Are Allah and Yaweh the same God?

[Montalban]

OK.
So lets say the Quran is manmade.
Lets say that Jesus IS the way.
.
Why not Islam: right God, wrong way.
.

The god of Islam is incosistant with a loving god. Creation comes from love, it is the gift of life.

In Christianity we have free will to love God who is love

In Islam you must do whatever arbitrary thing al-Lah wants and even then he may not take you as one of his own.

Islam is also about abrogating responsibility. In Islam the man is 'over-sexed' but the women have to cover up.

If you are critical of Islam you become 'at war' with Islam.

 

[Montalban]

All 'Religion' are abt self! The devil wants ppl to be preoccupied with self for there's only Gories instead of Glory when one behold The Lord ;-)

Religion comes fm the the 'to bind'! Hence Jesus Himself was peeved with religious Pharisees jerks & all of Jesus's harsh rebukes were RESERVED especially for those 'religious pharisees'

Christianity is NOT a religion, it's a relationship between the Surpreme God & men personally. It's all about Him & how righteous He is to punish men's sins upon Himself. It's about the justice of God paying for the righteousness of God when Jesus hung on that Cross. Christianity is all about Jesus & never the believer. It is all that He has done & never what we can do

It's more than a personal relationship. How we interact with others; to commune with them is what makes us part of God. To be a real person in Christ we must be in communion with others

Matthew 25:31-46
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[Islam_mulia]

However Muslim or rather 'prophet muhammad' received the quran fm a angel ;-)

Contrast above with:-

Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Wow, as far as we all can see- how many millions of Muslim are cursed with all the cursings of Deutronomy 28?

It is good to know that the angel Gabriel did not 'preach' to Muhammad (pbuh) and hence Gal 1:8 certainly do not apply to Muslims.

Lucifer was the angel of worship which is singing, therefore am sure all will agree that lyrics are rhythmic? Then contrast again with the Quran ;-)

The Quran is not about 'singing' just like Lucifer is not what you believe to be the Morning Star in the bible?

Lastly, the Bible (Torah & NT) when combined constitutes approx 70% in prophecies, of which roughly 60-70% of those prophecies have been fulfilled.

It is safer to say that some of these 'prophecies' are non-prophecies in the first place.

Compare & contrast BIBLE to the Quran, for one need not be rocket scientist to know that result ;-)

They have their differences and their similarities.

Lastly, in Deu- the LORD specifically states that if any man claims that he is from the Lord, whatever he says & have not come to pass then know that he isn't fm GOD. I know the Muslim serves the god of this world & age (those that understand scriptures will know what I mean)

Not sure how this applies to Muhammad (pbuh) and how some Jews would say that Jesus (pbuh) might fit in this prophecy... the the Jews would say they understand their scfripture better.

 

[Islam_mulia]

Moslems call Ishmael a prophet and offer no prophecy from him.

I believe the the role of a prophet in Islam and Judaism might be different from that in Christianity.

 

[gideon army]

Finally a muslim to engange Thank you for participating

It is good to know that the angel Gabriel did not 'preach' to Muhammad (pbuh) and hence Gal 1:8 certainly do not apply to Muslims.

Then care to explain how do you describe 'messanger of allah'?

The Quran is not about 'singing' just like Lucifer is not what you believe to be the Morning Star in the bible?

Think you misunderstood me- am sorry for my english might not be up to par hence the misunderstanding.

Am saying that the quran is 'rhythmic' hence it has to be from lucifer

It is safer to say that some of these 'prophecies' are non-prophecies in the first place.

Humm, would love to hear from you what Prophecies in the Scriptures (Bible) are 'Non prophecies' to you?

Not sure how this applies to Muhammad (pbuh) and how some Jews would say that Jesus (pbuh) might fit in this prophecy... the the Jews would say they understand their scfripture better.

Humm, actually am sure you know that the Old Testament (Torah) & New Testament (Bible) are written by Jews right?

Am sure that you might also know that the 4 gospels (Matt/ Mark/ Luke & John) depicts the 4 faces / banner of the children of Israel when they camp in the desert & are the 4 pictures hung inside the temple right?

Gospel of Matthew addresses specifically to the Jews hence the lineage of Jesus Christ goes back all the way to Abraham in which the promised KING of the Jews will come from. It depicts the picture of a Lion from which comes the Lion of Judah

Gospel of Mark depicts Jesus as the heavenly servant, hence there's no ancestry for you don't ask a servant his lineage. You will keep finding phrases like 'immediately' HE did this & Immediately He went .... It's all abbout the Son of GOD who came as men to serve men. It is also the picture of the ox

Gospel of Luke depicts Jesus as the perfect man to redeem men hence his ancestry traces all the way back to Adam & it is also the picture of a Man.

Gospel of John depicts Jesus as GOD, there's No Ancestry because one doesn't ask GOD His Lineage. Gospel of John depicts Jesus as the Eagle that soars high above & from above. Hence Goospel of John opens up with :-

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

You will also find only in the Gospel of John statement from Jesus Like:-

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

Incidentally 'I AM' is one of the names of GOD from which GOD introduce Himself to Moses in:-

Exd 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "Indeed, [when] I come to the children of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What [is] His name?' what shall I say to them?"

Exd 3:14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'

OT, sidetrack cos some nuggets for you. Ever wondered why GOD (Jesus) introduce Himself as 'I Am' & never i was or i will be? Simply because He is the very present help in trouble. Psa 46:1 & HE wants to be for you whatever you want HIM to be. He is effectively giving whosoever believe in HIM a blank cheque

Jesus signature 'The Begining & the End' or in the greek : Alpha & Omega or Hebrew Aleph Tav can be found in the Torah 1st line. Shall show you for comparision sake:-

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, [the] Beginning and [the] End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

The u/m is an exact scriptures in Hebrew text taken from interlinear bible.

אֵת

The above bolded in Red is the Hebrew Word for Aleph Tav (Begining & End/ First & Last). You will note that it appears in many places in the Torah from which Jews till today do not know why it is there & what does it signifies- that is down to them not accepting the Gospels.

Another nugget for you & all readers, Hebrew text in Gen 1:1 is exactly 7 words (numbers carry their own meaning, 7 means perfection or completion) All the 'Hebrew syllabus' were used up in the 1st sentence. This is another proof that the Torah & Bible are divinely inspired which is from GOD Himself

Additional nuggets for you, ever wonder why the Aleph Tav appears in the midst of the Scriptures?

If you read the Gospels then you'll know that Jesus loves to be In The MIDST He is always central.

Now as for the 4 banners (Gospels), this is what we (Believers) should do:-

Isa 59:19 So shall they fear The name of the LORD from the west, And His glory from the rising of the sun; When the enemy comes in like a flood, The Spirit of the LORD will lift up a standard against him.

Now, what is enemy? Proverty? Sickness? Broken marriage? Now Standard above is actually a BANNER from which period armies rally around their country/king banner or Standard. Jesus Himself is the Banner/Standard for ALL Knees shall bow & every name that can be named. If it can be named, it has to bow at the name of Jesus. Cancer/ Proverty & much more, ever name that is named & in the age to come which means everything has to bow/flee when the name of Jesus is used

Ok, went a big round to show you this pertaining to Jews,

Matthew 25:1-13 is famous parable of the 10 virgins from which am sure you've heard about. Actually throughout the ages christiandom have got it wrong. It is not referring to christians but to the Jews hence went the long way in explaining to you & other readers here. Praise be to GOD, 50% of the Jews will be saved when Jesus comes back.

Whatever i've stated above, Jews are surprised at these revelations for they themselves do not know hence:-

Hsa 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

 

[steve_bakr]

Finally a muslim to engange Thank you for participating

Then care to explain how do you describe 'messanger of allah'?

Think you misunderstood me- am sorry for my english might not be up to par hence the misunderstanding.

Am saying that the quran is 'rhythmic' hence it has to be from lucifer

Humm, would love to hear from you what Prophecies in the Scriptures (Bible) are 'Non prophecies' to you?

Humm, actually am sure you know that the Old Testament (Torah) & New Testament (Bible) are written by Jews right?

Am sure that you might also know that the 4 gospels (Matt/ Mark/ Luke & John) depicts the 4 faces / banner of the children of Israel when they camp in the desert & are the 4 pictures hung inside the temple right?

Gospel of Matthew addresses specifically to the Jews hence the lineage of Jesus Christ goes back all the way to Abraham in which the promised KING of the Jews will come from. It depicts the picture of a Lion from which comes the Lion of Judah

Gospel of Mark depicts Jesus as the heavenly servant, hence there's no ancestry for you don't ask a servant his lineage. You will keep finding phrases like 'immediately' HE did this & Immediately He went .... It's all abbout the Son of GOD who came as men to serve men. It is also the picture of the ox

Gospel of Luke depicts Jesus as the perfect man to redeem men hence his ancestry traces all the way back to Adam & it is also the picture of a Man.

Gospel of John depicts Jesus as GOD, there's No Ancestry because one doesn't ask GOD His Lineage. Gospel of John depicts Jesus as the Eagle that soars high above & from above. Hence Goospel of John opens up with :-

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

You will also find only in the Gospel of John statement from Jesus Like:-

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

Incidentally 'I AM' is one of the names of GOD from which GOD introduce Himself to Moses in:-

Exd 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "Indeed, [when] I come to the children of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What [is] His name?' what shall I say to them?"

Exd 3:14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'

OT, sidetrack cos some nuggets for you. Ever wondered why GOD (Jesus) introduce Himself as 'I Am' & never i was or i will be? Simply because He is the very present help in trouble. Psa 46:1 & HE wants to be for you whatever you want HIM to be. He is effectively giving whosoever believe in HIM a blank cheque

Jesus signature 'The Begining & the End' or in the greek : Alpha & Omega or Hebrew Aleph Tav can be found in the Torah 1st line. Shall show you for comparision sake:-

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, [the] Beginning and [the] End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

The u/m is an exact scriptures in Hebrew text taken from interlinear bible.

???

The above bolded in Red is the Hebrew Word for Aleph Tav (Begining & End/ First & Last). You will note that it appears in many places in the Torah from which Jews till today do not know why it is there & what does it signifies- that is down to them not accepting the Gospels.

Another nugget for you & all readers, Hebrew text in Gen 1:1 is exactly 7 words (numbers carry their own meaning, 7 means perfection or completion) All the 'Hebrew syllabus' were used up in the 1st sentence. This is another proof that the Torah & Bible are divinely inspired which is from GOD Himself

Additional nuggets for you, ever wonder why the Aleph Tav appears in the midst of the Scriptures?

If you read the Gospels then you'll know that Jesus loves to be In The MIDST He is always central.

Now as for the 4 banners (Gospels), this is what we (Believers) should do:-

Isa 59:19 So shall they fear The name of the LORD from the west, And His glory from the rising of the sun; When the enemy comes in like a flood, The Spirit of the LORD will lift up a standard against him.

Now, what is enemy? Proverty? Sickness? Broken marriage? Now Standard above is actually a BANNER from which period armies rally around their country/king banner or Standard. Jesus Himself is the Banner/Standard for ALL Knees shall bow & every name that can be named. If it can be named, it has to bow at the name of Jesus. Cancer/ Proverty & much more, ever name that is named & in the age to come which means everything has to bow/flee when the name of Jesus is used

Ok, went a big round to show you this pertaining to Jews,

Matthew 25:1-13 is famous parable of the 10 virgins from which am sure you've heard about. Actually throughout the ages christiandom have got it wrong. It is not referring to christians but to the Jews hence went the long way in explaining to you & other readers here. Praise be to GOD, 50% of the Jews will be saved when Jesus comes back.

Whatever i've stated above, Jews are surprised at these revelations for they themselves do not know hence:-

Hsa 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

The term "Messenger of Allah," though applied to Muhammad in a special way, is used in the Quran primarily to signify prophets who come to warn their people to return to the worship of the one true God and to obey him only. In some cases, angels can also serve as messengers of God.

The words of the Quran are said to be the words of God delivered by the angel Gabriel.

If you claim that because of the Quran's rhythmic quality, it comes from Lucifer--this is tantamount to making the same claim about the Psalms of the Bible. This is a terrible conclusion to draw, and without basis.

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

 

[gideon army]

If you claim that because of the Quran's rhythmic quality, it comes from Lucifer--this is tantamount to making the same claim about the Psalms of the Bible. This is a terrible conclusion to draw, and without basis.

hahaha

Drawing parallels? I know of this from my Scriptures:-

Pro 4:22 For they [are] life to those who find them, And health to all their flesh.

Wow, no medication are without side effects but my bible side effects are HEALTH to ALL my flesh

I know quran isn't

 

[steve_bakr]

hahaha

Drawing parallels? I know of this from my Scriptures:-

Pro 4:22 For they [are] life to those who find them, And health to all their flesh.

Wow, no medication are without side effects but my bible side effects are HEALTH to ALL my flesh

I know quran isn't

But you can't make arbitrary and unfounded statements is my point.

Also, the Proverbs that you quoted is not about Scripture but refers to a father's advice to his son.

Let's keep our posts more accurate, shall we?

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

 

[gideon army]

But you can't make arbitrary and unfounded statements is my point.

Also, the Proverbs that you quoted is not about Scripture but refers to a father's advice to his son.

Let's keep our posts more accurate, shall we?

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

hahaha Then may i assume that you do not subscribe to the following?

2 Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness

Actually agree wholeheartely with you in point blank engagement (short & sharp) hence i thank the other contributor directly.

Answering you arise out of need to be courteous towards you Doubt it ever affects you hence my answers are measured- why?

Ecc 5:3 For a dream comes through much activity, And a fool's voice [is known] by [his] many words

Romans 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

Hence i endeavor to be as precise & methodical as possible using scriptures & scriptures alone to compare & contrast everything & anything for the world is peripheral to the scriptures

 

[Montalban]

I believe the the role of a prophet in Islam and Judaism might be different from that in Christianity.

I'll bite...

What is the role of prophet in Islam?

 

[Montalban]

But you can't make arbitrary and unfounded statements is my point.

Also, the Proverbs that you quoted is not about Scripture but refers to a father's advice to his son.

Let's keep our posts more accurate, shall we?

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

Steve_bakr, I'll ask a fourth time, thence no more (I assure you) why don't you address the examples I raised of Hong Xiuquan, or of a person who calls a stone 'god'?

 

[JJWhite]

In Islam you must do whatever arbitrary thing al-Lah wants and even then he may not take you as one of his own.

That is not how Muslims perceive their God, and it is not the message presented by the Qur'aan and Hadith as understood by any shaikh I have ever come across.

Islam is also about abrogating responsibility. In Islam the man is 'over-sexed' but the women have to cover up.

That is not so just because it became popular due to cultural influences for many to interpret the reasoning behind women covering in this way.. furthermore, you do not see the many positive examples of men taking on the responsibility in maintaining these laws governing modesty. One example from our real life is that when we have female guests over, the men of the home are the ones usually trapped in a room while the women go around the whole house uncovered.

If you are critical of Islam you become 'at war' with Islam.

That too is a false assessment.

--

I've stopped arguing with you, and I will not waste hours in a discussion, but just in case we have some new people reading this, I just thought I'd bring up my perspective as a Muslim.

 

[Montalban]

That is not how Muslims perceive their God, and it is not the message presented by the Qur'aan and Hadith as understood by any shaikh I have ever come across.

Tell me when you can disobey your god. Islam's very name means 'submission'.

That is not so just because it became popular due to cultural influences for many to interpret the reasoning behind women covering in this way..
furthermore, you do not see the many positive examples of men taking on the responsibility in maintaining these laws governing modesty. One example from our real life is that when we have female guests over, the men of the home are the ones usually trapped in a room while the women go around the whole house uncovered.

Sure men take on the laws - they stone women

Wow. Men trapped in a room, but able to go out into the world at large.

That too is a false assessment.

No. It's shown by history. The 'poetess' who wrote witty stuff about Muhammed was murdered.

She wasn't the only one. Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf was murdered. The list goes on

All the way to the cartoonists in Denmark. Even when Moslems just perceive an insult they kill and riot.

Islam's rebuttal is 'no it's not'.

 

[Montalban]

I've stopped arguing with you, and I will not waste hours in a discussion, but just in case we have some new people reading this, I just thought I'd bring up my perspective as a Muslim.

That's okay. I accept that Islamic apologetics (judging by the web-sites) consist of a non-Moslem asking a question, being given an answer and expected to accept that answer.

When I see Islamic schools in Somalia, and Sudan where the kids just learn the Koran uncritically and by rote I'm not therefore surprised that questions aren't easily dealt with in Islam.

I compare this with some Jewish school traditions where boys sit down in pairs and argue about a selected text. They're taught to question and work things out.

 

[steve_bakr]

Tell me when you can disobey your god. Islam's very name means 'submission'.

Sure men take on the laws - they stone women

Wow. Men trapped in a room, but able to go out into the world at large.

No. It's shown by history. The 'poetess' who wrote witty stuff about Muhammed was murdered.

She wasn't the only one. Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf was murdered. The list goes on

All the way to the cartoonists in Denmark. Even when Moslems just perceive an insult they kill and riot.

Islam's rebuttal is 'no it's not'.

You have an opportunity to be an ambassador for Christ, yet you spoil it on accusations and contentiousness. One thing I learned from the study of Islam is the importance of good manners. Where are yours, Friend?

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

 

[durangodawood]

The god of Islam is incosistant with a loving god. Creation comes from love, it is the gift of life.

In Christianity we have free will to love God who is love

In Islam you must do whatever arbitrary thing al-Lah wants and even then he may not take you as one of his own.

Islam is also about abrogating responsibility. In Islam the man is 'over-sexed' but the women have to cover up.

If you are critical of Islam you become 'at war' with Islam.

It sounds like God is simply what we believe him to be like.
.
I would have thought you could have some wrong beliefs about the real God, and so worship the right deity but in the wrong way.
.
But you make it sound like your beliefs actually create the god. Basically, God IS what you believe He is.
.

 

[steve_bakr]

Steve_bakr, I'll ask a fourth time, thence no more (I assure you) why don't you address the examples I raised of Hong Xiuquan, or of a person who calls a stone 'god'?

I already dealt with these types of analogy in an earlier post. Basically, these analogies don't relate to the subject matter, which is that Islam recognizes the God of Abraham and the God of Israel. Your prejudice requires you to reach for ways to deny that.

Peace of the Lord be with you.
"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

 

[JJWhite]

Tell me when you can disobey your god. Islam's very name means 'submission'.

Go read your initial statement. It said a lot more than about submitting to God's laws.

Sure men take on the laws - they stone women

Under Islamic law, women and men both share the same penalty with the same conditions for the same acts.

Wow. Men trapped in a room, but able to go out into the world at large.

Muslim women go out. Wearing a head covering, or even a face covering as in my case, does not inhibit that.

No. It's shown by history. The 'poetess' who wrote witty stuff about Muhammed was murdered.

To my knowledge, the narration of that alleged event is not even authentic. Even if it did occur, I know it's not just because she made up critical poetry. There were other poets who criticized but were not killed. There must have been something more.

She wasn't the only one. Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf was murdered. The list goes on

Ibn Al-Ashraf's story is in Bukhari, if I recall correctly. That I acknowledge as authentic. Again, we take all of the prophet's conduct together and study it with all of his teachings. We believe that the particular situation must have warranted that killing. We do not believe that one may kill someone because they said some nasty things about Islam.

All the way to the cartoonists in Denmark. Even when Moslems just perceive an insult they kill and riot.

Muslims can be idiots too.

Islam's rebuttal is 'no it's not'.

A Muslim's rebuttal is not the same as Islam's rebuttal.

-

You're good at tempting me to get into this again, aren't you? I will not. I already spent hours trying my best to research and explain to you last year, and I'm not interested in doing it again.

So, bye for now!

 

[FredVB]

It sounds like God is simply what we believe him to be like.
.
I would have thought you could have some wrong beliefs about the real God, and so worship the right deity but in the wrong way.
.
But you make it sound like your beliefs actually create the god. Basically, God IS what you believe He is.
.

Many make God in their own image. Yahweh himself is not subject to that.

 

[durangodawood]

Many make God in their own image. Yahweh himself is not subject to that.

Thats what they all say.
.