Killing Children is Justified

[razeontherock]

Can you prove it was non-literal. Not trying to get at you in any way just interested in learning more.

However there are many other examples of massacres in the bible, as one contributor pointed out, for example the flood. I personally don't believe any of the bible is true, but assuming it is and these things happened, how can you say that God loves you?

The event can be both historic, and Prophetic. Many things in the Bible have layers of meaning.

Your query is THE most basic element of Christianity:

(Romans 11:22) "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

What, you thought He was joking when Jesus said "repent?"

 

[razeontherock]

First of all, you keep saying "children" in order to evoke an emotional response when the facts are that they were not children.

How do you know?

 

[razeontherock]

Even getting caught in the middle is no excuse. Everything is God's creation and he has the power of life and death over everything, then why not just have his intended targets die? Why the innocent bystanders?

You're talking about the flood. There were no innocent bystanders. Even some of those saved, were corrupt and should've been Judged.

The whole point here is God WILL Judge us, and it is real. Even when we don't like it. Not a difficult concept!

 

[Sophrosyne]

God did this? Book chapter verse please.



If you read the story that way it makes no sense. Why did the animals have to die? "All flesh was corrupted." The only left human, was Noah. Apparently his family was also corrupted, because we see Nephilim spring back up.

Debate with other Christians is against the rules of this forum section

 

[razeontherock]

Not debating. This info is directly pertinent to the OP's query, and will help him get his answers. He's plunged into some very difficult things, and doesn't know enough to navigate his way into understanding. He needs to see:

what was significant about Elisha's ministry at this time?
when God directly causes deaths, is it murder?
Details of other things, like has God singled out babies for punishment?

And in all of these answers, as he gets them on his own he will clearly see a pattern emerge, which is that God indeed will Judge us in righteousness; He will not wuss out due to being a benign marshmallow of sentimentality.

 

[jay1]

Yep, even if your claim that they were "little children" is true.
"so you believe that killing children is justified?


Looks like he did have the protection of God.
True that


First of all, you keep saying "children" in order to evoke an emotional response when the facts are that they were not children.

The Bible says "little children" where does it say they were not

Second, who said it's a "loving religion"? It includes love, but that isn't all it is.

Evidently

Yep. Seven little tax deductions.
Congratulations, how do you cope with 7, they must keep you busy.


No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't even like it if it happened to them for threatening to harm one of God's prophets, but I would understand that actions have consequences.



Being human and thinking allows me to say that it isn't. Now, why should we believe your opinion over mine? How does merely "being human and thinking" give you the authority to declare what is moral or immoral?

How does a book written by humans get the authority to declare morality?

Actually, the Bible says "thou shalt do no murder", not "thou shalt not kill".

depends on your edition

It's only a contradiction if you believe that "murder" includes capital punishment.

I do believe that but that would be another thread entirely

Yes, I really want to see you give examples. That's why I asked.
deuteronomy 3
Joshuah 6
Judges 21
Hosea 13:16
Psalmns 137:9

that should be enough to be going on with

Because it is God's Word and is necessary for understanding the New Testament.



And you base this on what?

It is immoral to kill children, ask anybody in the street.
Would you morally defend this BosNewsLife – Christian News Agency » Blog Archive » NEWS ALERT: Nigeria Militants Kill Children Of Christian Convert, Missionaries Say

Again, not children.
Again just going by the bible

Yes, God used the bears to kill the men and protect His prophet.



First of all, I'm not God.
Typo sorry

Second, how can God be a murderer when God has the authority to take life?

Doesn't mean that you can't discuss when he may have gone too far

Third, the misogyny charge is a new one. Do you have examples? Do you believe women are portrayed positively or negatively in the stories of Rahab, Deborah, Ruth and Esther, and the "Proverbs 31 Woman"?
-Genesis 3:16
Leviticus Chapter 12: 1-8
Deuteronomy 22:20-21:
1 Corinthians 14:34
[FONT=arial, Helvetica] 1 Corinthians 11
[/FONT][FONT=arial, Helvetica]1 Timothy chapter 2:

As to the women mentioned, good stories but these are isolated as opposed to the societal misogyny espoused by the bible. See above passages
[/FONT]

Consider his character illustrated, and you,, agreeing with killing children should consider your character illustrated

That doesn't explain what's wrong with it or why it's wrong, only that you think my opinion is wrong.

Children are defenceless and for an adult to abuse their position of greater strength and knowledge to murder a child is wrong. Is there a country in the world that allows the killing of children?

Children are also the next generation and to kill them can not help the society they live in. It will not help the survival of the society

So on a personal level it is wrong as there is no fairness in it and wrong societorially as it wil lead to the extinction of that society.

I have also evolved a sense of repugnance in regard to the killing of children. Why haven't you?



So, are you a good person or a bad person?

Probably neither but i try to be good

 

[jay1]

If you don't like my explanation of mocking God's prophets is akin to mocking him and death to children is not out of the question then you don't have to like it but it is the way back then.
Is God so fragile that he flies into a murderous rage everytime he is mocked, sounds more like a child having a tantrum than a god. Throughout history people have killed another because of insults and it was not called murder.
What was it called
I would say a group that calls God of the OT evil is not Christian therefore calling them so is invalid. There are many Christians that have problems reconciling the stark differences in the Old Testament with the New Testament but typically if you reflect that it is a change of covenants that changes the way God deals with man that is the difference.

So for you it is enough that God gave a new covenant that you can forgive murdering children, rape,genocide etc. Maybe Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden should have entered a new covenant and the christians would have forgiven them

 

[Sophrosyne]

Not debating. This info is directly pertinent to the OP's query, and will help him get his answers. He's plunged into some very difficult things, and doesn't know enough to navigate his way into understanding. He needs to see:

what was significant about Elisha's ministry at this time?
when God directly causes deaths, is it murder?
Details of other things, like has God singled out babies for punishment?

And in all of these answers, as he gets them on his own he will clearly see a pattern emerge, which is that God indeed will Judge us in righteousness; He will not wuss out due to being a benign marshmallow of sentimentality.

The OP seems more argumentative and combative than seeking answers. I don't recall the exact verse but in Samuel God ordered them to kill a group of people and not even let an animal survive it, other places in the bible I think hosea mention killing babies but it appears to be more prophetic and not necessarily pointing to God as who it actioning on it directly.

 

[jay1]

I think you misunderstand God's power. God is more powerful than any human, but if you think He can control every person like a puppet or that He wills all that happens into existence, you are definitely mistaken

But i thought God was all powerful are you saying he isn't?
. Sometimes, as awful as it is, in war there is collateral damage and the loss of innocent life. It is an unfortunate part of living in this world.
what war was going on ?
If you think God should have stepped in then and magically protected everyone then, then why not ask why He doesn't magically step in and stop every single death, rape and accident in this life?
Why doesn't he?
In your view, He can stop this but does not. So He is cruel. I don't think that is at all how things actually are. God's omnipotence is the cause of much confusion and slander. As a believer, I'd sooner concede that God is good and loving and not as "all-powerful" as some Christians put it and would like us to believe, than to believe He is able to magically stop every evil, yet does nothing and is therefore, evil and cruel.

So you're saying God is powerless to stop evil? Might be why armageddon has been delayed. He knows he'd lose against the devil.

Listen well: God is good.
Listen well: God is not as good as you think

If you can take nothing away from our discussion but one thing, remember that one statement please.

and to you

 

[jay1]

If God killed people for blasphemy, there would be no atheists today. So clearly this is false.

God's way is LOVE, not murder. That would be the devil, not God.

Please read the OT and come back and repeat that

 

[Sophrosyne]

So for you it is enough that God gave a new covenant that you can forgive murdering children, rape,genocide etc. Maybe Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden should have entered a new covenant and the christians would have forgiven them

God either forgives everything on the cross.... or nothing because to him one sin or 100 sins equals banishment from heaven. God forgave Saul of Tarsus who murdered Christians. If Saddam and Osama had repented and accepted Jesus they would be saved otherwise God is a liar. Shocking isn't it that God saves the worst there is?

 

[jay1]

I believe that Jesus died for my sin and choose to follow him, Christian is from "little Christ" which means people who want to be like Christ, I want to be like Christ and for many other reasons including this one I identify myself as a Christian, but being a good person is different, anyone can choose to be a good person and luckily many people are primary good. Not sure if that actually answered your question though.

I suppose in a way it did. Why do you want to be like Jesus and not just a good person?

 

[jay1]

Hi Jay,

Chapter 9 of Ezekiel is continuation of Ezekiel's vision that began in chapter 8. It is essential to understand the timing and what this vision means. Ezekiel was a prophet that was born around 622 bc and preached to Israel right before and during the Babylonian exile. The vision and its impending judgement described in chapter 9 depicts the Babylonian attack and destruction of Jerusalem in 586 bc and the horrors that the Jews would suffer because of their unbelief and wicked ways. The Babylonians inflicted the devastation not God although God foretold of the devastation through Ezekiel in chapter 7.

Hi Hentenza

But there are other instances, not restricted to this one, that are not visions.
If god had killed the children or other places in the bible where he did, do you support this?

 

[AgapeGrace]

I suppose in a way it did. Why do you want to be like Jesus and not just a good person?

There are lots of good people I know and respect and wish I was more like, but they aren't perfect and therefore cannot make the best role models, or at least that's how I see it. They also can't save me or take me to heaven like Jesus promises.

 

[razeontherock]

The OP seems more argumentative and combative than seeking answers.

You'll notice my responses have been carefully gauged to that expectation. If he really wants to seek answers, my responses will help him tremendously. If he either expects to be spoon-fed (which never helps an adult) or just argue for it's own sake ... pffft

I don't recall the exact verse but in Samuel God ordered them to kill a group of people and not even let an animal survive it, other places in the bible I think hosea mention killing babies but it appears to be more prophetic and not necessarily pointing to God as who it actioning on it directly.

Again, this is VERY relevant tot eh OP's concerns. In the first scenario, it was only little children that were spared; those who couldn't possibly be carrying on Nephilim DNA, to be anachronistic about it. In the "dashing little ones against the rocks," it is indeed not God Himself doing it, and it is actually a Spiritual application; again, taking up our own Cross, and following Him!

(Which does not mean it had no literal, physical, or historical application)

 

[razeontherock]

Please read the OT and come back and repeat that

Touche

 

[jay1]

There is a big difference between judging someone and finding them guilty and executing him than murdering someone outright. You have a big problem with explaining your idea of a loving God and dismissing Noah's ark. I see no way you can view God as not murdering almost everyone alive at that time unless you say God judged those people and sentenced them to death.

Surely to be judged correctly you should have the opportunity to defend yourself.

If your Government judged you in your absence then sentenced you to death, for you don't know what, would you consider this as being judged fairly?

 

[razeontherock]

If god had killed the children or other places in the bible where he did, do you support this?

Every so often someone gets stuck on this "support this" concept. It does not apply! How could we "support this," even if we wanted to? How could we do anything other than "support this," even if we wanted to?

Do you support gravity?

 

[jay1]

Guys,

Debate is not allowed in this forum. Please review the posting rules for this forum by following this link.

Thanks.

Can this be moved to somewhere debating is allowed please?

 

[razeontherock]

Surely to be judged correctly you should have the opportunity to defend yourself.

If your Government judged you in your absence then sentenced you to death, for you don't know what, would you consider this as being judged fairly?

1) You are pretending to be able to reduce God Almighty to the level of humans. You can't.

2) We each get our day in Court, no worries there ...