Does the bible teach that there is a hell of eternal torment for unbelievers?

[Timothew]

Ressurection.

Resurrection.

One word answers don't really say anything.

 

[Robban]

If you assume the soul can't die,
If you assume the soul is something separate that animates the body and leaves at death.
I don't think these things can be proven from the bible. (Which was the OP requirement, "does the bible teach...")

According to the bible, the soul can die, Ezekiel 18, the soul that sins will die. Also see Matthew 10:28.

You know you can read and study, read and study, and yet miss a word , or a couple, and then suddenly it will kind of csll your attention( ) kind of thing, well this happen to me the 20/6-11, I know the date because I have a copy of the e-mail. It was like this reading Ezekiel 18, I noticed that it said "the soul shall die", and I froze, then I said to myself something like, No, no, it can,t be possible, something like that.
So, what do I do, I mail a Rabbi, this is word for word how it went,-
My question,
What does it mean in Ezekiel 18:20, "The soul that sins, it shall die?"
Is it possible for a soul to die?
The answer I recieved was,
"Many times the Torah uses the term "soul" as a reference to a "person".
The soul as you said never dies, but the person dies".


Then there is, what is the soul and what is the spirit?
You as a Christian no doubt have your version,

Then there is that if my post has any thing to do with thread, I think it can be connected, yes.
I think that,s about it.

 

[Timothew]

You know you can read and study, read and study, and yet miss a word , or a couple, and then suddenly it will kind of csll your attention( ) kind of thing, well this happen to me the 20/6-11, I know the date because I have a copy of the e-mail. It was like this reading Ezekiel 18, I noticed that it said "the soul shall die", and I froze, then I said to myself something like, No, no, it can,t be possible, something like that.
So, what do I do, I mail a Rabbi, this is word for word how it went,-
My question,
What does it mean in Ezekiel 18:20, "The soul that sins, it shall die?"
Is it possible for a soul to die?
The answer I recieved was,
"Many times the Torah uses the term "soul" as a reference to a "person".
The soul as you said never dies, but the person dies".


Then there is, what is the soul and what is the spirit?
You as a Christian no doubt have your version,

Then there is that if my post has any thing to do with thread, I think it can be connected, yes.
I think that,s about it.

Many times the Torah uses the term "soul" as a reference to a "person". So think about it now. The Bible says the soul can die. You know that a person can die. Ezekiel said that the soul that sins will die. Here is how the NLT translates Ezekiel 18:4; The person who sins is the one who will die.

The soul, (Nephesh) is the person. Christian or Rabbi, we are both reading from Ezekiel, and that's what it says. But the Messiah says that we can have our sins forgiven. Ezekiel says this too, later on in the chapter. If a sinner turns away from his sin he will live. The Messiah said "repent for the kingdom of God is at hand." Same thing. Once our sins are forgiven, we can have eternal life from God.

 

[Timothew]

I'm not convinced eternal life is such a good thing to begin with.

It seems better than the alternative. Plus, we can have cookies!

 

[good brother]

As to the OP, let's take a look at that story Jesus told us about the rich man and Lazarus. Here is the totality of the story from Luke 16:

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.


22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”


​

I highlighted some key phrases that reveal a great many things about what ocurrs after death.

1. The story told happened at some time before the death of Jesus Christ.

2. The story is told as history as it named a person involved. Parables never have named characters as they are lessons to be applied to everyone.

3. Both men died at relatively the same time.

4. Lazarus went to the "bosom of Abraham".

5. The rich man went to Hades.

6. Jesus knew Lazarus by name even though Lazarus's "status" would suggest he would not be worth the time to know.

7. As Jesus told the story, He never mentioned the rich man's name.
(This could have been a reference to a coming time when Jesus will say, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!")

8. The passage tells us that the respective destinations of the two men were places of personal awareness and consciousness.

9. Lazarus appeared with Abraham in Paradise (assuming Paradise because Abraham was known for his faith).

10. The rich man was in a place of horrible torment which was very hot.

11. Neither place was escapeable. Unfortunately one was inescapeable torment.
​

From these very basic points drawn from the above text we can conclude that physical death is not the end of the unbeliever.

So, in answer to the OP of "Does the Bible teach that there is a hell of eternal torment for unbelievers?"

-The answer from Jesus is "Yes."

If that is the case, and the Bible says it is, then we as Christians NEED to share the gospel with everyone. ANd we need to do it NOW.

In Christ, GB

 

[Timothew]

As to the OP, let's take a look at that story Jesus told us about the rich man and Lazarus. Here is the totality of the story from Luke 16:

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.


22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”


​

I highlighted some key phrases that reveal a great many things about what ocurrs after death.

1. The story told happened at some time before the death of Jesus Christ.

2. The story is told as history as it named a person involved. Parables never have named characters as they are lessons to be applied to everyone.

3. Both men died at relatively the same time.

4. Lazarus went to the "bosom of Abraham".

5. The rich man went to Hades.

6. Jesus knew Lazarus by name even though Lazarus's "status" would suggest he would not be worth the time to know.

7. As Jesus told the story, He never mentioned the rich man's name.
(This could have been a reference to a coming time when Jesus will say, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!")

8. The passage tells us that the respective destinations of the two men were places of personal awareness and consciousness.

9. Lazarus appeared with Abraham in Paradise (assuming Paradise because Abraham was known for his faith).

10. The rich man was in a place of horrible torment which was very hot.

11. Neither place was escapeable. Unfortunately one was inescapeable torment.
​

From these very basic points drawn from the above text we can conclude that physical death is not the end of the unbeliever.

So, in answer to the OP of "Does the Bible teach that there is a hell of eternal torment for unbelievers?"

-The answer from Jesus is "Yes."

If that is the case, and the Bible says it is, then we as Christians NEED to share the gospel with everyone. ANd we need to do it NOW.

In Christ, GB

That was a parable, not a report on the conditions in hell. In the parable Jesus said that the rich man was in Hades anyway, not Hell. Are we abandoning Christianity for Greek Myths on the basis of one parable?
Also Christ said that the road is wide that leads to Destruction, and narrow is the way that leads to Life. So Jesus, when he wasn't telling a parable said that those who do not get eternal life are destroyed.

The answer from Jesus is No, they are not in eternal torment, they are destroyed instead. Jesus also said that who believes in him will not PERISH, but will have eternal life. So those who reject him will perish, not suffer eternal torment in hell.

 

[Robban]

Many times the Torah uses the term "soul" as a reference to a "person". So think about it now. The Bible says the soul can die. You know that a person can die. Ezekiel said that the soul that sins will die. Here is how the NLT translates Ezekiel 18:4; The person who sins is the one who will die.

The soul, (Nephesh) is the person. Christian or Rabbi, we are both reading from Ezekiel, and that's what it says. But the Messiah says that we can have our sins forgiven. Ezekiel says this too, later on in the chapter. If a sinner turns away from his sin he will live. The Messiah said "repent for the kingdom of God is at hand." Same thing. Once our sins are forgiven, we can have eternal life from God.

It,s that in Ezekiel it does not say someone else will die in your place, however, repent, that is what it is about when you get down to brass tacks, but I have no wish to compare the pros and cons of the Christian belief, because I don,t think it,s worth it, not for me anyway.
Actually, I,m here because of a reason, though it has become contagious being here so it is difficult to get away. But I must at some time.
I,ll not go into details, but way over 20yrs ago I married a Christian woman, I say no more about that exactly, it did not work out too well, I tried, went to her meetings and this that and the other, so anyway I moved away, far away, but we upheld contact,I came to this forum to try and get a handle on what is was about, if I had missed something along the way, I moved back to her a couple of years ago, but it was not a sucsess, so that was only short lived. That is why I try to see it from the Christian side of things, and though I,m sure most all are earnest in their belief, it just does not rub off on me, For me it is not quite right for you folks it is right, so there you have it.
I had never heard of any eternal flames until I came into contact with Christianity, thought they were talking about heartburn,so really that,s why I came here, and I,ve been here since, but as I said at sometime I reckon I will have to call it a day.

 

[Fireinfolding]

That was a parable, not a report on the conditions in hell. In the parable Jesus said that the rich man was in Hades anyway, not Hell. Are we abandoning Christianity for Greek Myths on the basis of one parable?
Also Christ said that the road is wide that leads to Destruction, and narrow is the way that leads to Life. So Jesus, when he wasn't telling a parable said that those who do not get eternal life are destroyed.

The answer from Jesus is No, they are not in eternal torment, they are destroyed instead. Jesus also said that who believes in him will not PERISH, but will have eternal life. So those who reject him will perish, not suffer eternal torment in hell.

One might ask Timothew the same word in the parable hades is used in Rev 20:13 where the dead are and yet delivered up from the same. However "there" it speaks of taking away the words of the prophecy of the book, if we'd diminish hades to nothing wouldnt we be taking away the words not just out of the parable itself but out of the book of revelation where it shows the same?

Because likewise, it doesnt show hades as eternal but after the dead are delivered up from itself the torment is shown in respects to that which also follows after. There doesnt seem room to budge, in other words.

Deleting hades from the parable, hades must be deleted out of revelation which requires us to take away from the words of that book (rather then just the parable alone) doesnt it?

 

[Timothew]

One might ask Timothew the same word in the parable hades is used in Rev 20:13 where the dead are and yet delivered up from the same. However "there" it speaks of taking away the words of the prophecy of the book, if we'd diminish hades to nothing wouldnt we be taking away the words not just out of the parable itself but out of the book of revelation where it shows the same?

Because likewise, it doesnt show hades as eternal but after the dead are delivered up from itself the torment is shown in respects to that which also follows after. There doesnt seem room to budge, in other words.

Deleting hades from the parable, hades must be deleted out of revelation which requires us to take away from the words of that book (rather then just the parable alone) doesnt it?

Not really, Jesus is allowed to talk about a mythological place called Hades in a parable, just as he is allowed to talk about a man who sows seeds on a road, in a ditch and on the rocks. Hades is the settling for the parable about not trusting in riches. When John uses Hades in The Book of Revelation, he is talking about Sheol, the place of the dead. Rev uses OT pictures. If it's taking away by not aking it literally, it must be adding to the words to insist that it is literal.

 

[good brother]

That was a parable, not a report on the conditions in hell. In the parable Jesus said that the rich man was in Hades anyway, not Hell. Are we abandoning Christianity for Greek Myths on the basis of one parable?
Also Christ said that the road is wide that leads to Destruction, and narrow is the way that leads to Life. So Jesus, when he wasn't telling a parable said that those who do not get eternal life are destroyed.

The answer from Jesus is No, they are not in eternal torment, they are destroyed instead. Jesus also said that who believes in him will not PERISH, but will have eternal life. So those who reject him will perish, not suffer eternal torment in hell.

Can you show me in the text where it says it's only a parable? I could not find that information when I read it.

Also, name another parable that gives a specific name (i.e. Lazarus) to a character in said parable. Thank you.

Also, it DOES seem to give the conditions of the place of residence for the rich man after his death.

he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

​

Apparently it DOES give the condition of the place of the unbeliever.


In Christ, GB

 

[Fireinfolding]

Not really, Jesus is allowed to talk about a mythological place called Hades in a parable, just as he is allowed to talk about a man who sows seeds on a road, in a ditch and on the rocks. Hades is the settling for the parable about not trusting in riches. When John uses Hades in The Book of Revelation, he is talking about Sheol, the place of the dead. Rev uses OT pictures. If it's taking away by not aking it literally, it must be adding to the words to insist that it is literal.

Its the same word exchange is what I was pointing out in both, as I pointed out the same on another thread we were both on. And the quote of Paul comes from the OT (Hebrew) where the NT (Greek) comparison can be made even though the words are different.

But we can just call it "candyland" for now (just so words dont get in the way).

The dead are shown in both the sea (which delivered up) and the dead are shown in both death and in hades (lets call it candyland) which delivered up the dead "in them" as well.

But John (you) dont believe is speaking literally that the dead are in hades (you say confirm as Sheol literally so ) but he cannot be speaking literally, although you confirm its literally Sheol?

See what I mean?

What might you be proposing? You must correct me if I am wrong but it sounds as close to saying Jesus (Who iwe know is the truth) is basically speaking a bunch of nonsense myths. One of which contains the place of this torment we'll call "candyland" (in contrast to) the comfort of Lazarus in (lets say) "wonderland", but this is really just for the fun of it? They would then amount to nothing more then Christ blowing no more then hot air in the gospels in form of a parables just because He could. See what I mean? Both died, one comforted the other tormented but the parable should basically seen as BS? There is absolutely no point to the parable (or any of the parables) even though he expounded to his disciples these very parables in private?

Catch how I am trying to hear what you are saying but what I catching how you might be adressing it?

Not trying to be argumentive (at all) you should know by now Im pretty reasonable and I dont want you to understand my post as a desire to argue with you. I might ask someone something once or twice and if I dont get an understandable response I will pretty much leave off of the conversation and not contend, I just dont have a clear understanding of what you mean, and how that could be perceived perhaps.

God bless you

 

[3rdHeaven]

I don't believe unbelievers go to hell. That would be reserved for people who do believe but refuse God deliberately.

Seriously, how can you send some one to hell for eternity if they never believed in it?

We have a couple of possibilities here.

1. There really are no unbelievers.

2. Or there really are some unbelievers.

If there really are some unbelievers upon death when they witness the Glory of God all around then and given an opportunity to come forth or depart they will become believers. Or perhaps they were created just to keep the eternal flames burning in hell?

 

[Tobias]

I don't believe unbelievers go to hell. That would be reserved for people who do believe but refuse God deliberately.

Seriously, how can you send some one to hell for eternity if they never believed in it?

We have a couple of possibilities here.

1. There really are no unbelievers.

2. Or there really are some unbelievers.

If there really are some unbelievers upon death when they witness the Glory of God all around then and given an opportunity to come forth or depart they will become believers. Or perhaps they were created just to keep the eternal flames burning in hell?

I think you are on to something.


Jesus ONLY preached to the Jews. People who were under covenant with God in the first place. Many of these people were full of despair. The religious leaders were setting the bar so high that to be considered "right" before God you had to be rich and/or extremely pious, and the Romans oppressed them to the point of revolution.

Few of these people believed they could do the works that were required to please God. And without faith, then pleasing Him is impossible. Jesus taught them that following God's Law was a lot simpler that the religious leaders would have them believe. In so doing, He gave them the keys to enter Paradise.

What was the condition of every other person on the planet, NOT under covenant with God? I don't recall the Bible ever saying that they all go down to eternal suffering in hell.

Jesus commissioned his apostles to go forth and spread the good news of the Kingdom. Not the bad news about hell! The good news of the Kingdom has to do with entry into Heaven for all those who believe. But I don't think the Bible ever specifies where the Gentiles go when they die, if they haven't heard and/or accepted the Good News.

 

[someguy14]

Resurrection.

One word answers don't really say anything.

Well, I'd disagree.
One has to actually believe in the ressurection to be a christian.

The topic is a train wreck though.
"Does the bible teach that there is a hell of eternal torment for unbelievers?"

You can read through Revelations for that answer. Whether you believe or not, that's where faith comes in. To have a relationship with God and trust Him for every word.

 

[someguy14]

I don't believe unbelievers go to hell. That would be reserved for people who do believe but refuse God deliberately.

John 12:46 thru 48
46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

.

 

[elopez]

Hi elopez, I just have a question for you, do you think being judged an eternal death sentence in the face of eternal life can be considered "punishment"? (Don't mind Mr Grumpy, he's obviously disillusioned about eternal life).

I don't see how it isn't unless you can explain how it is.

 

[elopez]

1 Kings 7:26 (KJV): And it was an hand breadth thick, and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies: it contained two thousand baths.

2 Chronicles 4:5 (KJV): And the thickness of it was an handbreadth, and the brim of it like the work of the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies; and it received and held three thousand baths.

There are actually two verbs in the Hebrew text in the 2 Chronicles passage and only one in the 1 Kings passage. The first verb is "received" and the other "held." The 'contradiction' is only there because the second verb isn't translated in the 2 Chronicles passage.

But since you use the correct translation from the KJV you actually just missed the obvious wording of the two texts. If you would have actually read 1 Kings is says that the molten sea contained 2,000 baths whereas the 2 Chronicles says it could receive and hold 3,000 baths, meaning it was only filled up two-thirds the way. It's like saying my gas can had 2 gallons in it but it could hold 5.

Thus, there is no 'contradiction.'
​

There's loads more, such as the different accounts of Jesus' resurrection (the women and angels at the grave in each Gospel account contradict each other), the people who accused Peter of being one of Jesus' disciples (again, there are a few different accounts in the Gospels that contradict each other), the manner of Judas's death (did he hang himself or stumble and burst, or a combination of both as Christians say?) - these are usually the main ones for me. Sure, some of them can be explained away as scribe errors (such as the number contradictions above), but this is the word of God we're talking about.

See, the load others are just as unreasonable and unfounded as the first one you mentioned, which is why I'm not going to waste my time responding to each and every one of them. The only error in coming to hear the word of God is that whoever is hearing it hears it wrong themselves, as has been shown with your first 'contradiction.'

Also, the fact that there are so many Protestant denominations all screaming they're the right one, proves there are enough contradictions (or enough ambiguity) in the Bible to cause such divisions.

Right, but you are neglecting the relevant similarities of each Protestant denomination, not to mention of every denomination of each Christian sect that unites them as brothers and sisters. Most agree that the differences are only small, and as a result don't cause such division.

The Bible, if not contradictory in some places, is a confused book jumbled together by people who should have edited it properly first.

Or the one who is reading the Bible is confused and jumbled when reading it. Forget about the authors editing it, why not start with actually reading it without some preconceived notion?

If this had been done there wouldn't be so much confusion in the church today over what to believe.

I don't even know what you mean here. What "Church" are you referring to and how are you now ignoring the rooted doctrine which establish the Church's belief?

This thread is a good example of the divisions caused by your unclear Bible; everyone has their own interpretation but no one can actually say they understand the Bible as God intended it. You expect non-believers to worship your God, yet you yourselves can't even agree on what we're supposed to believe.

Actually there are really only three competing views that are held in relation to Hell: the traditional view which says Hell is eternal, annihilationism which says the soul of the unrighteous ceases to exist after death, and universalism which believes all souls will be reconciled with God.

It could be that the Bible is clear, which it is in the case of Matthew 25:46, which means it is the one who is interpreting the text that does not understand. And I don't expect non believers to do anything.

I would rather keep this thread on topic, but you baited me into providing some contradictions. I expect you'll find some vague excuse for them (scribe errors as I already mentioned, or different witness perspectives in the case of the Gospels). The fact that there are errors in the Bible (such as the numerical ones described above) should make one, at the very least, wonder why God hasn't maintained the integrity of his own words throughout the centuries.

I guess that was the hook, then the line, and now the sinker as it was obvious that you misread and already had some preconceived notion of a few passages I already figured you'd quote as to argue some sort of contradiction. Vague excuse? Show how the reality of the text is "vague."

 

[earagun]

regardless if there is or if there isn't.........If you were to be wrong, which would make the most impact

 

[elopez]

Why does it matter to you?

It doesn't really I am just curious as to why one would ask a question he is already settled on and has asked about three, possibly more times in the past?

Or are you only trying to convince me that my horse is dead so that I give up and your horse wins the race by default? Does your side have so little support that you don't want the matter investigated?

If I didn't want the matter investigated I wouldn't be having this discussion. I'm not trying to convince you of anything really I'm just hoping for a reasonable explanation from your position.

You brought up Matthew 25:46 again, as if it would convince me now when it failed before, but I can tell you again why κόλασιν αἰώνιον does not mean "eternal torture in hell". κόλασιν (kolasin) means "a pruning", the word is formed from the word κολάζω (kolazo, cut off) which comes from kolos (dwarf). In this parable, those on the left are cut off eternally. Their lives are cut short. The effect of this is permanent, aionion. They can't have eternal life in torment because eternal life is what the OTHER group gets, the group on the right side. According to you the son of man says to the group on the right, "go off into eternal life" and then says to the group on the left "And you go off into eternal life too". That doesn't fit the parable.

Right, so according to this logic the word for "eternal" in relation to life also means to "cut off," since it is the same exact word used to describe both life and punishment. They are not two separate words. It is the same word eternal, just as you wouldn't say that the word "eternal" in relation to God in Romans 16:26 doesn't mean to cut off.

According to me Christ says the unrighteous to to eternal punishment and the righteous to eternal life. You just have troubles accepting that.

Also you have never made your case that being dead forever is a "temporary" punishment. How so? After you are dead forever, do you become alive again?

Actually I have made my case against this concept when we first even talked about this. I was never given a response. For your sake though I'll repeat it. Being dead forever is not even a type of punishment, let alone a "temporary" one. Punishment can only be afflicted upon something that exists, and as the soul ceases to exist after death, one could not experience punishment as a result of simply being dead.

 

[oi_antz]

Being dead forever is not even a type of punishment, let alone a "temporary" one. Punishment can only be afflicted upon something that exists, and as the soul ceases to exist after death, one could not experience punishment as a result of simply being dead.

Do you not believe that the lake of fire will consume the soul? How then is it considered death if the soul never dies?