Does the bible teach that there is a hell of eternal torment for unbelievers?

[Tariki]

Yes, according to His word. You say there is no eternal punishment. The very word of God says there is.

GOD is right and all those against what HE SAYS are wrong.

Yep, heard the VERY SAME THING from a guy only a month ago, who claimed that the lost would be annihilated.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Revelation 14:9-11, NKJV

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Emphasis Added

 

[Timothew]

Yes, according to His word. You say there is no eternal punishment. The very word of God says there is.

Matthew 25:46
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.


GOD is right and all those against what HE SAYS are wrong.

Yes, God is right. However you are mistaken.

Death is an eternal punishment, so Matt 25:46 can't be used to justify your belief in eternal torture.

But the righteous (go off) to eternal life. And according to you the unrighteous also go of to eternal life being tortured.

You are correct that the destruction of Sodom and Gemorrah serve as an example. But you are incorrect that Sodom annd Gemorrah were not destroyed but kept alive forever being tortured. Sodom and Gemorrrah serve as an example of what happens to those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. They were destroyed. That's the example. If S&G were eternally tortured, then they would be an example of being eternally tortured.

 

[good brother]

Tim, why didn't you respond to this post from page 20? I will repost it for you. If you wish to have a discussion on a subject matter one must respond to another for a conversation.



Originally Posted by Timothew

Even in this, look at the verses you quoted. You say "enter into heaven blind", but that's not what Jesus said. Because of what you believe, you substituted in the words that you expected to see. This is actually very common. Jesus didn't say enter into heaven blind or with one hand.

I am so sorry for not spelling it out for you, Jesus said, "It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye (Being literally blind in at least one eye) than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell" Oh, and Jesus most certainly did say something about the cut off hand. He said, "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell." He most certainly said that it's better to enter into life (that is everlasting life in His heaven) with one hand than it is to go to hell (eternal separation from Him in fiery darkness where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched) with both hands.
​

He said "enter into LIFE", which actually supports what I've been saying.

Actually, He said, "enter the KINGDOM OF GOD with one eye" (Read verse 47) and not "enter into LIFE" like you said He said. Because of what you believe, you substituted in the words that you expected to see. This is actually very common.
​

I KNOW that you believe that "Spiritual Death" and "Physical Death" are not the same thing. Now I'm going to challenge you to tell me why you believe this, using the bible for support. If there were a verse that said "Spiritual Death is not the same thing as Physical Death" that would go a long way in convincing me.

Here's a passage that speaks of the second, spiritual death.
​

Revelatio 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Said by Jesus who is God)

If the spiritual death is just a physical death, then this verse means nothing.

In Christ, GB

P.S. I love how you failed to even broach the subject of the passage I quoted and talked about. If spiritual death is just another physical death and not an everlasting thing, why in the world would Jesus say that it's better to be drowned in the sea than to -what exactly? Would it be better for them to die on land? Would it be better for them to die playing hopscotch? Why would death by drowning be better than any other death? and what about the rest of the passage? Why does Jesus rattle on about it being better to go to heaven blind, maimed, and crippled than to go to hell in one piece if there is no hell?

 

[Whisper of Hope]

I think it would be wise for all professing Christians who participate in this thread to pray before they post any response here. Each Christian here should also remember and take heed that he or she represents Christ to the world as His witness and as His ambassador.

 

[Timothew]

Tim, why didn't you respond to this post from page 20?

I did respond.

Jesus is talking about entering into life.

You even responded to my reponse saying that you didn't like it.
After that there was not much more I could say, so I let it go.

 

[Timothew]

I think it would be wise for all professing Christians who participate in this thread to pray before they post any response here. Each Christian here should also remember and take heed that he or she represents Christ to the world as His witness and as His ambassador.

Thank you for the reminder. I will do that, and I will attempt to turn the other check when Zaac attacks.

 

[Zaac]

Yes, God is right. However you are mistaken.

I quoted the word. And last I checked, it's God's word that says there is eternal punishment. And it ain't going away. And no amount of Scripture rewriting will make it go away.

Death is an eternal punishment, so Matt 25:46 can't be used to justify your belief in eternal torture.

Death is death. Eternal punishment takes place in death. Folks should not presume to teach on that for which they clearly have formulated their own belief as opposed to getting God's understanding that aligns every aspect of His word.

But the righteous (go off) to eternal life. And according to you the unrighteous also go of to eternal life being tortured.

It's God's word. Take that up with Him.

You are correct that the destruction of Sodom and Gemorrah serve as an example. But you are incorrect that Sodom annd Gemorrah were not destroyed but kept alive forever being tortured.

Sodom and Gomorrah are cities. The people are living eternally in hell and will live eternally in the lake of fire.

Sodom and Gemorrrah serve as an example of what happens to those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. They were destroyed. That's the example. If S&G were eternally tortured, then they would be an example of being eternally tortured.

They are in hell being eternally punished.

 

[good brother]

I did respond.

Jesus is talking about entering into life.

You even responded to my reponse saying that you didn't like it.
After that there was not much more I could say, so I let it go.

No, Tim, you did not respond to the post I reposted. You need to look at it again. You accused me of inserting words into Scripture that I expected to see then you did the exact same thing. You also failed to ever reply to the part of my post about Jesus talking about someone who leads little ones astray and it being better for them to be drowned in the sea than to .... face what? Face a second literal death as you say or to face something else? Please reread it and reply again or direct me to the post that directly corresponds to the one I had just reposted. (P.S. I am talking about my post #195 on page 20)

Thank you.

In Christ, GB

 

[Timothew]

I quoted the word. And last I checked, it's God's word that says there is eternal punishment. And it ain't going away. And no amount of Scripture rewriting will make it go away.

I am not rewriting scripture. I agree that there is eternal punishment. I just disagree that the only possible punishment is eternal torture in hell. Death is also a punishment, and it is eternal.

Death is death. Eternal punishment takes place in death. Folks should not presume to teach on that for which they clearly have formulated their own belief as opposed to getting God's understanding that aligns every aspect of His word.

If you think folks should not presume to teach, then don't presume to teach. I've shown the scriptures that support my point.

It's God's word. Take that up with Him.

God's word does not say that the righteous go off to eternal life and the unrighteous also go off to eternal life.

Sodom and Gomorrah are cities. The people are living eternally in hell and will live eternally in the lake of fire.

Do you have any scriptures that support this claim?

They are in hell being eternally punished.[/quote]
According to you the people of Sodom and Gemorrah are in hell being eternally punished. Do you have any scriptures that support this claim?

 

[Timothew]

Actually, He said, "enter the KINGDOM OF GOD with one eye" (Read verse 47) and not "enter into LIFE" like you said He said.

Read verse 9:
And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

When you didn't accept that, I let it go. I don't want to convince you against your will.

 

[Tariki]

And as I said before, you're a buddhist on a Christian site yet you still reject Christ. Your ability to not discern the ONE TRUE GOD kinda makes your thoughts irrelevant when it comes to discernment about the things of God.

Sorry.

So you choose to avoid the issue once again. Keep hiding things from yourself.......

And really, given your posts here, your opinion on who may or may not have "rejected" Christ, and who may or may not have "discerned" the one true God, has very little significance for me.

Please stop taking yourself so seriously.

 

[someguy14]

Hi Tariki.

Do you believe in the words of Jesus?

 

[Timothew]

Let me throw this into the mix.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Thank you, that was actually my second point in the OP. I don't see how people can read this passage and still say that the punishment is everlasting torture in hell. The bible says right here that the punishment is destruction.

 

[Tariki]

Hi Tariki.

Do you believe in the words of Jesus?

Well, I could just say "which ones" and you could possibly say "all of them" and then this discussion could go on and on.

I do NOT believe that the Bible is the Word of God. For me it is a product of humanity, and as such can contain genuine intuitions of Reality-as-is.

I believe that "truth" is potentially in each and every moment.

End of story.

All the best.

 

[good brother]

Read verse 9:
And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

When you didn't accept that, I let it go. I don't want to convince you against your will.

Read verse 9 of the chapter I quoted or where? Here is verse 9 from Mark 9. It reads as follows:

9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead.
​

Verse 49 is closer to the passage I quoted but still does not explain what you are trying to say. Verse 47 PLAINLY states:

47 "And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell"
​

So could you please share with me where you are getting your verse from, and could you post it for me in it's entirety? Thanks.

What about what Jesus said about the whole "better to have a millstone tied around the neck of one who misleads than to"... face what? Will you please respond?

Thank you.

In Christ, GB

 

[visionary]

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Yep... destroyed and that total destruction last for ever...

 

[someguy14]

The bible says right here that the punishment is destruction.

everlasting destruction

Does it scare you, or are you trying to help those that don't believe in everlasting torment?

I don't think that rich man thought much about hell until he arrived in hell and looked over at Lazarus with Abraham in paradise. I wouldn't want anybody to avoid the caution of hell by telling them that there isn't a hell. I don't think you would want that either. None want to actually go to hell, though some serve the works of the devil. May God give us strength to do His will.

 

[Tariki]

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Yep... destroyed and that total destruction last for ever...

"taking vengeance" .......just love it!

 

[someguy14]

Well, I could just say "which ones" and you could possibly say "all of them" and then this discussion could go on and on.

I do NOT believe that the Bible is the Word of God. For me it is a product of humanity, and as such can contain genuine intuitions of Reality-as-is.

I believe that "truth" is potentially in each and every moment.

End of story.

All the best.

Thanks for replying.

Do you believe that God created humanity and all that is all?

Just looking for common ground.