• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Muslims and the Book of Revelation

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,549
28,531
75
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
My interpretation for this verse is the woman sitting on a beast is America with the statue of liberty and the seven heads are the other seven countries of G-8 and the ten horns are the ten elected non-permanent members of the UN security concil.
I saw this post on another thread and rather than hijack it, I thought I would start a thread on it.

One question I have is how do Muslims view the book of Revelation in the Christian Bible? Thanks
 
  • Like
Reactions: doc329

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,549
28,531
75
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
We believe it's an unauthorized source.
Can you elaborate more on that?

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading/ana-ginwskwn <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the Prophecy and keepings the in it having been written, for the time nigh.

Matt 24:15 "Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation the being declared thru Daniel the Prophet having stood in a place, holy (the one reading/ana-ginwskwn <314> (5723) let be understanding!/noeitw <3539> (5720) [Mark 13:14]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

BruceDLimber

Baha'i
Nov 14, 2005
2,820
63
Rockville, Maryland, USA
✟25,839.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Greetings!

Just for the record, while we're not Muslims, Baha'is accept the Book of Revelation (aka Apocalypse) as scriptural and indeed, have books that explain its prophecies in great detail, verse by verse!

Best regards, :)

Bruce
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,549
28,531
75
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Greetings!

Just for the record, while we're not Muslims, Baha'is accept the Book of Revelation (aka Apocalypse) as scriptural and indeed, have books that explain its prophecies in great detail, verse by verse!

Best regards, :)

Bruce
Greetings BDL! Long time no see. Thanks for the perspective from the Baha'is view. Peace :wave:
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,549
28,531
75
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
We already have many hadiths that explain signs will happen before the judgment day.

but we are not to try and make these signs happen.
Didn't Jesus refer to the "sign" 3 times to the Apostles in the Olivet Discourse?
The Sign of Jonah was also mentioned in the Gospels :wave:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7405089/

Matt 24:3....and what? the Sign............
Mark 13:4........and what? the Sign...
Luke 21:7....and what? the Sign.....

Reve 15:1 And I visioned another Sign in the heaven, great and marvelous.
Messengers seven, having stripes/blows seven, the last, that in them is-finished the fury of the God.
 
Upvote 0

Supreme

British
Jul 30, 2009
11,891
490
London
✟30,185.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
8 It is I, John, who heard and saw these things, and when I heard and saw them I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me. 9 But he said to me, "Don't! I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brothers the prophets and of those who keep the message of this book. Worship God." 10 Then he said to me, "Do not seal up the prophetic words of this book, for the appointed time 7 is near. 11 Let the wicked still act wickedly, and the filthy still be filthy. The righteous must still do right, and the holy still be holy." 12 "Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." 8 14 Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city 9 through its gates. 15 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit. 16 "I, Jesus, sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the root and offspring of David, 10 the bright morning star." 17 The Spirit and the bride 11 say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water. 18 I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city described in this book. 20 12 The one who gives this testimony says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen! Come, Lord Jesus! 21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all.
(Revelation 22:8-21)
With that in mind, being the liberal I am, I reject the revelation as authentic. I mean, it's a glorious part of literary, but after reading the Gospels and our Lord Jesus asking us to love our neighbours and then turn to a book that vividly portrays the demise and agony of our neighbours seems, well, rather contradictory. Anyways, it was written in a time when demand was high for such revelations, as Christians were a persecuted few, and it isn't the only such revelation.

Apocalypse of Paul - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apocalypse of Peter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To name but a few.
 
Upvote 0

Mahammad

Kafir
May 30, 2009
1,664
41
Canada
✟24,589.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Didn't Jesus refer to the "sign" 3 times to the Apostles in the Olivet Discourse?
The Sign of Jonah was also mentioned in the Gospels :wave:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7405089/

Matt 24:3....and what? the Sign............
Mark 13:4........and what? the Sign...
Luke 21:7....and what? the Sign.....

Reve 15:1 And I visioned another Sign in the heaven, great and marvelous.
Messengers seven, having stripes/blows seven, the last, that in them is-finished the fury of the God.


almost every prophet has prophcies, I don't know about Jesus(peace be upon him) and I don't know which one of these are true or false.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,549
28,531
75
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
almost every prophet has prophcies, I don't know about Jesus(peace be upon him) and I don't know which one of these are true or false.
Why would Jesus make false prophecies to the Jews? :confused:

Luke 19:41 And as He nears being aware the City He laments upon Her
44 and they shall be leveling theeand the offspring of thee in thee and not they shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee stead which not thou knew the time of the visitation of thee.

Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "she falls she falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations. [Jeremiah 51:8]

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7164949&page=2
DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City
 
Upvote 0

Mahammad

Kafir
May 30, 2009
1,664
41
Canada
✟24,589.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Why would Jesus make false prophecies to the Jews? :confused:

Luke 19:41 And as He nears being aware the City He laments upon Her
44 and they shall be leveling theeand the offspring of thee in thee and not they shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee stead which not thou knew the time of the visitation of thee.

Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "she falls she falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations. [Jeremiah 51:8]

DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City - Page 2 - Christian Forums
DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City

I didn't say he might made false prophecies, what I meant is he might never said so.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,549
28,531
75
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
I didn't say he might made false prophecies, what I meant is he might never said so.
So are you implying you cannot determine which are true and which are false prophecies in the Bible?

Originally Posted by formy
almost every prophet has prophcies, I don't know about Jesus(peace be upon him) and I don't know which one of these are true or false.
 
Upvote 0

Mahammad

Kafir
May 30, 2009
1,664
41
Canada
✟24,589.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
So are you implying you cannot determine which are true and which are false prophecies in the Bible?

Originally Posted by formy
almost every prophet has prophcies, I don't know about Jesus(peace be upon him) and I don't know which one of these are true or false.

Yes and that's why it's an unauthorized book.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,549
28,531
75
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
The NT book Revelation seems mostly derived from OT prophecies. Just my view.
:thumbsup:
According to this one person, he found this many "allusions" to the Hebrew OT/OC in the Bible.
I have never counted them, but I would tend to agree with his estimate :wave:

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

*snip*

One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source! That&#8217;s, IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation. That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!
 
Upvote 0

B1inHim

LOVE one another
Nov 27, 2004
2,697
80
69
Cucamonga, Ca
✟25,781.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
In Relationship
Upvote 0

fremen

Regular Member
Jul 31, 2007
343
34
✟23,138.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Private
I found an ironic coincidence. ;)

Revelation 22:3 says: "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:"

I have heard Christians say that these curses are a repetition of the theme of Deuteronomy.

Now check out Deuteronomy 29:19 (20 in Christian bibles):

"The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curse(s) [hebrew:&#1488;&#1500;&#1492; / alah] that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven."

Curious that the name of the Muslim god is the ancient Hebrew word for curse... Could there be a relation? ;)
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,549
28,531
75
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
*snip*
I found an ironic coincidence. ;)
Revelation 22:3 says: "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:"
I have heard Christians say that these curses are a repetition of the theme of Deuteronomy.

Curious that the name of the Muslim god is the ancient Hebrew word for curse... Could there be a relation? ;)
That greek word used in Reve 22:3 is also rendered "anathema".

The same word used in Acts 23 when these characters wanted to kill my bro "saul/paul" :)

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Acts 23:14 Who-any toward coming to the Chief-priests and to the Elders say "to-anathema/anaqemati <331> we anathemtize/aneqematisamen <332> (5656) ourselves of no yet nothing to taste till of which we may be killing the Paul.

Reve 22:3 and every anathema/kat-anaqema <2652> not shall be still. And the throne of the God/YHWH and of the Lamb-kin/Word in Her shall be, and His bond-servants shall be offering divine-service to Him.
 
Upvote 0

Mahammad

Kafir
May 30, 2009
1,664
41
Canada
✟24,589.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
I found an ironic coincidence. ;)

Revelation 22:3 says: "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:"

I have heard Christians say that these curses are a repetition of the theme of Deuteronomy.

Now check out Deuteronomy 29:19 (20 in Christian bibles):

"The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curse(s) [hebrew:&#1488;&#1500;&#1492; / alah] that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven."

Curious that the name of the Muslim god is the ancient Hebrew word for curse... Could there be a relation? ;)

I know a video of an Arab Jew who can refute your claims.

YouTube - A Yemeni Jew explains why Allah is the one and only God
 
Upvote 0