rosenherman
Sparkly rainbow butterfly kitten
Okay, centuries of centuries (I got tired of trying to remember how many L's there are in milllllenia.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Have any of the creationists here done the following?
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sandwiches
Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.
Well, I took his "draw the line at saying the Bible is wrong" and subsequent silence as him agreeing with me but being unable to admit it out of principle, which is fine with me.
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Take my 1611 King James --- (I got more) --- just don't take my 1560 Geneva Bible --- please!
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Take my 1611 King James --- (I got more) --- just don't take my 1560 Geneva Bible --- please!
Don't you have a Gutenberg Bible I can take?
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Naraoia
Apprentice Biologist
Cell biologist, actually. Specialising in membrane structure and function.
Two, and two n-s
It still takes an awful lot of millennia, though, unless there's artificial selection involved.
Anyway, I see you understand the time aspect. Now that we've got that out of the way, I'd be really interested to see how you imagine a "bridge species".
I would also like to add that I'm not having a go at you. This is another one of those questions I've asked a zillion times and don't remember ever getting an answer to. But I'm genuinely interested.
When I look at the famous transitional fossils like Archaeopteryx or Tiktaalik, or a bunch of less famous ones*, I can plainly see why they are regarded as transitionals, if only at a very superficial level (I don't claim any expertise in anatomy beyond knowing the names of a few bones). Other people - you, I assume - obviously don't, and I want to see why.
Know thy enemy, or just basic human curiosity, take you pick
*The jaw/middle ear of Yanoconodon is a beautiful recent example (the relevant post is the first hit; for some reason the prudery filter censors part of the post's URL).
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Nathan Poe
Well-Known Member
You're living proof that it's a cinch, AV -- Say, "Goddidit," and there's nothing left to argue.
the only time you've ever embarassed yourself is when you've said anything except "Goddidit" -- which, admittedly, you do more and more frequently.
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Evolution has been proven. We have seen it happen, and base our entire knowledge of Biology on the FACT of evolution.
The theory explaining evolution is as close to being proven as science allows outside of mathematics. We continue to add to our knowledge of evolution, and thus, the theory expands, but by now, after 150 years of practical application of the theory, we can with good confidence say that the foundations of the theory are facts.
Creationism cannot be proven. It has already been disproven, so it cannot be true. Belief in creationism is reality-denial of the highest order. Christians and other religious people world-wide have begun to understand this, and most intelligent people now see the Bible as merely metaphorical morality stories. The few die-hards who have too much invested in their bronze-age myth will keep making a horrible fuzz about their ancient philosophies being cast out of our view of reality, but give it a few generations and rationality will rule.
@rosenherman: Please explain this... how can you claim
rosenherman said:
when you then go on to state
rosenherman said:
?
Did the course you took not explain evolution?
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This is such an example of the horrifyingly poor and inadequate sort of education that is offered in the public schools in the USA! Not that it isnt the responsibility of individuals to take care of themselves too. At least, it still is now.
But honestly, the dumbed down shallow useless kind of course work that people take is just scary, and its going to be the ruin of this nation. Now that I am a citizen it matters to me.
I wish every American would somehow go see how hard working the students in Korea, Japan, China, HK, Taiwan etc are, and see how serious lminded and hard working everyone is. i feel like the USA is a fat roast turkey just waiting to be carved up. Some of us suspect the carving up has already begun.
All the pride that people take in their ignorance and narrow mindedness now is not going to do them a darn bit of good, that is for sure.
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rosenherman
Sparkly rainbow butterfly kitten
That's the last time I read a textbook about evolution. I have read articles concerning evolution.
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Read a new textbook on evolution. You have misunderstood how it works, a common mistake among creationists.
Barring that, watch these youtube films:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q76jw0ZB9hA
YouTube - 7 -- The Theory of Evolution Made Easy (for schools)
Last edited:
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rosenherman
Sparkly rainbow butterfly kitten
If abiogenesis is not included in evolution, what is the difference between evolution and ID?
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Natural selection. It's in one of the videos I provided for you in my post above.
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Rosen sez....If abiogenesis is not included in evolution, what is the difference between evolution and ID?QUOTE/////////////////
And Hespera sez....
ID suggests that a supernatural power is responsible for designing and creating life.
Goddidit would be another way of saying it, I suppose.
Evolution describes how natural forces are responsible for life developing as it has. Those natural forces are well known. The mechanism whereby living things can respond to natural forces is well known. There is nothing theoretical about that.
The circumstances of life's origin are totally unknown. There is little in the way of data to use in a theory about it.
We do know a few things:
Life is here; so it started somehow.
large and complex organic molecules do form themselves spontaneously under certain circumstances
At a certain point in geological history life appears in the record
After that, it gets more varied and complex over time.
IF there is no god, AND he didnt do anything to start life, THEN life began spontaneously.
Some organic molecules forming and then replicating themselves seems easier and more believable -to me- than a supernatural being with total power and knowledge, existing eternally outside of time and space deciding to stir things up a bit and let microbes get started on earth.
That is how I see it.
And Hespera sez....
ID suggests that a supernatural power is responsible for designing and creating life.
Goddidit would be another way of saying it, I suppose.
Evolution describes how natural forces are responsible for life developing as it has. Those natural forces are well known. The mechanism whereby living things can respond to natural forces is well known. There is nothing theoretical about that.
The circumstances of life's origin are totally unknown. There is little in the way of data to use in a theory about it.
We do know a few things:
Life is here; so it started somehow.
large and complex organic molecules do form themselves spontaneously under certain circumstances
At a certain point in geological history life appears in the record
After that, it gets more varied and complex over time.
IF there is no god, AND he didnt do anything to start life, THEN life began spontaneously.
Some organic molecules forming and then replicating themselves seems easier and more believable -to me- than a supernatural being with total power and knowledge, existing eternally outside of time and space deciding to stir things up a bit and let microbes get started on earth.
That is how I see it.
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sandwiches
Mas sabe el diablo por viejo que por diablo.
To summarize: "Don't know. Don't care." Sounds AV's and just about every creationist's mantra.
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pgp_protector
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Wiccan_Child
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Like you go to bed at night worried that tomorrow, when you wake up, if the moon dilemma will be solved yet?
You go to bed, there are six different theories as to how we got our moon.
You wake up, there are six different theories as to how we got our moon.
And, in fact, the older you get, the more theories show up.
And I won't even mention abiogenesis.
In short, if you can sleep at night, don't try and convince me you're sick of our lack of caring.
Try that mirror, chief.
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