Can We Break Or Bend Bible Rules In Certain Situations?

[Davidjayjordan]

I see it differently. If Jesus had broken the Law then he would have been a sinner, "for sin is the trangression of the law" (1 John 3.4). In fact, Christ had to keep the Law perfectly in order to be sinless: "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all" (James 2.10).

~Jim

Differ greatly Jim...

Jesus lived in love and gave all, and that's His Law. We are suppose to follow His Law of Love to the Hilt and all the time and with all our lives, heart, soul, mind and body and go to the ends of the world telling people about Him. That is the law.

He did it and expects us to do exactly the same. Whereas most jot and title people consider the law the 10 or 585, or 1000 of customs and traditions the law.

Jesus never sinned even though He broke the old laws that were meant to bring people to the new law of the heart and all their lives, as HIS DISCIPLES and FOLLOWERS.

Jesus is greater than the laws that never make anyone righteous, but do make the self righteous think they are better than others and NOT in need of the Saviour's RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Everyone is a sinner, before and after Jesus, and all we can do is accept His Righteousness and walk after Him as He leads, and yet we still are sinners just as the ones we are trying to reach with His LOVE,

The church people bend the law of giving all and denying themselves all the time because they are taught that little laws dictate their righteousness and not their heart soul, mind and whole lives all the time and all their WILL.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

The original question is poorly phrased, as most people disagree on what the rules of the Bible are.

But the simple straight forward answer is NO, we are not to intentionally sin. We are to follow the Lord to the ends of the earth and obey His voice at all times, by His Grace and Strength.

We are suppose to know the Lord and have a LINK to the Lord and be able to HEAR from the Lord in tight situations, and OBEY.

Its not an easy black and white legalistic approach, but from the heart and through the Spirit.

Are we to kill, Not usually but YES when someone is trying to kill you or your family etc.... stop them, smite them, and you may have to kill them. But generally NO, we do not join up in gangs to kill other citizens and other nationalities all for the sake of pride and greed, and nationalism.

That would be bending the spirit of the law, and would be a sin.

Tell the truth.... Yes, usually but not all the time. You do not tell your inquisitors where your family is hiding, so they can kill them. You fein insanity etc... or tell outright lies to give them a chance to escape.

Use discernment, follow the Lord. Know the general rules, and then HEAR from the Lord and have a vast wealth of experience in knowing what is right and wrong and when and how and with whom etc etc etc etc etc....

Legalism is easily circumvented, but the law of the heart in what jesus is actually telling us, Jesus knows and expects us to obey and follow and do.

It depends whether we are obeying for pride sake and being seen as goody goodies or whether we love the Lord and just want to put Him first.

Allow me to start a new thread on Scribes and Pharisees obeying the law.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

Can't figure out how to start a new thread, so shall post again HERE,

Do Scribes and Pharisee keep the Law ?

Answer Yes, they keep all the law or at least pretend to do so.

Are they liars, Yes, Jesus called them such, Mathew 23. John 8.... as their father was and is the devil.

Were they killers, Well they didn;t run around killing people, but Yes, they got Jesus killed, and killed all the propehst as Jesus said.... and they killed people spriitually. But did they consider themselves killers... NO.

Were they Thieves, Jesus said so, but they thought they obeyed THOU SHALT NOT STEAL. But Jesus said they gave long prayers and stole from widows and the homeless and the poor. Hmmm sounds like those that pray for the devastation of other countries, to make their women widows and steal their resources.

So does keeping the law or multitude of laws ensure we are of the Lord and godly and good. Or is there a greater law, that no one can circurvent. Is their a standard that can only be kept by the power of the Lord's Strength and Grace and not by our own.

If we can do it on our own, then Chruist died in vain and we should be obeying the law like the scribes and pharisees and bringing more HELL on Earth.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

The only reason I ask this is because of what Jesus said about David and his men on the Sabbath, when they were starving.

Is it fair to say that IF the Sabbath was made for man, as and when required, in times of neccesity, God allows us via his MERCY to Bend or even break the "rules" a bit.

Any thoughts and other examples come to mind ?

Cheers gang.

God's law says, "keep the Sabbath holy" and that one is not supposed to do any work on the Sabbath. However, God's law also says "if your neighbors cow falls into a ditch on the Sabbath, you are to help your neighbor get the cow out of the ditch". David did not break the Sabbath rule because he understood the greater rule....life is most important to God.

Another example would be when the disciples went through the field on the Sabbath picking and eating the grain. The law allowed for such. Those who tried to accuse them knew about it too, but just like some of us only tell half the story just to try and get our way.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Can't figure out how to start a new thread, so shall post again HERE,

Do Scribes and Pharisee keep the Law ?

Answer Yes, they keep all the law or at least pretend to do so.

Are they liars, Yes, Jesus called them such, Mathew 23. John 8.... as their father was and is the devil.

Were they killers, Well they didn;t run around killing people, but Yes, they got Jesus killed, and killed all the propehst as Jesus said.... and they killed people spriitually. But did they consider themselves killers... NO.

Were they Thieves, Jesus said so, but they thought they obeyed THOU SHALT NOT STEAL. But Jesus said they gave long prayers and stole from widows and the homeless and the poor. Hmmm sounds like those that pray for the devastation of other countries, to make their women widows and steal their resources.

So does keeping the law or multitude of laws ensure we are of the Lord and godly and good. Or is there a greater law, that no one can circurvent. Is their a standard that can only be kept by the power of the Lord's Strength and Grace and not by our own.

If we can do it on our own, then Chruist died in vain and we should be obeying the law like the scribes and pharisees and bringing more HELL on Earth.

Not all scribes and pharasees fall into this. Jesus had plenty of followers from the scribe and pharasee camp. The one's who were trying to trip Him are the one's HE called liars, not the one's who were followers. They of course did not stop obeying what scripture says however, through their time spent with Jesus they learned how to correctly apply it.

 

[JimB]

Differ greatly Jim...

Jesus lived in love and gave all, and that's His Law. We are suppose to follow His Law of Love to the Hilt and all the time and with all our lives, heart, soul, mind and body and go to the ends of the world telling people about Him. That is the law.

He did it and expects us to do exactly the same. Whereas most jot and title people consider the law the 10 or 585, or 1000 of customs and traditions the law.

Jesus never sinned even though He broke the old laws that were meant to bring people to the new law of the heart and all their lives, as HIS DISCIPLES and FOLLOWERS.

Jesus is greater than the laws that never make anyone righteous, but do make the self righteous think they are better than others and NOT in need of the Saviour's RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Everyone is a sinner, before and after Jesus, and all we can do is accept His Righteousness and walk after Him as He leads, and yet we still are sinners just as the ones we are trying to reach with His LOVE,

The church people bend the law of giving all and denying themselves all the time because they are taught that little laws dictate their righteousness and not their heart soul, mind and whole lives all the time and all their WILL.

And I respectfully differ greatly with you, David.

Paul (the Apostle, not the Beatle) said that the Law was holy, righteous, and good (Rom. 7.12). I hear you saying the Law was less than holy, more a divine mistake. In my understanding of fundamental Christian teaching is that Jesus did not disobey the holy, righteous, and good Law of God, although He deliberately ran afoul of the commandments and traditions of men (those misinterpretations of the Law and rules laid down by the Pharisees and scribes) that had built up around God’s holy, righteous and good Law.

The Law, rightly understood and practiced (the spirit and not the letter) is what got Jesus in trouble with the religious leaders of the day. Jesus came to fulfill the Law, not reject it. Before Christ could institute his new covenant (contract) the demands of the old covenant had to be fulfilled. He fulfilled it (perfectly, as a man, made under the Law, Gal. 4.4-5), and thus ended it (Rom. 10.4), and instituted a new covenant (Heb. 9.15) of grace based on faith, not works. He could not have ended the Law without fulfilling it.

~Jim

 

[11822]

We can.

However it is not profitable to do so.

The way of the transgressor is hard.

What we sow we reap.

God is not mocked.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[11822]

Whoa!! Jesus did not break the Law; rather, He broke the "traditions of the elders" that had built up around the Law. He violated their interpretation of the law, not the law itself. He came to demonstrate and teach the "spirit" of the law, not the "letter," because the spirit gives life but the letter kills. Ergo, Jesus kept the Law more perfectly than even the elders.

~Jim

Ain't that the truth.

 

[11822]

God's law says, "keep the Sabbath holy" and that one is not supposed to do any work on the Sabbath. However, God's law also says "if your neighbors cow falls into a ditch on the Sabbath, you are to help your neighbor get the cow out of the ditch". David did not break the Sabbath rule because he understood the greater rule....life is most important to God.

Another example would be when the disciples went through the field on the Sabbath picking and eating the grain. The law allowed for such. Those who tried to accuse them knew about it too, but just like some of us only tell half the story just to try and get our way.

I agree, i think people misunderstood the Sabbath. I think maybe God only gave it because of His love for man, but people thought of it as a Law rather than a blessing. The law is not made for us to become righteous, its so we won't hurt each other. If we obey Law to become righteous we are obeying a lie, because only faith in Christ can make us righteous. But its not a sin to observe law as some seem to think. Self righteousness is a sin. And putting our misunderstanding of the law before love is an indicator that we misunderstand that law. But observing the law is not sin.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

~Jim[/quote]

Yes we totally differ, as I would say the law never made anyone righteous and all have failed to love up to the law. ONLY JESUS fulfilled the law, no one else can ever fulfill the law......The law was meant to make us fail. And show us we are sinners, but the law keepers think they are holy and righteous which is why the law keepers plotted to kill Jesus and did kill Jesus.

We need to worship the Lord rather than the law and law keeping.

Jesus fulfills the law when we have His love in us. He gets the credit and not us. We walk in love and follow him to the ends of the world giving all, and not just walking around trying not to do this or that, but winning the world for Jesus. The law does not empower, Jesus does. The law makes one self righteous and proud, whereas Jesus makes one humble and loving and helpful to all.

Law keeping seprates us from others in hierarchicaL SUPPOSED GOODNESS AND SUPERIORITY. Whereas Jesus love blends us together in grACE AND hIS mERCY BECAUSE WE ARE ALL THE SAME. All as in all.

We do not get holier and holier and purer and purer, but more and more humble because we see it is more and more Jesus and His Grace that keeps us going.

This is why we can love more and more and automatically fulill the law because we are following Jesus and hearing from the Lord.

This is my commandment that ye love one another as I have loved you.... and we know exactly what Jesus means by that because we have His WORD and His Spirit in our hearts telling us exactly what to do in every situation.

Lets love the Lord and not law and not ourselves and our supposed law keeping.

 

[11822]

Does love thy neighbor fulfill all laws? Are there any laws that only fulfill love for God?

 

[New_Wineskin]

The only reason I ask this is because of what Jesus said about David and his men on the Sabbath, when they were starving.

Is it fair to say that IF the Sabbath was made for man, as and when required, in times of neccesity, God allows us via his MERCY to Bend or even break the "rules" a bit.

Any thoughts and other examples come to mind ?

Cheers gang.

If one wishes to live by the written code , then there should be no need to find loopholes in the "rules" . If one wishes to live by the Spirit , there will be no need to lok for "rules" .

One example of what you are looking for comes to mind ...
Peter , in his vision , is told to do something he believes is a rule - he says "no way , Lord" . He acknowledges that it is the Lord telling him to do it but he tells the Lord "no" because he will continue to follow he rules . The Lord allows the vision three times . Peter understands it later .

Do you want to follow rules or the Lord ?

 

[JimB]

Does love thy neighbor fulfill all laws? Are there any laws that only fulfill love for God?

Love really does fulfill the Law. In fact, only love can fulfill it the way it is meant to be fulfilled (the spirit and not the letter) because love for others takes us outside ourselves, causes us to deny ourselves.

For instance. If I love God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength, I will keep His Law because I love Him, not because I have to or because it is written somewhere. If I love Him, heart, soul, mind, and strength, I will have no other God's before Him; I will not worship idols, I will not misuse His name, and I will keep my days holy for Him.

Likewise, if I love my neighbor as I love myself, I will honor my parents, I will not murder my neighbor, or steal his stuff, or commit adultery with his spouse, or commit perjury against him, or covet his possessions. This is the Decalog, the moral law, the Commandments. I will obey them out of a sense of love for others, not just a love for myslef or because I have to in order to qualify for heaven.

Hence love alone can fulfill the Law because love for others outside ourselves is what makes us like God. "Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love" (1 John 4.8). When we learn love we have truly denied ourselves, the prerequisite for being a diciple of Christ.

~Jim

 

[11822]

Love really does fulfill the Law. In fact, only love can fulfill it the way it is meant to be fulfilled (the spirit and not the letter) because love for others takes us outside ourselves, causes us to deny ourselves.

For instance. If I love God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength, I will keep His Law because I love Him, not because I have to or because it is written somewhere. If I love Him, heart, soul, mind, and strength, I will have no other God's before Him; I will not worship idols, I will not misuse His name, and I will keep my days holy for Him.

Likewise, if I love my neighbor as I love myself, I will honor my parents, I will not murder my neighbor, or steal his stuff, or commit adultery with his spouse, or commit perjury against him, or covet his possessions. This is the Decalog, the moral law, the Commandments. I will obey them out of a sense of love for others, not just a love for myslef or because I have to in order to qualify for heaven.

Hence love alone can fulfill the Law because love for others outside ourselves is what makes us like God. "Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love" (1 John 4.8). When we learn love we have truly denied ourselves, the prerequisite for being a diciple of Christ.

~Jim

Thanks. I'm wondering if there are any laws that are fulfilled only by love for God, but not love for neighbor. For example, not taking Gods name in vain could be said to be love for God, but not neighbor.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

Does love thy neighbor fulfill all laws? Are there any laws that only fulfill love for God?

As Jesus said, the greatest law and only law is love..... for He is love, God is love. To love you have to have the Lord. It is impossible to love without the Lord for HE IS LOVE.

Simple straight forward and with the Lord in our hearts, His Love in our hearts and His voice speaking to us, we can fulfill His law of LOVE and give all and go everywhere in this world and fulfill His commandment to GO, and stop worrying about oiurselves but be missionaries for HIM.

Love fulfills the law. Jesus fulfilled the law. No one else is love, no one else can obey the law or laws.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

If you love the Lord, you do not go backwards and start being introspective and worried about your saintiness and holiness, you start worrying about others who need the LAW FULFILLER, called JESUS.

You don;t put them on a tread mill after you get saved by the SAVIOUR, you don;t start preaching law and more law and more laws, you preach JESUS and SECURITY and LOVE for HIM.

New CHristians do not automatically go out and preach law, they have found the Lord and want to automatically tell others about HIM...and never the law. Never seen a new Christian want to go out and tell others about the LAW or LAWS, or Traditions and customs, but pnly about JESUS.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

If one wishes to live by the written code , then there should be no need to find loopholes in the "rules" . If one wishes to live by the Spirit , there will be no need to lok for "rules" .

One example of what you are looking for comes to mind ...
Peter , in his vision , is told to do something he believes is a rule - he says "no way , Lord" . He acknowledges that it is the Lord telling him to do it but he tells the Lord "no" because he will continue to follow he rules . The Lord allows the vision three times . Peter understands it later .

Do you want to follow rules or the Lord ?

Well said Bro or Sis.....

What is that law or this law to thee...follow thou me.

Says the Lord.

New wine... is not like the old wine.

Jesus said...to the old, You have heard it said but I say unto you, whosoever hates his brother is in endanger of damnation. And Jesus repeated the phrase.... again and again and again. You have heard ti said.....

Because Jesus law is of the heart and of the spirit. You can not fulfill his commandments of reaching others with HIS LOVE if you have not got HIS LOVE.

You will simply fall back to the old laws that do not require His LOVE being in your heart.

New wine is of the spirit, and it leads where others are afraid to go..... it goes to the ghettos it goes to the Muslims, and gasp gasp, cough, cough, sometimes even to a church. Anywhere where the Lord leads we are to follow as this bro has said and as the Lord has said.

His law is to go to all the world with His LOVE.

Those without HIS LOVE, will refuse to go, and will resort to the old laws.

 

[visionary]

Jesus healed on the Sabbath, which was gainst the law. The law is not righteous, love is. The law restricts love. We are to follow the Lord of love and not the law that is easily circumvented by the law keepers.

Jesus talked to the Samaritan woman at the well.

Jesus sat at meat with sinners.

Jesus disobeyed the church authorities, and Roman authorities

Let's be clear here.. the law against healing is not biblical.. it is Pharisee rulings, and those laws Yeshua fought against many time.. voiding the Law of God for traditions.

 

[11822]

As Jesus said, the greatest law and only law is love..... for He is love, God is love. To love you have to have the Lord. It is impossible to love without the Lord for HE IS LOVE.

Simple straight forward and with the Lord in our hearts, His Love in our hearts and His voice speaking to us, we can fulfill His law of LOVE and give all and go everywhere in this world and fulfill His commandment to GO, and stop worrying about oiurselves but be missionaries for HIM.

Love fulfills the law. Jesus fulfilled the law. No one else is love, no one else can obey the law or laws.

Yes but my question is not yet answered. Let me ask you this question instead, it more direct: Is marriage Gods law? And if so, what love motivates a Christian to submit to this law? Love for neighbor or love for God? The reason i ask is everyone says that all law is summed up by love thy neighbor, but marriage doesn't fit into that catagory does it? So i must asssume that even though love fulfills all laws, its only love for god that fulfills some laws, and love for neighbor that fulfills other laws

 

[Svt4Him]

How do we love ourselves? Love our neighbour as we love ourselves, yet there are things about myself I don't like, does that mean it's ok to not like things about our neighbour? I think so.