasp, nor should it be. Seeing that you're Word of Faith, this is not a subject that should be beyond the realm of reasonable discussion---as I've had discussions with others within the Faith movement before on the very subject and they were beneficial/constructive (as seen here and here where Copeland's thoughts were once discussed on what the Lord looked like and seeing the descriptions of the angelic as alien.

But of course, everyone's different

OK, enough reality go on back to never never land.

Never even landed there, although hopefully you can come out of it at some point before trying to say/do anything further

 

[Gxg (G²)]

T
Whole lotta homework done on this, & it ain't foolishness once it happens to you or a loved one.

Wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Thank goodness for the Body of Christ which is available to support each other throughout all things..and who knows what will occur in 2012 and the years to come. Ultimately, as long as believers are there for one another, it's all good

 

[Rick Otto]

exactly. that's why I envy the comfort of ignorance & wouldn't wish this even on a guy callin' me a fool.
When I was about 10, I told God I believed in all the stuff about demons & ghosts & asked Him if I coulld be spared having to see or experience any of them as much as possible, I just wanted a "normal" life. I've never seen or experienced anything too spooky to handle, so I'm countin' that prayer as answered, but I have an uneasy feeling that things may get worse before they get better.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Alot of deception is occurring, with it being layers upon layers to ensure the maximum amount of people lost.



There's truly POWER in the name of Jesus

I think the deception begins right there in Genesis, with men who claim God does not mean what He says trying to be the lords of the thinking of men who follow them, blindly, rejecting the plain Word of God on their "say-so", which is heresy. No wonder there is so much confusion. Men do not believe God's Word is true, from the beginning, so they have no firm foundation for belief in anything that follows Genesis.

Genesis very clearly shows that the earth was created with a force called 'heaven', in darkness, and as water, on day 1 of creation week.
There was no light, no heavens stretched out, no sun, moon, nor stars.
Light was called into being on day 1.
The darkness was called night and the light was called day, and the evening and the morning, together, were echad/one day, and they circled the globe of water once, each day.
Still, there were no heavens stretched out, and the globe was a water mass.
Day 2, the waters/mayim of the creation, of the globe, were divided in two, and the heavens/sha-mayim, were, by supernatural powers called "forces/pillars", stretched out between the waters of this globe, with half of the waters above the stretched out heavens, and the half below. Still, there was no sun, no moon, no stars, and no land mass.

Day 3, the waters below were commanded to be gathered into one place, and for "dry" to appear. God called the waters seas, and the dry He called earth. Still, no sun, no moon, and no stars.
The earth was commanded to bring forth grasses, herbs, fruit trees, all of which had their seed within themselves, to multiply by. Still, no
sun, moon, nor stars -but day and night, by the darkness and the light.

Day 4, the sun, moon, and stars were brought into being.
no fish in the seas, no birds in the air, and no beasts in the earth, and no Adam creation, still

& etc.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think the deception begins right there in Genesis, with men who claim God does not mean what He says trying to be the lords of the thinking of men who follow them, blindly, rejecting the plain Word of God on their "say-so", which is heresy. quote]

All thing have to always be filtered through the Word of God/Scripture--Prima Scriptura (As discussed elsewhere on the boards here). It was with doubt on the Word that the enemy was able to decieve Eve in the Garden of Eden when he influenced her to not trust what the Lord had instructed her/Adam in.....and the same concept goes for many other things that the Word of the Lord discusses plainly in scripture, whether it agrees with what we'd like or not.

Within the context of what is being discussed in this thread, I think the same dynamic of doubt can occur---be that in realizing the supremacy of the Lord in all things, or in acknowleding where the scriptures discuss (in vivid detail) the subject of the Lord being the "God of gods"/having a Divine Council, or even in realizing that Christ will return to settle all accounts.....and taking seriously when he said "as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the end" ( Matthew 24:36-38 , Luke 17:25-27 /Luke 17 ). The Word of God must always be the focus.

Where people line up with that, they should be listened to/supported---and where they diverge, it is to not be held seriously. There are many things within that, of course, that are a matter of interpretation rather than disagreement with the scriptures....and within that, there are many moments that people can drop the "H" Bomb (heresy) without really understanding what the term means (more discussed in #47 , #48 , #52 and here ). Some things that others may deem as controversial are not necessarily in disagreement with the heart of God...as it can simply be minority views and things not really held to by all---and one man's "orthodoxy" is another man's "heresy" in many cases.

Genesis very clearly shows that the earth was created with a force called 'heaven', in darkness, and as water, on day 1 of creation week.
There was no light, no heavens stretched out, no sun, moon, nor stars.

Light was called into being on day 1.

The darkness was called night and the light was called day, and the evening and the morning, together, were echad/one day, and they circled the globe of water once, each day.

Still, there were no heavens stretched out, and the globe was a water mass.

Day 2, the waters/mayim of the creation, of the globe, were divided in two, and the heavens/sha-mayim, were, by supernatural powers called "forces/pillars", stretched out between the waters of this globe, with half of the waters above the stretched out heavens, and the half below. Still, there was no sun, no moon, no stars, and no land mass.

Day 3, the waters below were commanded to be gathered into one place, and for "dry" to appear. God called the waters seas, and the dry He called earth. Still, no sun, no moon, and no stars.

The earth was commanded to bring forth grasses, herbs, fruit trees, all of which had their seed within themselves, to multiply by. Still, no
sun, moon, nor stars -but day and night, by the darkness and the light.

Day 4, the sun, moon, and stars were brought into being.
no fish in the seas, no birds in the air, and no beasts in the earth, and no Adam creation, still

& etc.

Seeing the way that creation occurred is truly beautiful. Psalm 104 comes immediately to mind alongside other Psalms . But I agree with you in what you noted..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

exactly. that's why I envy the comfort of ignorance & wouldn't wish this even on a guy callin' me a fool.

When I was about 10, I told God I believed in all the stuff about demons & ghosts & asked Him if I coulld be spared having to see or experience any of them as much as possible, I just wanted a "normal" life. I've never seen or experienced anything too spooky to handle, so I'm countin' that prayer as answered, but I have an uneasy feeling that things may get worse before they get better.

As long as the Lord is involved/going ahead of His people, fear is not something to walk in.....even if the things one may be aware of can be overwhelming. There are many days I've had growing up where I wish I didn't become aware of certain things....for "with more knowledge comes more grief" (Ecclesiastes 1:17-18 )

Nonetheless, the only one to fear is the Lord (Proverbs 1), as it concerns living in reverent awe/honor of who He is...and as the scriptures have decleared:

1 John 4:4
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world

You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
1 John 4:3-5

Romans 8:28

More Than Conquerors

31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”[j]
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
​

 

[Doublemint]

I got the History Channel's Ancient Aliens series.

Since this is perhaps the first time I am kind of seriously looking at this stuff - I found the evidences that the Pyramids were built by technology that is not of the times as completely overwhelming.

And the precision of stone cutting techniques of these MASSIVE slabs (the way it was shown on History Channel) should convince anyone that there is really something going on that is extraordinary.

G, can you show me links of the objections others have that pyramids, lifting huge 50 ton stones and fitting them precisely could have been done by a regular technology of the times?

And concerning these guys being fallen angels (the bad guys) I really have no doubts about.
But that is not the point of this discussion, I guess.

Besides, if they show up, any Christian can tell them that Jesus loves them and move on.
What else can you do?

If they wanted us dead, we would be dead by now, so there is no reason getting paranoid.

Thanks,

 

[Jipsah]

You got a lot more faith in Joe 6Pack than me, Jipsah.

Not faith in so much as familiarity with. Maybe I've hung with rednecks, Koreans (there's more overlap in those 2 groups than you might first think), and people who raise hogs and grow 'baccer too long and thus think they're typical when they're really not. But if they are, you have no need to worry about folks automatically worshipping the Space Gooomers.

The members of the Sixpack clan that I know and love would be more likely to reach for shotguns than prayer rugs. They (well, OK, we) aren't particularly trusting souls, and generally disinclined to think well of anyone who makes dramatic entrances and grandiose claims. Plus we've been brought up on enough space opera to know that not all, or probably not even many, Space Goomers are nice folks with the best interests of humanity at heart. We're natural cynics and skeptics, and that isn't a bad thing. The line between an "open mind" and slack-jawed gullibility is often fine to the point of nonexistence.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I got the History Channel's Ancient Aliens series.

Since this is perhaps the first time I am kind of seriously looking at this stuff - I found the evidences that the Pyramids were built by technology that is not of the times as completely overwhelming.

Generally, that tends to be how many people can feel when coming across some of the facts that are not explained away easily...

And the precision of stone cutting techniques of these MASSIVE slabs (the way it was shown on History Channel) should convince anyone that there is really something going on that is extraordinary.

I agree...and outside of that, there are DOZENS of other designs/patterns around the world where the same has been speculated...from the Statues at Easter Island to Stone Henge and many other places.

G, can you show me links of the objections others have that pyramids, lifting huge 50 ton stones and fitting them precisely could have been done by a regular technology of the times?

The main ones I'm aware of are by Michael Heiser (whom I referenced earlier in his evangelistic work with those into UFO theology/conventions and who's one of the prominent scholars within Ancient Israelite culture, seen here ). He has another website dedicated solely to addressing such issues by giving theories/descriptions of ways certain events could have occurred without extraordinary help...and in example, one can go here , here or here at the following link:

• PaleoBabble >> Did the Egyptians Need Alien Technology to Build the Pyramids? - Michael S. Heiser

Some things I disagree with him on, but I'm glad he gave differing perspectives.

And concerning these guys being fallen angels (the bad guys) I really have no doubts about.


But that is not the point of this discussion, I guess.

Actually, as the OP/earlier postings discuss the issue of how accounts of UFO activity can possibly be fallen angels and demons as well as accounts of heavenly beings mistaken for being something else, you're very much in line with the point of discussion. For the main point was understanding how we as believers should respond and what would be the best informed/Biblical answer for such things.

Besides, if they show up, any Christian can tell them that Jesus loves them and move on.


What else can you do?

Indeed. Like I said before, if a UFO lands and it is indeed other lifeforms, the BLOOD of Christ still stands and they need to know of it. And if it's indeed fallen angels, it'll show up eventually when/if they begin to belittle the work of Christ.

If they wanted us dead, we would be dead by now, so there is no reason getting paranoid.

I think it's one of those things where it's not so much paranoia as much as it's about being prepared. For the reality is that deception is promised to occur in the last days and the enemy already has been destroying us for a long time---and his ultimate goal is to get us to turn away from faith in Messiah (or trust in who He is). It is because of that reason that study (IMHO) is necessary so as to not be caught off guard....or not know how to give answers to those either struggling in their faith or wishing to come to faith while also getting clarity to some of the things they were confused by in UFO religions.

Thanks,

Shalom

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Maybe I've hung with rednecks, Koreans (there's more overlap in those 2 groups than you might first think), and people who raise hogs and grow 'baccer too long and thus think they're typical when they're really not. But if they are, you have no need to worry about folks automatically worshipping the Space Gooomers.

The members of the Sixpack clan that I know and love would be more likely to reach for shotguns than prayer rugs. They (well, OK, we) aren't particularly trusting souls, and generally disinclined to think well of anyone who makes dramatic entrances and grandiose claims. Plus we've been brought up on enough space opera to know that not all, or probably not even many, Space Goomers are nice folks with the best interests of humanity at heart. We're natural cynics and skeptics, and that isn't a bad thing. The line between an "open mind" and slack-jawed gullibility is often fine to the point of nonexistence.

Alot of the media and culture around us has truly programmed people to automatically be suspicious of anyone and anything outside of our realm of existence--and to suspect things from supposedly other worlds are to automatically be trusted. People have been trained to expect the worse and to have no intention of being calm or peaceful if an event were to happen....and even for those who may be religious, you'd see the same mindset manifested that occurred during the days of the Crusade or Jihad. People would possibly attack and believe it was the WIll of the Lord to try destroying others not of the planet any way possible....but for many, it would simply be distrust in the sense that people would just want them to leave. The film "District 9" did an amazing job at illustrating that when it came to showing how much humans would be outright aggressive toward other beings....and harrassing them as much as possible. I thought it was brilliant for the producers of the film to show themes of racism and xenophobia put forward in the form of speciesism applied to the aliens. For the use of the word "prawn" to describe the aliens is a reference to the Parktown prawn, a king cricket species considered a pest in South Africa..and it was wild to see how many simply hated anything regarding that which is alien simply because it was "different"---and yet, no one ever stopped to consider the possibility that perhaps it wasn't the case that something deemed alien was meant to be hated before doing anything.

For those who are believers, the attitude is to be one of love/presenting the message of Christ...His salvation...and how He's to transform our actions in all things.

Thanks for sharing as you did

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I got the History Channel's Ancient Aliens series.

Since this is perhaps the first time I am kind of seriously looking at this stuff - I found the evidences that the Pyramids were built by technology that is not of the times as completely overwhelming.

And the precision of stone cutting techniques of these MASSIVE slabs (the way it was shown on History Channel) should convince anyone that there is really something going on that is extraordinary.

What is shown on the History Channel must always be taken with a grain of salt, as it's easy to allow certain things to trouble others that may not necessarily be the most accurate...and on History Channel, they've often left out ALOT of things when discussing their perspective on what the Bible indicates.

 

[day time]

I've wondered this as well ... what would happen to the average believer if ET's showed up on the scene, took credit for ancient mythology, prepared to peacefully lead us into a new future, weren't threatened by claims about Jesus/Zeus/Muhammad/Nephilim/insert-deity-here/etc. And I'm already very familiar with the Enochian accounts, as well as common conspiracy theories and this and that.

I don't think it's quite as "cut and dry" as "well .... motherships have arrived over Mexico City .... everyone drop their religious beliefs and embrace the ET creators now !" I might be a bit paranoid .... but at this stage in the game, I think it's much more subtlely sinister than that ....

I wonder if human beings are being prepared *physically* rather than mentally and emotionally. So much focus is given to what we know, or don't know ... and how we feel about it, or don't feel about it ... and yet, with each passing day, we are physically becoming more and more "synthetic" and "artificial". In our diets, our medical health, how we are medicated to perform/behave/societally trained. It's as though we are quite literally a new species ... some version of "homo sapien" that is more akin to a domesticated pet engineered by masters, rather than the original version of the wild animal. We struggle to find our identities, and our identities are so important to us ... because we are artificial and trying to figure out if we're really alive or not, like a robot becoming sapient and self aware.

If the Kingdom of God is within us ... I see no reason why the Kingdom of the Adversary won't attempt to manifest itself from within us first, and then to the outer world. As though we are pet conduits being created to house the spirits of the fallen ... and with the right type of lenses on, you can already see our society could be inundated with these "hybrids" running around as though they are mythical beings, powerful, elite, etc. It's irrelevant what we think we know to be true, if we are just hosts for the parasitic spirits to live out their fantasies through us in every way they can conceive. They can let us think whatever we want to think ... we will obey anyway because we will be filled with the Unholy Spirit. And so what if motherships land and aliens pop out ? Whether we submit or not is irrelevant ... we are quite possibly already their pets, fabricated and altered as they saw fit, in the image they desired.

If God is creating a new creature within us ... why wouldn't the angels/watchers/demons/Satan/etc attempt to do the same ?

I'm thinking out loud here .... and as I said, it is somewhat "conspiracy theory" minded ...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I've wondered this as well ... what would happen to the average believer if ET's showed up on the scene, took credit for ancient mythology, prepared to peacefully lead us into a new future, weren't threatened by claims about Jesus/Zeus/Muhammad/Nephilim/insert-deity-here/etc. And I'm already very familiar with the Enochian accounts, as well as common conspiracy theories and this and that.

I don't think it's quite as "cut and dry" as "well .... motherships have arrived over Mexico City .... everyone drop their religious beliefs and embrace the ET creators now !" I might be a bit paranoid .... but at this stage in the game, I think it's much more subtlely sinister than that ....

I wonder if human beings are being prepared *physically* rather than mentally and emotionally. So much focus is given to what we know, or don't know ... and how we feel about it, or don't feel about it ... and yet, with each passing day, we are physically becoming more and more "synthetic" and "artificial". In our diets, our medical health, how we are medicated to perform/behave/societally trained. It's as though we are quite literally a new species ... some version of "homo sapien" that is more akin to a domesticated pet engineered by masters, rather than the original version of the wild animal. We struggle to find our identities, and our identities are so important to us ... because we are artificial and trying to figure out if we're really alive or not, like a robot becoming sapient and self aware.

Wow..

Never considered seeing things from that perspective before, but how true it is that many are expecting to be taken by surprise by something from outside of ourselves that we can percieve...and yet not many of us are able to realize the physical battles occurring where there has been a substantial drive to transform humanity from the inside out---and this, by no means whatsoever, has been something very secret. There was an excellent documentary series I recently saw on that very subject, as seen here:

• Brave New World: Transhuman Part 1
• The Age of Transitions (full length documentary)
• TRANSHUMANISM Tom Horn Full Length IMPORTANT!
• TRANSHUMANISM (Full): Techno-eugenics for the neo-feudal age -- Tom Horn interview, by Alex Ansary

I've often been astounded at the ways that mankind has sought to improve himself, to the point that much of what's deemed as an "improvement" has greatly kept man from being natural in many respects...and indeed, as you say, synthetic/artificial and in a state of being that was not meant to be. Even in things such as the foods that man eats, much of it has been altered and there's a significant battle occurring over who will control it since many see the agenda to transform man---and in many ways, make him greatly limited in what he can do in the process..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

If the Kingdom of God is within us ... I see no reason why the Kingdom of the Adversary won't attempt to manifest itself from within us first, and then to the outer world. As though we are pet conduits being created to house the spirits of the fallen ... and with the right type of lenses on, you can already see our society could be inundated with these "hybrids" running around as though they are mythical beings, powerful, elite, etc. It's irrelevant what we think we know to be true, if we are just hosts for the parasitic spirits to live out their fantasies through us in every way they can conceive. They can let us think whatever we want to think ... we will obey anyway because we will be filled with the Unholy Spirit. And so what if motherships land and aliens pop out ? Whether we submit or not is irrelevant ... we are quite possibly already their pets, fabricated and altered as they saw fit, in the image they desired.

If considering some of the historical aspects of what the scriptures note on demonic spirits from the Fall/the Flood era and how many of them need to have vessels to operate, what you say makes even more sense....

Within Judaism, one people type of group discussed are the rephaim . Most generally, they are the dead kings or great warriors of antiquity. Sources within and outside the Bible confirm this identification. In the biblical case, however, the rephaim are related (literally) to the giant clans in the Old Testament. These clans are in turn identified as descendants of the nephilim (Gen 6:4), who were offspring of human women and divine beings (the sons of God). Many have often noted how demons are very much connected with those groups and that the spirits controlling men in the NT/giving them supernatural abilities (similar to what's seen within much UFO religion ) were those coming from the era when they were able to have free reign...and although those angels who bred with men are locked up, their offspring are disembodied and in need of vessels to operate their old agendas in. With the Nephilim, when a Nephilim giant was killed, the immaterial spirit of that Nephilim was considered a demon. This is the Second Temple explanation for the origin of demons. The disconnect here, though, is that the shedim of 1 Enoch were sentenced to roam the earth to harass humans. It is not clear they reside in the Abyss, but it does seem they can be there (but are not imprisoned there, like the original offending Watchers (sons of God) of Genesis 6. Rather, they are imprisoned in all the OT, NT and 2nd temple Jewish traditions

For more info/reference, one may wish to investigate places such as Things Old and New - Demons and Nephilim (as they had an excellent review on the subject)--or one can go to the following:

• Genesis, Goliath and Neandertal DNA
• Michael S. Heiser | Remnant of Giants
• Why Mylipin; / Myliypin; (Nephilim) - Michael S. Heiser
• Boyd and Heiser Dialogue On The Nephilim Question
• 
  The Naked Bible » Sheol: The OT “Bad Place”? - Michael S. Heiser
• Yahweh's War Against the Nephilim » Blog » Greg Boyd (Christus ...

In many ways, one can see it all taking place as a well-layered trap. For if the enemy can get others solely focused on what occurs outside of them and prepared for something such as a foreign invasion force, it can serve as a distraction for the ways that people are already being operated through for the Kingdom of Darkness...transforming gradually into the very thing that was desired by spiritual forces of wickedness all along while people were still getting prepared for an imaginary enemy that would never show up in the way that they planned. They are looking in preparation for something to come/try to transform them into a certain image when they don't realize that they've been slowly transforming into the very thing already..

If God is creating a new creature within us ... why wouldn't the angels/watchers/demons/Satan/etc attempt to do the same ?

I'm thinking out loud here .... and as I said, it is somewhat "conspiracy theory" minded

Powerful theory, IMHO (especially when considering the reality of how the enemy is always trying to counterfeit the Lord/copy Him Kingdom in establishing his own)....and many thanks for sharing it. For it all goes back to reminding of the need for believers to guard their spirit/focus:

Romans 6:13
Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.
Romans 6:12-14

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
Ephesians 6:17-19

2 Timothy 1:14
Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.
2 Timothy 1:13-15

Jude 1:19-21 / Jude 1
But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
​

 

[day time]

I'm gonna have to check out some of those links more in depth a bit later ... but thanx for responding ;~)

I could go on and on and on concerning this topic, but just to add two more quick cents:

I think what the average person who accepts the existence of supernatural entities (in whatever their terms and definitions are for them, including God, god(s), even supernatural humans ....) tends to think of those entities in one of two ways: as easily defined, recognized, controlled .... like some species that we study which we have dominion over and thus, is easily understand and dismissed by us. We can understand them easily whilst looking at them in a cage, or reading about them in a book. As though the spiritual entities are no different than other animals .... all lions do this and that, all squirrels do this and that, all demons do this and that, all angels do this and that, God will always do this and that. The "friendly" ones work for us, follow our commands, do our bidding .... are programmed to "serve" us and protect us. The "unfriendly" ones are dangerous, hostile, to be avoided at all costs.

But it's very much a *separate* existence concept. Like the difference between those who live in the city, verses those who would live in the wild and have to survive off the elements. You can view a pride of lions eating a water buffalo safely from your vehicle, but to get out and mingle with the lions could mean your quick demise. Or we can run and hide into our homes and shield ourselves from the elements ... or view captured species safely from outside the zoo cage.

It's this idea that we are *separate* from everything, that we are protected by either our society, our technology, or our denial. And that when our interactions with these supernatural entities does occur ... it's under predictable and controlled circumstances. However .... in *their* environment, predictability gets tossed out a window. Just as if you step into that pride of lions and risk being eaten alive ..... the same concept gets applied to the supernatural entities. "You go there, you risk exposing yourself to them ...."

But in my experience this is an ignorant and "stick my fingers in my ears and make it go away" view. Man is NOT the *only* intelligent creature that exists in the universe lol. Yes we recognize dolphins, apes, parrots, dogs, whatever .... as being "intelligent". But how many understand that God, the supernatural entities, etc ..... are intelligent and even more so. I mean ... truly ? People can picture demons as these snarling sulfuric creatures with no intellect, no society, no feelings, no free will. Or angels are these perfect creatures that do exactly as they are commanded. Even the "typical grey aliens" ..... all androgenous, all predictable. "They want to abduct and deceive" ... etc and so forth.

If you consider that at some point in history, we cohabited with other intelligent societies .... sub-species of human kind (i.e. Neanderthal and others, as you even link to) and that we mixed and mingled, interbreeding to the degree that non-African homo sapiens even have 1-4% of their DNA in common with this species .... and that the humans we recognize today coexisted with others VERSIONS of ourselves .... and you look at other supernatural entities and realize that we also CO EXIST WITH THEM .... in the same space, with our own wants, desires, societies, intelligence, feelings, thoughts, confusion, knowledge, growth, life, death, even what we call "love" .... did not the fallen Watchers claim to love their own offspring ? We do the same don't we ? We claim to love our own offspring ? etc ..... you begin to see that it is already all around you. There is no cage verses outside of the cage perhaps. There is no "city" verses "wild". There is no intelligent human and predictable and controlled animal called the demon, angel, God, etc.

Thus .... again .... the idea that some creature we call Watchers are going to just appear and we will have this clear division between good and evil, right and wrong, God's side and non-God's side ..... where does that exist within human beings ? Where does that exist within human beings and the other species of homo that we have co existed within ? Where does that exist within the Angelic realm where some choose to follow one types of society (the fallen) verses those who choose to follow their Creator ? Free will, choices, individual wants and desires all belonging to intelligent beings. When we begin to realize we have a lot in *common* with the entities, things aren't as clear, and divisions aren't as easy to distinguish. Especially if our own society is already a combination of their desires, their influence, their control, their wants and desires for their own selves, even out of their own sense of what they might call *love* for themselves. Crimes of passion invoke our sympathy, rather than our indignation. How many of us will end up being sympathetic to the cause of the fallen ones ?

If you consider that we coexist with other intelligent species who also have logic, rational thought, free will, are unique ... and vary in culture across their own kind, as we do .... this "veil" behind our own confidence in how to distinguish the "good guys from the bad guys" gets even more blurred and subtle, when everyone and everything that is even remotely similar to us essentially behaves in very similar to ways, and "choosing sides" isn't so cut and dry.

Like I said I could go and on .... I just wanted to toss in a couple of more cents about the "subtle" nature of such things, and how people are expecting things to be cut and dry, and predictable, and easily defined ... when it's not that simple. At least, not in my experience (which I'll spare the details lol) ....

Okay I'm off to work :~)

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'm gonna have to check out some of those links more in depth a bit later ... but thanx for responding ;~)

Whenever you get the chance, hope it blesses ya...

I could go on and on and on concerning this topic, but just to add two more quick cents:


I think what the average person who accepts the existence of supernatural entities (in whatever their terms and definitions are for them, including God, god(s), even supernatural humans ....) tends to think of those entities in one of two ways: as easily defined, recognized, controlled .... like some species that we study which we have dominion over and thus, is easily understand and dismissed by us. We can understand them easily whilst looking at them in a cage, or reading about them in a book. As though the spiritual entities are no different than other animals .... all lions do this and that, all squirrels do this and that, all demons do this and that, all angels do this and that, God will always do this and that. The "friendly" ones work for us, follow our commands, do our bidding .... are programmed to "serve" us and protect us. The "unfriendly" ones are dangerous, hostile, to be avoided at all costs.


But it's very much a *separate* existence concept. Like the difference between those who live in the city, verses those who would live in the wild and have to survive off the elements. You can view a pride of lions eating a water buffalo safely from your vehicle, but to get out and mingle with the lions could mean your quick demise. Or we can run and hide into our homes and shield ourselves from the elements ... or view captured species safely from outside the zoo cage.


It's this idea that we are *separate* from everything, that we are protected by either our society, our technology, or our denial. And that when our interactions with these supernatural entities does occur ... it's under predictable and controlled circumstances. However .... in *their* environment, predictability gets tossed out a window. Just as if you step into that pride of lions and risk being eaten alive ..... the same concept gets applied to the supernatural entities. "You go there, you risk exposing yourself to them ...."


But in my experience this is an ignorant and "stick my fingers in my ears and make it go away" view. Man is NOT the *only* intelligent creature that exists in the universe lol. Yes we recognize dolphins, apes, parrots, dogs, whatever .... as being "intelligent". But how many understand that God, the supernatural entities, etc ..... are intelligent and even more so. I mean ... truly ? People can picture demons as these snarling sulfuric creatures with no intellect, no society, no feelings, no free will. Or angels are these perfect creatures that do exactly as they are commanded. Even the "typical grey aliens" ..... all androgenous, all predictable. "They want to abduct and deceive" ... etc and so forth.


If you consider that at some point in history, we cohabited with other intelligent societies .... sub-species of human kind (i.e. Neanderthal and others, as you even link to) and that we mixed and mingled, interbreeding to the degree that non-African homo sapiens even have 1-4% of their DNA in common with this species .... and that the humans we recognize today coexisted with others VERSIONS of ourselves .... and you look at other supernatural entities and realize that we also CO EXIST WITH THEM .... in the same space, with our own wants, desires, societies, intelligence, feelings, thoughts, confusion, knowledge, growth, life, death, even what we call "love" .... did not the fallen Watchers claim to love their own offspring ? We do the same don't we ? We claim to love our own offspring ? etc ..... you begin to see that it is already all around you. There is no cage verses outside of the cage perhaps. There is no "city" verses "wild". There is no intelligent human and predictable and controlled animal called the demon, angel, God, etc.



Thus .... again .... the idea that some creature we call Watchers are going to just appear and we will have this clear division between good and evil, right and wrong, God's side and non-God's side ..... where does that exist within human beings ? Where does that exist within human beings and the other species of homo that we have co existed within ? Where does that exist within the Angelic realm where some choose to follow one types of society (the fallen) verses those who choose to follow their Creator ? Free will, choices, individual wants and desires all belonging to intelligent beings. When we begin to realize we have a lot in *common* with the entities, things aren't as clear, and divisions aren't as easy to distinguish. Especially if our own society is already a combination of their desires, their influence, their control, their wants and desires for their own selves, even out of their own sense of what they might call *love* for themselves. Crimes of passion invoke our sympathy, rather than our indignation. How many of us will end up being sympathetic to the cause of the fallen ones ?



If you consider that we coexist with other intelligent species who also have logic, rational thought, free will, are unique ... and vary in culture across their own kind, as we do .... this "veil" behind our own confidence in how to distinguish the "good guys from the bad guys" gets even more blurred and subtle, when everyone and everything that is even remotely similar to us essentially behaves in very similar to ways, and "choosing sides" isn't so cut and dry.

Real. It's one thing to examine something from a distance where it's somewhat contained, but to be up close/personal with it is another---and in trying to tame/control something or understand it, it's easy to forget that what one may be trying to comprehend can be just as complex (if not more so) than the one studying it. In regards to what you noted, I do think that even the descriptions of the angelic/supernatural beings in the scripture are only what man can handle since much of the Divine Realm is far too complex to know fully. And with many things, even as it concerns those who are defined in scriptures as doing wrong, it can be easy to forget where there can be complexity there as well. As the old saying goes, "The villian is always the hero in his own story"--and even for those in scripture deemed to be clearly in the wrong, they can have motivations/emotions and politics that others may not understand.....with them having intelligence and thinking (as humans do) that the sides they've chosen are the "right" ones to be on.

Ephesians 6 does give mention to the fact that there are differing levels/heirarchies within the heavenly realms, alongside other scriptures that seem to indicate where even the angels themselves have a world with politics/governance (i.e. rulers, princes, legions, etc)...although the lines seem to be more clearly defined for them. And it has been speculate that many deemed to be on the wrong side may have gotten there due to not getting involved with the Lord's side (i.e. having a "wait and see" mindset with who does or who doesn't win and then going with that.....or choosing to rebel even after seeing what occurred with Fallen angels), whereas others choose to be on the enemy side and yet for them they hate being with others on the bad side since they're out for themselves. Books such as This Present Darknessand Piercing the Darkness do an excellent job of discussing that reality..

Like I said I could go and on .... I just wanted to toss in a couple of more cents about the "subtle" nature of such things, and how people are expecting things to be cut and dry, and predictable, and easily defined ... when it's not that simple. At least, not in my experience (which I'll spare the details lol) ....

Okay I'm off to work :~)

Life is complex enough for people to make many categories where there is no room to warrant such--but if going off of the scriptures and noting those who are for evil and those for good, one can always trust in/go with that--even if it may not make as much sense initially and even if it can be difficult considering the motivations of others who may choose to do wrong.

Regardless of the motivation in choosing to mess up mankind/try to destroy it (be it in feeling slighted or trying to continue their agenda for the glorification of their kind or whatever other reason), if man is attacked, they are the enemy...and not our friends:

Rebuke the Devil- Angie and Debbi Winans​

 

[Optimax]

There are many statements that have been made in this thread that in my opinion totally ignore, either from ignorance or unbelief, about what scripture says about end time events. An awareness and believing what scripture says would totally erase any imagination that exalts itself against the knowledge of God.

I will only comment on the following statement.

"what would happen to the average believer if ET's showed up on the scene, took credit for ancient mythology, prepared to peacefully lead us into a new future"

The Bible clearly reveals that the one that will show up on the scene is called the anti christ and is a man inspired and "anointed" by the devil.

No where in scripture is mentioned a "visit" by aliens except by the devil and his bunch and how that "visit" happens is revealed. There is no doubt of the event nor how it ends because scripture reveals it.

When one understand and believes that the Name of Jesus is above all names in heaven, earth, and under the earth (by the way there are no other places)as given to every believer, one can walk among any den of "lions".

If one understands as scripture reveals that the devil walks about as a lion. Does not say the devil is a lion but as one. Also says the devil has to seek whom he may destroy. Whom the devil may destroy is the one who is in unbelief or ignorance about the mighty weapons of warfare that is available for our use if we are not ignorant of them or in unbelief.

Most Christians are totally unaware of this commandment given by Jesus.

1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
KJV

 

[Gxg (G²)]

There are many statements that have been made in this thread that in my opinion totally ignore, either from ignorance or unbelief, about what scripture says about end time events. An awareness and believing what scripture says would totally erase any imagination that exalts itself against the knowledge of God.

Interesting (though not surprising)--for you earlier claimed that you were done with the thread/what you deemed "imagination"

However I wont disturb your fantasy land imaginings any more.

Nonetheless, here you are again in the thread commenting. It may not be intended, but one saying they're done with something and then comes back can appear to be bravado/pretense ( Proverbs 21:29) .


That said, there is nothing within scripture that speaks against the concept/possibility of other life existing in the cosmos beyond humanity...and on the issue, End Times Events do not in any or shape say that alien life does not exist. If one assumes the premise that alien life is a myth/an "imagination" exalting itself against the Lord BEFORE even dealing with scripture, what they do is essentially begging the question.....and in condeming others who do not agree with their viewpoint, they become inconsistent. No one here does not believe that the End Times will be perilous, nor does anyone here not believe that Yeshua is the ONLY way to salvation and that He is Lord of all---coming to reign/return in the future upon Earth. Nonetheless, none of that speaks on whether alien life exists and how to renconcile that with the Scriptures....or considering the fact that the angelic/divine realm is essentially on another realm of "existence" already and could qualify for all accounts of what people in the secular realm have deemed "alien" encounters.

I will only comment on the following statement.


"what would happen to the average believer if ET's showed up on the scene, took credit for ancient mythology, prepared to peacefully lead us into a new future"


The Bible clearly reveals that the one that will show up on the scene is called the anti christ and is a man inspired and "anointed" by the devil.

No where in scripture is mentioned a "visit" by aliens

No where in scripture is NASA mentioned either, nor are development of vaccines, nuclear energy, airplanes and a host of other subjects that the Bible is SILENT on. Some things were discovered apart from scripture since the Word was never meant to be a playbook on ALL things in existence or within the realm of human experience. This is a basic reality when reading scripture, as it concerns the reality that scripture does not necessarily comment upon every aspect of existence there is to be known...and thus, to take what is apparent in scripture (i.e. the Anti-Christ coming, empowered by the Devil) and assume it automatically means anything deemed "alien" is demonic would be a logical fallacy.

except by the devil and his bunch and how that "visit" happens is revealed. There is no doubt of the event nor how it ends because scripture reveals it.

It is more than possible that there will be (As discussed by myself/MANY others in the thread) what's known as a UFO deception occurring in the End Times to take away the focus upon Christ and place it upon other beings as if they are the Savior....with men believing that aliens were the ones who created/sustained mankind rather than the Lord and not considering it could be fallen angels trying to get men to worship them as "gods" just as it was in antiquity. As said before, anyone familar with New Age theology can already see this occurring plainly when it comes to others actively seeking out alien life in the belief that they are the true spirit guides/enlightened ones and that all accounts of the Divine are simply "aliens" mistaken for dieties.

However, just because it's possible for the demonic to appear as "Aliens" does not mean that there is no such thing as "aliens."

When one understand and believes that the Name of Jesus is above all names in heaven, earth, and under the earth (by the way there are no other places)as given to every believer, one can walk among any den of "lions".

Indeed---and to note, there are differing levels of the heavens. 1st, 2nd and 3rd Heavens....

The first heaven is that of the sky above us - the atmosphere of the earth. The second heaven is the abode of the stars and earth - “space” as we know it. The third heaven, however, was always the abode of God Himself, “heaven” as we would use the phrase. This was a common conception in Paul’s time, and was a convenient way of describing things. Hence, Paul was caught up into the presence of God, into the “third heaven ( 2 Corinthians 12:2 )”

As said best elsewhere at CRVoice Institute:

Jews of that time did not have the scientific knowledge that we take for granted, so they did not think of the world in scientific terms or descriptions. Instead they attempted to conceptualize the world in terms of what they knew, and usually described it visually. So, when they conceived of the universe, they constructed a multi-layered world, sort of like a large onion composed of various layers with the physical world in which human beings lived at the center. These layers were called "firmament" or shamayim (heavens or sky) in the Old Testament or "heavens" in the New Testament era. There are many other non-Biblical books and writings that also describe these layers. This model was still in use in the Middle Ages (1400s AD) when Dante wrote of the various levels of heaven and hell.

Most often this model contained seven heavens but in a few writings there were only three layers. Even though the number of layers was different these models of the universe shared some common traits. The lowest heaven, the core of the "onion," is the visible physical world that all people can see. In most of these models the second heaven is composed of water, a great sea, a firmament dividing the earth from the heavenly beings. This water that surrounded the earth became a common symbol for chaos and disorder that threatened to engulf the world (cf. Gen 6; see Speaking the Language of Canaan for a discussion of the symbolism of the cosmic waters). So often, these waters were understood to be gathered to await the coming day of judgment when they would once again be loosed to destroy the unrighteous. However, the third heaven was beyond the sight of human beings. It was the dwelling place of God and his attendant heavenly beings whom he would send to protect Israel and the righteous. So when Paul claims to have seen the risen Christ he is describing his experience in terms that he, and others, would readily understand. In that cultural context, he would have assumed that God had taken him to the region where it was possible to see spiritual beings, and the risen Christ.

Understanding this takes nothing away from Paul’s own testimony of an encounter with God. It simply acknowledges that Paul was a child of his day, that he lived in a pre-scientific world that had its own views of expressing and depicting the makeup of the physical world. So Paul described his experiences in the only way that he had at hand. His point was not to tell us how many levels of heaven there might really be. His point was to tell us that he had powerfully encountered the presence of God, in fact that he had physically seen the risen Christ.
​

Ministers such as Randy Alcorn spoke on it best in his books In Light of Eternity: Perspectives on Heaven and "Heaven" ( as seen here and here )---and he has also spoken on the subject of what the scriptures say in regards to alien life/UFOs as well in a manner that (IMHO) seems to be very balanced. As he noted best (for a brief excerpt):

I’m familiar with the logic that says “This universe is so big there must be other intelligent beings out there,” but this is a completely secular evolutionary viewpoint. God created the universe to be as vast as it is, and it didn’t take Him any more effort to create a universe of this size than it would have to create a smaller universe. It required more creativity, but God is infinitely creative. The logic that claims there are so many planets that some of them must be inhabited is not valid logic.

The other side of this subject is that God has not revealed to us everything He has done. He could easily have created beings in other worlds and simply not told us. The Bible tells us about our world and God’s unfolding drama of redemption. Certainly we know if God created other creatures in some corner of the galaxy that were intelligent and sinned, Christ would not be re-crucified for them. The redemption purchased by his death and resurrection will redeem every inch of the entire universe.

Meanwhile, people ask the question, “What about supposed occurrences where people have seen or experienced aliens or UFOs?” I think many UFO sightings are simply matters of people not knowing what actually happened. I remember one time Nanci and I saw something unusual, and to this day we don’t know what it was. Perhaps it was some kind of Air Force plane with the ability to be a hover craft. Do we really think it was aliens? No.

Other times, I think we need to be reminded the Bible teaches there is an invisible world, and there are both righteous and unrighteous angelic beings. Is it possible for someone to see something that is paranormal—that is, supernatural? Could there be either a demon or a righteous angel involved? I think the answer is yes, it could be. There is simply no way to know without looking at the specific situation.

My mother, who was an extremely credible person, told me a story one time that was difficult and troubling to her. When she was a young woman, she and her friend saw a plane crash miles from where they were, but close enough that they saw the whole thing happen.

She and her friend—and they could not explain it—literally heard the pilot speaking as he was going down. They checked with each other, and both of them heard the exact same words. There is no possible way this could have been projected through any means—there was no natural explanation for it, yet they experienced it. Do I believe that happened? Yes, even though it may be scientifically impossible, meaning we don’t know how to explain it through scientific means.
Do paranormal things happen to people? Yes, they do sometimes. Is it sometimes demons? Is it sometimes righteous angels? Probably. Is it sometimes because people are on drugs? Or on medication? Is it sometimes a dream? Someone’s imagination? “Yes” is the answer to all these things.

Yet in the end, if it were announced there was a discovery that there were aliens in some corner of the universe who made contact with us, would it in any way undermine my faith in God’s Word? No, it would not. I would just think, Oh, apparently God did not tell us in His Word.

In the ages to come, in the New Heavens and the New Earth, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if the infinitely creative God did not go right on creating beings in other worlds. They wouldn’t necessarily be beings created in God’s image, and they wouldn’t necessarily be like us. They could be more intelligent, communicative animals. Who knows? God is capable of doing any of that, and I think we should not restrict our imaginations in this area. What we should do is be careful to guard our imaginations and test everything by God’s Word.

​

If one understands as scripture reveals that the devil walks about as a lion. Does not say the devil is a lion but as one. Also says the devil has to seek whom he may destroy. Whom the devil may destroy is the one who is in unbelief or ignorance about the mighty weapons of warfare that is available for our use if we are not ignorant of them or in unbelief.

Amen. When it comes to spiritual warfare, we've been equipped for battle and there's no need to let the enemy overtake us.

Most Christians are totally unaware of this commandment given by Jesus.

1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
KJV

Indeed---and the name of Christ is truly the most powerful name around.