Can We Break Or Bend Bible Rules In Certain Situations?

[JimB]

Differ the problem is making all the old testament laws as biblical laws as commandments when Jesus never said such and He is God ad did fulfill all laws and yet people want the old laws rather than Jeswus law of giving ALL to Him and others.

Its word twisting. Jesus law should never be twisted and bend and not obeyed. Full stop.

We all fall short but still we should never encourage people not to obey the Lord, and live 10 per cent lives etc etc etc..

I agree, but would never say that God's law (which Paul called holy, righteous, and good--so, be careful what you say about it ) was somehow a mistake and, though God imposed it on a entire nation, it was not really a reflection of Him and His will? The purpose of the law was to bring us to Christ, to show us that we could not save ourselves through our own efforts in trying to be good, but only by throwing oursleves in faith completely upon Him. Then, as we are submissive to the changes that relationship nurtures in us, we are changed from faith to faith, glory to glory.

~Jim

 

[11822]

First note that it is not the Laws but the Law. The Law is made up of written commands or which some are greater than others. Loving the Lord your God is the greatest command written in the Law.

Some will say loving God means you will keep His Law- but that is only partically true. If you love God you will keep His commands! At least you will try.

There is a difference between keeping God's Laws and keeping God's commands!

He is Lord of lords - that is to say He is your Lord. So you should treat Him that way. If He is your Lord, then you will listen to Him and do what He says to you!! And if you love Him, you will seek to hear His voice and want to do what you can for Him. And over and over the prophets of Old said, "Hear, O Isreal."

i agree.

 

[K2K]

Amen then give your whole life, love effort into being a Christian missionary full time all the time and obey the law of going to all the world with his message. That was jesus commandment to us and our Commission, it just takes faith to obey

It is not that Jesus has a law and God has a law, God is One.

The Lord said man must live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. He is the Great I Am so we should be expecting commands and intructions spoken to us regularly. He is also the same One who spoke to those who wrote down the words of the Bible, which has commands from God is them. We fulfill the commands in the Bible by listening to the One who spoke them and still speaks to us

In general we (Christians) have a command to go through out the entire world, but specfically I (a Christan) do not have a command to go through out the entire world.

You remember the parable of the faithful servants that were given cities? They were given cities not the whole world. If I percieve the command to the group as law to me, then I must try to be a fulltime missionary and try to get to all parts of the world before I die. That is of course silliness.


If every person was to be a full time missionary, then who builds the boats, to take them across the seas? Dedecating our lives to God and making Him Lord of our lives does not mean we all travel though out the world. Have you not read that there are different parts of the body of Christ?

He may have said to the group, go through out the entire world and preach the gospel, but He tells one person to go here and do this and another to go there and do that. So all of us need to listen for the instructions that He has for us.

So we don't all become a full time missionary and take off to places unknown without actually hearing from Him!!! That is not living by every word that comes out of His mouth.

We don't "obey the law", no matter what you think the law is. We 'obey the Lord'! That is to say; we live by listening to our Lord who talks to us, and by doing that we fulfill the Law of God.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Amen then give your whole life, love effort into being a Christian missionary full time all the time and obey the law of going to all the world with his message. That was jesus commandment to us and our Commission, it just takes faith to obey

What makes you think that I have not or am not already doing this? Each of us are called by God to act in different ways in accomplishing His command to "go". Faith and obedience to God is not limited to only what you can think up. I have been overseas sharing the gospel, and now HE has me in the states sharing the gospel. Wherever I am is the mission field. I am a full time believer, are you?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Rom_12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Mat_6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Mat_8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

These scriptures do not support your opinion that God gives different levels of faith.

Romans 12:3 says He's given each a measure. It does not say He's given some more than others. Jesus said all we needed was a grain of mustard seed faith so that is what we are given to start with.

Romans 12:3 the "proportion" of faith is what comes after the grain of mustard seed. Some have built their faith from mustard seed size to peach seed size. This scripture does not say that God hands out different portions. It does imply though, that the mustard seed size faith can grow...that of course would make it a different proportion. God is not a respecter of persons.
​

"O ye of little faith"?
"I have not found so great faith"?

How in the world do you see these two scriptures as proof that God hands out different levels of faith to each person? What they do show is that there is a potential to start out with little faith and grow to great faith.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Tatoos are externa; and not of the heart. There is no law in Jesus laws that prevents one from having tatoos the Lord looks at the heart.

What do tatoos have to do with the heart and soul.

If we actually put on the mind of Christ we would never want them.

 

[JimB]

Tatoos are externa; and not of the heart. There is no law in Jesus laws that prevents one from having tatoos the Lord looks at the heart.

What do tatoos have to do with the heart and soul.

If we actually put on the mind of Christ we would never want them.

Sez who? I have put on Christ and wear Him daily and, personally, I wouldn't mind having a tattoo. I'm just too chicken.

~Jim

 

[11822]

These scriptures do not support your opinion that God gives different levels of faith.

Romans 12:3 says He's given each a measure. It does not say He's given some more than others. Jesus said all we needed was a grain of mustard seed faith so that is what we are given to start with.

Romans 12:3 the "proportion" of faith is what comes after the grain of mustard seed. Some have built their faith from mustard seed size to peach seed size. This scripture does not say that God hands out different portions. It does imply though, that the mustard seed size faith can grow...that of course would make it a different proportion. God is not a respecter of persons.
​

"O ye of little faith"?
"I have not found so great faith"?

How in the world do you see these two scriptures as proof that God hands out different levels of faith to each person? What they do show is that there is a potential to start out with little faith and grow to great faith.

And who gives the faith in the firsts place, and who increases that faith?

 

[New_Wineskin]

Sez who? I have put on Christ and wear Him daily and, personally, I wouldn't mind having a tattoo. I'm just too chicken.

~Jim

I am with you except that I do not like to be showy AND I am just too chicken .

 

[TasManOfGod]

Sez who? I have put on Christ and wear Him daily and, personally, I wouldn't mind having a tattoo. I'm just too chicken.

~Jim

If you DID put on Christ you would have no fear about anything

 

[11822]

If you DID put on Christ you would have no fear about anything

What about Godly fear?

 

[JimB]

What about Godly fear?

FYI, the NASV, NIV, ESV, and NLT translate the KJV phrase "godly fear" in Hebrews 12.28 as "awe." So TasMan was right.

~Jim

 

[11822]

FYI, the NASV, NIV, ESV, and NLT translate the KJV phrase "godly fear" in Hebrews 12.28 as "awe." So TasMan was right.

~Jim

Its possible that the word fear may be mistranslated. However, even the apostles would fear when in the presence of angels or the Lord. Its natural i must assume. But Grace doesn't allow fear to remain. Fear not.

 

[11822]

And also Godly fear is mentioned throughout the KJV NT, so i wonder if it always means "awe" when Godly fear is mentioned. Someone said something that makes sense, they said that love cast out ungodly fear, but not Godly fear. Who knows. Hope battles and trumps fear anyway. I aint skeered...most of the time

 

[Davidjayjordan]

10 percent is better than nothing. Some people don't give God one red cent. And how many people actually sell all they own? Not many. Peter told Ananias and Sapphira that it was their money and that they didn't need to lie about it, it was theirs to give or keep. God might be happy with that 10 percent, it keeps the Gospel message rolling and feeds the poor.

Read the whole BOOK of Acys again and especially the beginnings, as every new disciple was required to give up all as in everything, all money, careers, everything and were suppose to follow the Lord to the ends of the Earth as Jesus told them.

Tithes was not an option, one percent was not an option, all the way in or nothing and not pretense was allowed, no holding back. Therefore the Lord killed Anniaias and Shapira for lying and pretending to give all when they weren;t, everyone else had given all so new converts were exptected to the same...

Jesus law was giving ALL....... Old Testament law was external partial pretense service.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

And who gives the faith in the firsts place, and who increases that faith?

I don't deny the "Who". Whatever we sow we reap. That is how God created things to work. We sow on the measure of faith that God deals and it grows.

2 Cor. 9:6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.

​

While this scripture in it's context is talking about giving, the principle is applied to all that we do. If we sow sparingly on our measure of faith, then we will reap sparingly (little faith). If we sow generously toward our measure of faith, then it will reap generously (great faith). That's how God set things up to work. We step out in the faith that we have and God has pre-set that faith to grow.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

And also Godly fear is mentioned throughout the KJV NT, so i wonder if it always means "awe" when Godly fear is mentioned. Someone said something that makes sense, they said that love cast out ungodly fear, but not Godly fear. Who knows. Hope battles and trumps fear anyway. I aint skeered...most of the time

True but in a different way than you are thinking... Fear then meant fear of dying by the hand of the Lord just as today if we disobey. Nothing has changed.

But with faith, you give up ALL and forget about your worldly careers and aspirations, you drop your fear of starvation etc... and just follow the Lord 100 per cent all the time, everywhere for all time.

Christians were full timers not part timers and knew the fear of God. For if they stepped out of line, they had seen what happenns to them. They had no fear of those that were trying to kill them but fear of the Lord if they blatantly purposedly lied and cheated and tricked. Full service meant full service..... or don;t join.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

I don't deny the "Who". Whatever we sow we reap. That is how God created things to work. We sow on the measure of faith that God deals and it grows.

2 Cor. 9:6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.

​

While this scripture in it's context is talking about giving, the principle is applied to all that we do. If we sow sparingly on our measure of faith, then we will reap sparingly (little faith). If we sow generously toward our measure of faith, then it will reap generously (great faith). That's how God set things up to work. We step out in the faith that we have and God has pre-set that faith to grow.

But that's not now it worked with the true Early Christians, after they got saved and filled, they were asked to join or wanted to join and then were expected to give up ALL and serve all the time for the Lord.

While the iron was hot, while salvation and liberation was ringing in their hearts and minds, they just joined by FAITH because Jesus saved them and they owed him EVERYTHING. It was not a little faith HERE and a little growth THERE, but BOOM and found the Lord and I am going to serve the MASTER with my whole life.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

FYI, the NASV, NIV, ESV, and NLT translate the KJV phrase "godly fear" in Hebrews 12.28 as "awe." So TasMan was right.

~Jim

Godly fear is fear of God, fear of the Lord's judgments on you if you disobey. He make take away things from you, He may tale away your health, He may take away your life, like He did Annias and Saphira.

You don;t mess with the Lord and play games with the Lord, you better respect Him and obey Him, if you are called by HIS NAME...he takes life and the loss of life very seriously. As in the past so in the present and future. The Lord doesn;t change, and it surely is not semantics.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

It is not that Jesus has a law and God has a law, God is One.

The Lord said man must live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. He is the Great I Am so we should be expecting commands and intructions spoken to us regularly. He is also the same One who spoke to those who wrote down the words of the Bible, which has commands from God is them. We fulfill the commands in the Bible by listening to the One who spoke them and still speaks to us

In general we (Christians) have a command to go through out the entire world, but specfically I (a Christan) do not have a command to go through out the entire world.

You remember the parable of the faithful servants that were given cities? They were given cities not the whole world. If I percieve the command to the group as law to me, then I must try to be a fulltime missionary and try to get to all parts of the world before I die. That is of course silliness.


If every person was to be a full time missionary, then who builds the boats, to take them across the seas? Dedecating our lives to God and making Him Lord of our lives does not mean we all travel though out the world. Have you not read that there are different parts of the body of Christ?

He may have said to the group, go through out the entire world and preach the gospel, but He tells one person to go here and do this and another to go there and do that. So all of us need to listen for the instructions that He has for us.

So we don't all become a full time missionary and take off to places unknown without actually hearing from Him!!! That is not living by every word that comes out of His mouth.

We don't "obey the law", no matter what you think the law is. We 'obey the Lord'! That is to say; we live by listening to our Lord who talks to us, and by doing that we fulfill the Law of God.

I differ, as the Lord told us all to go into all the world and tell others about HIM. Those in our own neighbourhood, usually will not receive the message from us, if we have given all and have left everything for Him and are living totally by FAITH as He instructed us to do, people in other countries or neighborhoods listen to our message a whole lot more Ezekiel 2,3,4.

Obeying the law is obeying the commandments of Jesus. Jews can obey the old law if they choose to be Jewish and obey rabbi's and their Torah. But Christians, obey CHRIST IMO.