Are Allah and Yaweh the same God?

[Islam_mulia]

Finally a muslim to engange Thank you for participating

Then care to explain how do you describe 'messanger of allah'?

steve-bakr has explained that. It will be good for you to know about Islam before making ridiculous assumption that angels preached to prophets of God.

Think you misunderstood me- am sorry for my english might not be up to par hence the misunderstanding.

Am saying that the quran is 'rhythmic' hence it has to be from lucifer

I failed to understand how a rhytmic scripture would imply that it must have come from lucifer.

Humm, would love to hear from you what Prophecies in the Scriptures (Bible) are 'Non prophecies' to you?

Try Emmanuelle in Isaiah 7:14

Humm, actually am sure you know that the Old Testament (Torah) & New Testament (Bible) are written by Jews right?

The gospel writers are anonymous.

You will also find only in the Gospel of John statement from Jesus Like:-

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

Incidentally 'I AM' is one of the names of GOD from which GOD introduce Himself to Moses in:-

Exd 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "Indeed, [when] I come to the children of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What [is] His name?' what shall I say to them?"

Exd 3:14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'

This is one of the worst method of Christians trying to prove that Jesus is divine.

Your idea is that since Yahweh said "I Am" and Jesus said "I Am", hence are you saying that Jesus = Yahweh = the Father?

Answer carefully, my friend.

Jesus signature 'The Begining & the End' or in the greek : Alpha & Omega or Hebrew Aleph Tav can be found in the Torah 1st line. Shall show you for comparision sake:-

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, [the] Beginning and [the] End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

It was not Jesus who said he was the Alpha and the Omega in Rev 1:8.

 

[Montalban]

BUMP

I'll bite...

What is the role of prophet in Islam?

 

[Montalban]

Your idea is that since Yahweh said "I Am" and Jesus said "I Am", hence are you saying that Jesus = Yahweh = the Father?

Apparently you don't understand what "I am" means.

God doesn't say "I am a man", or "I am big", or "I am a bearded god"

"I am" is the ultimate in 'being'. Makes your opening passage about learning something ironic.

 

[brinny]

steve-bakr has explained that. It will be good for you to know about Islam before making ridiculous assumption that angels preached to prophets of God.


I failed to understand how a rhytmic scripture would imply that it must have come from lucifer.


Try Emmanuelle in Isaiah 7:14


The gospel writers are anonymous.


This is one of the worst method of Christians trying to prove that Jesus is divine.

Your idea is that since Yahweh said "I Am" and Jesus said "I Am", hence are you saying that Jesus = Yahweh = the Father?

Answer carefully, my friend.



It was not Jesus who said he was the Alpha and the Omega in Rev 1:8.

Do you REALLY want anyone to delve deeply into what Islam is? Care to share the origins of Islam?

 

[gideon army]

Nice to hear fm you Islam

Humm, let's back track shall we? I made the following Scripturally Correct Unilateral Sweeping Statement:-

(1a)

YHVH & Allah isn't the same. The Jews believe in a God head that is 1 but not 'alone' hence :

Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

However Muslim or rather 'prophet muhammad' received the quran fm a angel ;-)

Contrast above with:-

Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

You kindly countered with:-

(1b)

It is good to know that the angel Gabriel did not 'preach' to Muhammad (pbuh) and hence Gal 1:8 certainly do not apply to Muslims.

Then your friend whom is a huge respector of islam, steve_bakr answered on your behalf:

(1c)

The term "Messenger of Allah," though applied to Muhammad in a special way, is used in the Quran primarily to signify prophets who come to warn their people to return to the worship of the one true God and to obey him only. In some cases, angels can also serve as messengers of God.

The words of the Quran are said to be the words of God delivered by the angel Gabriel.

Now, you are referring me back with what your esteemed respected friend said above from your u/m post?

(1d)

steve-bakr has explained that. It will be good for you to know about Islam before making ridiculous assumption that angels preached to prophets of God.

Isn't that what i said in Point (1a) maybe you wanna try answering or refute me? That should be better yes?

I failed to understand how a rhytmic scripture would imply that it must have come from lucifer.

If you 'fail' to see any relevance that quran 'RHYTHMIC' nature not linked to lucifer who was the archangel of praise which is 'singing/ worshipping' The LORD from which attributes of 'singing' by it's nature is Rhythmic in nature then wonder if you've heard any songs in the 1st place

I've furnished scripturally proofs that The LORD told all believers IN HIM in that is any prophet that comes in HIS Name & whatever the prophet said does not come true then one needn't be afraid of that prophet - which impplies that the said prophet isn't from GOD.

I went on to state emphatically that 70% of the BIBLE (New & Old testaments) are made up of approx 70% Prophecies & you countered that there's some which are NOT Prophecies? Requested that you furnished proof & you can only produce the following?

Try Emmanuelle in Isaiah 7:14

Humm, let me furnish you prophecies of very recent development that is emprical proof that the Bible (OT & NT) if from GOD hence making quran NOT fm GOD shall we?

Egypt President Anwar Sadat was assassinated 1981 by muslim zelots (just like the countless muslim 'zelots' around the world who THINKS thhey are doing God's work)

Anwar Sadat was the 1st Arab Head of State that offered Israel Peace from years of hostilities.

Compare & contrast shall we what BIBLE has to say from which was written approx 3000 years ago:-

Psa 80:8 You have brought a vine out of Egypt; You have cast out the nations, and planted it.

Vine in the olden days speaks of peace & where does it come forth from?

Psa 80:9 You prepared [room] for it, And caused it to take deep root, And it filled the land.

Now it's clearly stating that Peace came about from The LORD & the Peace treaty Israel signed with Egypt lasts till today hence it did take root right?

The part that i want to bring your attention & that of your good friend Steave_Bakr is the following verse:-

Psa 80:13 Theboar out of the woods uproots it, And the wild beast of the field devours it.

Wow! Doubt muslim zelots appreciate GOD calling them pigs & beasts

What i've furnished you above isn't even the starter yet for a '9 course' Chinese dinner. It's not even the 'welcome drink' (read tip of Iceberg).

There's MUCH more of where above came from but just wanna tickle you 1st & am trying level best to do it slowly

The gospel writers are anonymous.

You sure?

(1) This is one of the worst method of Christians trying to prove that Jesus is divine.

(2) Your idea is that since Yahweh said "I Am" and Jesus said "I Am", hence are you saying that Jesus = Yahweh = the Father?

Answer carefully, my friend.

(1) Actually & honestly christians needn't prove a thing. maybe you wanna go check history. Ever since Jesus crucifixion and rising from the dead- every country/culture have advanced/ prospered & Liberty came in where ever the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ went & embraced.

(2) Actually it's of NO relevance what i say nor anybody, Paramount is what Scriptures have to say & shall show you:-

John 10:30 "I and [My] Father are one."

If above isn't enough, then there's also:-

John 10:38 "but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father [is] in Me, and I in Him."

Now, Scripturally 'GOD' in the Scriptures (OT & NT) encompasses the Triune God from which christians have the FATHER/ Jesus / Holy Spirit.

As for men, since we are mmade in HIS Image, men are Tripartite from which men are : Body/ Soul (mind) / Spirit

Can anybody explain it? Nope & neither can i for if i could then i'll be the fourth 1

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by gideon army Jesus signature 'The Begining & the End' or in the greek : Alpha & Omega or Hebrew Aleph Tav can be found in the Torah 1st line. Shall show you for comparision sake:-

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, [the] Beginning and [the] End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

It was not Jesus who said he was the Alpha and the Omega in Rev 1:8.

What about Jesus testifying to John that He is in Revelation?

NKJV) Revelation 1:11 saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last," and, "What you see, write in a book and send [it] to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea."

Reve 21:16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.
I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star."

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Revelation/rev1.htm

The book of Revelation is THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST. Revelation is a book that teaches who and what Jesus Christ is. It reveals Him in all of His glory, unveils Him in all of His fullness. You will find Jesus the Christ in every chapter of the book, for it is the revelation of Himself. When we read the message of the Revelation with a heart that seeks after Christ, we see in every page His face and hear from every line His voice.

If we do not see Christ in the pages of the Revelation, then all we see is vanity. By drawing near to this book in the power of the Holy Spirit, we draw near to Christ. How beautiful that is! May the elect of God receive much grace to see more and more of Christ in the pages of this book.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by Islam_mulia
It was not Jesus who said he was the Alpha and the Omega in Rev 1:8.

Jesus lied?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Islam_mulia
It was not Jesus who said he was the Alpha and the Omega in Rev 1:8.

Jesus lied?

Perhaps it may be best to see how Muslims view the book of Revelation.
Anyone want to bump this thread up?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7410816/
Muslims and the Book of Revelation

I saw this post on another thread and rather than hijack it, I thought I would start a thread on it.

One question I have is how do Muslims view the book of Revelation in the Christian Bible? Thanks

Originally Posted by anatolian My interpretation for this verse is the woman sitting on a beast is America with the statue of liberty and the seven heads are the other seven countries of G-8 and the ten horns are the ten elected non-permanent members of the UN security concil.

 

[steve_bakr]

gideon's army,

You are taking Psalm 80 far away from its original context.

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

 

[Forgiven828]

As a newer Christian who has never read the Qu'ran, the Torah, the Talmud, the Book of Mormon or many other texts attributed to other religions, I can go only go by what I have read in the Bible.

I believe there is only one God. He is the creator of all. Who am I to say that "joe" is worshipping a different God than I am because he labels himself a Mormon. Or if "steve" calls Him Allah when he prays? I am not in the minds of others. I do not know their teachings, their history or their scriptures.

Those who choose to call Him different names are not wrong, they merely use another name than I do.

Besides if we are saying that they are praying to another "god" then aren't we acknowledging the existence of other "gods"? My Bible teaches me there is only one God.

 

[steve_bakr]

As a newer Christian who has never read the Qu'ran, the Torah, the Talmud, the Book of Mormon or many other texts attributed to other religions, I can go only go by what I have read in the Bible.

I believe there is only one God. He is the creator of all. Who am I to say that "joe" is worshipping a different God than I am because he labels himself a Mormon. Or if "steve" calls Him Allah when he prays? I am not in the minds of others. I do not know their teachings, their history or their scriptures.

Those who choose to call Him different names are not wrong, they merely use another name than I do.

Besides if we are saying that they are praying to another "god" then aren't we acknowledging the existence of other "gods"? My Bible teaches me there is only one God.

I like what I'm hearing from you.

BTW, As you are new Christian, I would like to advise you to stick with the Bible and to hold off on reading other religious texts for awhile.

Thank you for your post.

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

This is one of the worst method of Christians trying to prove that Jesus is divine.

Your idea is that since Yahweh said "I Am" and Jesus said "I Am", hence are you saying that Jesus = Yahweh = the Father?

It's not just that Yahweh said "I am". That's what "Yahweh" literally means. We have Jesus applying the divine name to himself.

It is commonly assumed that Yahweh = Father. However Yawheh is who the Word (John 1:1) was before He became Jesus. It only in the New Testament that we learn about the Father. Nobody can know the Father except through the Son. (Matt 11:26)

 

[xDenax]

As a newer Christian who has never read the Qu'ran, the Torah, the Talmud, the Book of Mormon or many other texts attributed to other religions, I can go only go by what I have read in the Bible.

The Torah is the first five books of what you call the Old Testament. You've probably read some of it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Forgiven828 As a newer Christian who has never read the Qu'ran, the Torah, the Talmud, the Book of Mormon or many other texts attributed to other religions, I can go only go by what I have read in the Bible.

The Torah is the first five books of what you call the Old Testament. You've probably read some of it.

I am sure she has.
A better question would be, have the Muslims?

 

[JesiJones]

To the comment asking why God would allow such division...... s/he doesn't, we do. There is no reason why religion has to divide us as it does. Paul said one can come to understand God through creation. Nature is full of diversity... diversity is beautiful, we just have to learn how see it.

YHVH & Allah isn't the same. The Jews believe in a God head that is 1 but not 'alone' hence :

Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

However Muslim or rather 'prophet muhammad' received the quran fm a angel ;-)

Contrast above with:-

Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Wow, as far as we all can see- how many millions of Muslim are cursed with all the cursings of Deutronomy 28?

Lucifer was the angel of worship which is singing, therefore am sure all will agree that lyrics are rhythmic? Then contrast again with the Quran ;-)

Lastly, the Bible (Torah & NT) when combined constitutes approx 70% in prophecies, of which roughly 60-70% of those prophecies have been fulfilled.

Compare & contrast BIBLE to the Quran, for one need not be rocket scientist to know that result ;-)

Lastly, in Deu- the LORD specifically states that if any man claims that he is from the Lord, whatever he says & have not come to pass then know that he isn't fm GOD. I know the Muslim serves the god of this world & age (those that understand scriptures will know what I mean)

the following in red is not entirely true. Yes God is seen as one.... but the One has many emanations.

The plurality found in Genesis reflects God as Elohim or "The Creator" which is seen as both feminine and masculine. So that name is the relationship of God to creation - that is, God operating as the duality of nature.

Secondly you can't simply take the context of one book regarding one point and use it as a basis for whole Bible vs (insert other text). You have to ask yourself what the point is. What the author, man or God intended to get across in Genesis. What part of it is to be unquestioned.

I would just look at Genesis by itself first.... and I would do that for every book - looking at historical origin for added context.

 

[JesiJones]

You're spot on of course and it's actually really simple. For Arabic-speaking Christians too (and not just for Muslims) Allah means God. The word Allah is used for God in the Scripture, in liturgical and other prayers etc. Allah is an Arabic word for God, so it's really a linguistic question and not a question of theology or for the comparative science or philosophy of religion.

That aside it's also my opinion that Muslims fear the same God as Christians do. The Muslim God however is not incarnated at all like Christians know God to be in Jesus our saviour. There is an important theological difference there which may or may not be reflected in the lives of individual, nominal Christians and Muslims, so even on this level we cannot expect to be in a better position as Christians. Jesus is the Judge and humans know very little. Our knowledge of how others stand with regards to God is practically nil. But the Gospel tells about the difference that enables us to have a personal relationship with God regardless of who we are, where we were born, what religious label other people know us to have etc.

I would just like to point out that as not all Christians follow the Nicene Creed- not all believe Jesus was/is Divine.

 

[Islam_mulia]

Nice to hear fm you Islam

Humm, let's back track shall we? I made the following Scripturally Correct Unilateral Sweeping Statement:-

(1a)

Originally Posted by gideon army

However Muslim or rather 'prophet muhammad' received the quran fm a angel ;-)

Contrast above with:-

Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
​

You kindly countered with:-

(1b)

Originally Posted by Islam_mulia

It is good to know that the angel Gabriel did not 'preach' to Muhammad (pbuh) and hence Gal 1:8 certainly do not apply to Muslims.
​

Isn't that what i said in Point (1a) maybe you wanna try answering or refute me? That should be better yes?

Did I not clearly point to you that Gal 1:8 does not relate to Muhammad (pbuh) as the angel did not preach to the Prophet.

If you 'fail' to see any relevance that quran 'RHYTHMIC' nature not linked to lucifer who was the archangel of praise which is 'singing/ worshipping' The LORD from which attributes of 'singing' by it's nature is Rhythmic in nature then wonder if you've heard any songs in the 1st place

1. The Quran is not about singing

2. The Quran is not poetry or song and might not even be rhythmic.

3. I believe Lucifer is called the Morning Star in the bible? The bible writer also wrote that Jesus is the Morning Star. What is the connection?

I've furnished scripturally proofs that The LORD told all believers IN HIM in that is any prophet that comes in HIS Name & whatever the prophet said does not come true then one needn't be afraid of that prophet - which impplies that the said prophet isn't from GOD.

I went on to state emphatically that 70% of the BIBLE (New & Old testaments) are made up of approx 70% Prophecies & you countered that there's some which are NOT Prophecies? Requested that you furnished proof & you can only produce the following?

1) Indeed Emmanuel in Isaiah is not a prophecy of the coming of Christ, any more than the Son who was supposed to be taken out of Egypt was not referring to Jesus.

We can discuss this in detail in you like.

2) Did the bible writers wrote that Jesus made unfulfilled prophecies? I think they did but in order not to digress further, I shall not list down these unfulfilled prophecies.... unless you insist?

Humm, let me furnish you prophecies of very recent development that is emprical proof that the Bible (OT & NT) if from GOD hence making quran NOT fm GOD shall we?

John 10:30 "I and [My] Father are one."

If above isn't enough, then there's also:-

John 10:38 "but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father [is] in Me, and I in Him."

Now, Scripturally 'GOD' in the Scriptures (OT & NT) encompasses the Triune God from which christians have the FATHER/ Jesus / Holy Spirit.

The problem with many Christians is that they are so obsessed with "one verse proof" that they forget other verses in the same bible completely blew their agenda.

Compare this with the verses above:
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (John 17:21)

1) The verse states that not only Jesus is ONE with the Father, but Jesus and the Father are ONE with the believers.

Are you going to say all believers in Christ are divine?

2) I have answered all your questions, I hope. Maybe you would like to answer the last question which you yourself brought it up.

You wrote that since Yahweh said "I AM" and Jesus quoted exactly the words of Yahweh, ie "I AM" hence Jesus must be God. ("I AM", according to one poster here, is "The Being").

My question to you, are you saying that Jesus = Yahweh = the Father?

How about replying to the above, as well?

 

[Montalban]

As a newer Christian who has never read the Qu'ran, the Torah, the Talmud, the Book of Mormon or many other texts attributed to other religions, I can go only go by what I have read in the Bible.

I believe there is only one God. He is the creator of all. Who am I to say that "joe" is worshipping a different God than I am because he labels himself a Mormon. Or if "steve" calls Him Allah when he prays? I am not in the minds of others. I do not know their teachings, their history or their scriptures.

Those who choose to call Him different names are not wrong, they merely use another name than I do.

Besides if we are saying that they are praying to another "god" then aren't we acknowledging the existence of other "gods"? My Bible teaches me there is only one God.

If Joe were to hold up a rock and say "This is God, the God of Abraham" would you accept that?

 

[Montalban]

Jesus lied?

They believe their god lies. One thing they claim in common with out God.

 

[Montalban]

My question to you, are you saying that Jesus = Yahweh = the Father?

That's a non-question.

Jesus and the Father (and the Holy Spirit too) are God

How about replying to the above, as well?

Selective again! I asked you a question twice now.