Worried about the new document from Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace..

[WarriorAngel]

A few things to remember - when the Church speaks to us to share our goods, it refers solely to the individuals. The Church doesnt make demands on the government FORCEFULLY taking from one class and handing it to another - as tho that will ever work.
It only makes more ppl less eager to work if its easier to get the freebie's.

Secondly, socialism hasnt worked, at all. The Popes - i think 3 maybe only 2 but i am almost certain 3 said socialism is evil.

WE - the individuals should not be relying on governments - that doesnt help us be charitable - its taking the good works we ought be doing and handing it over to an entity [gov] who doesnt care...

 

[Enkil]

One wonders why we constantly look towards the "system" to solve our problems anyway? The real solution is Christian revival in our home countries rather than relying on dead governments of dead people to somehow get things "right" where it has failed a million times before. Einstein said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. A living body can certainly do more for "poverty" and other unfortunate things than a dead government that traditionally just throws money at things without fully comprehending them. It is nonsense to expect some weird tax scheme to suddenly solve all the problems of world poverty; nevermind that the communists tried their best and just ended up with mass murder and rape; and the socialists in a condition of perpetual mediocrity and debt to lay upon the future generations, with each failure leading to a further excuse to consolidate power into the hands of a few rather than in the people themselves. The communist revolution in Russia was not started on the premise of killing millions of people and creating a police state; it was made for the purpose of supposedly bettering the world, providing health and wealth and opportunity to a working people who had been allegedly enslaved by the bourgeoisie. It is no coincidence also that our emphasis on Government (or easy) solution has also bred a hyper-materialistic and misled people. And as the other poster said, real "poverty" is a condition of a soul without Christ. As such, the spreading of the Gospel should be the first priority of the church, with all the good works (poverty relief, etc) coming naturally with it, but never in front of it. The value of a society is not in its wealth or health but in whether or not it loves God, and loves what God loves and hates what God hates. If God is with such a people, He is more likely to prosper them than the people who rely on their own godless machinations to provide their material prosperity.

 

[ebia]

A few things to remember - when the Church speaks to us to share our goods, it refers solely to the individuals. The Church doesnt make demands on the government FORCEFULLY taking from one class and handing it to another - as tho that will ever work.
It only makes more ppl less eager to work if its easier to get the freebie's.

Secondly, socialism hasnt worked, at all. The Popes - i think 3 maybe only 2 but i am almost certain 3 said socialism is evil.

WE - the individuals should not be relying on governments - that doesnt help us be charitable - its taking the good works we ought be doing and handing it over to an entity [gov] who doesnt care...

I struggle to see how you read all the Catholic social encyclicals and other documents and then say that.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

It's amazing that so many Catholics will whole hardheartedly agree when it comes to condemning Gays and woman who have children out of wedlock, but dare to mention "Social Justice" and boy they spin faster than a convention of lawyers.

A message to the Rad Trad's. 1. I grew up with the Latin Mass, most hated it and complained that they couldn't understand it. 2. Unless you are deaf, dumb and blind, then you could not have read the prominent church documents and not understood the fact, that the church supports "Social Justice"

The church unequivocally supports a social doctrine. Call it Distributionism or whatever you like, but it certainly is NOT unbridled capitalism.

And furthermore, Jesus had a special place in his heart for the poor and downtrodden.

But if someone who is supposed to be a Christian has money enough to live well, and sees a brother in need, and won't help him--how can God's love be within him ? 1 John 3:18 Little children, let us stop just saying we love people; let us really love them, and show it by our actions. 1 John 3:19 Then we will know for sure, by our actions, that we are on God's side, and our consciences will be clear, even when we stand before the Lord.

James 1:27 The Christian who is pure and without fault, from God the Father's point of view, is the one who takes care of orphans and widows, and who remains true to the Lord--not soiled and dirtied by his contacts with the world.

Tell those who are rich not to be proud and not to trust in their money, which will soon be gone, but their pride and trust should be in the living God who always richly gives us all we need for our enjoyment. 1 Tim. 6:18 Tell them to use their money to do good. They should be rich in good works and should give happily to those in need, always being ready to share with others whatever God has given them. 1 Tim. 6:19 By doing this they will be storing up real treasure for themselves in heaven--it is the only safe investment for eternity! And they will be living a fruitful Christian life down here as well.

​

Mat. 25:34 "Then I, the King, shall say to those at my right, 'Come, blessed of my Father, into the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. Mat. 25:35 For I was hungry and you fed me; I was thirsty and you gave me water; I was a stranger and you invited me into your homes; Mat. 25:36 naked and you clothed me; sick and in prison, and you visited me.' Mat. 25:37 "Then these righteous ones will reply, 'Sir, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you anything to drink? Mat. 25:38 Or a stranger, and help you? Or naked, and clothe you? Mat. 25:39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?' Mat. 25:40 "And I, the King, will tell them, 'When you did it to these my brothers you were doing it to me!'

Luke 3:9 The axe of his judgment is poised over you, ready to sever your roots and cut you down. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire." Luke 3:10 The crowd replied, "What do you want us to do?" Luke 3:11 "If you have two coats," he replied, "give one to the poor. If you have extra food, give it away to those who are hungry."

 

[Michie]

One wonders why we constantly look towards the "system" to solve our problems anyway? The real solution is Christian revival in our home countries rather than relying on dead governments of dead people to somehow get things "right" where it has failed a million times before. Einstein said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. A living body can certainly do more for "poverty" and other unfortunate things than a dead government that traditionally just throws money at things without fully comprehending them. It is nonsense to expect some weird tax scheme to suddenly solve all the problems of world poverty; nevermind that the communists tried their best and just ended up with mass murder and rape; and the socialists in a condition of perpetual mediocrity and debt to lay upon the future generations, with each failure leading to a further excuse to consolidate power into the hands of a few rather than in the people themselves. The communist revolution in Russia was not started on the premise of killing millions of people and creating a police state; it was made for the purpose of supposedly bettering the world, providing health and wealth and opportunity to a working people who had been allegedly enslaved by the bourgeoisie. It is no coincidence also that our emphasis on Government (or easy) solution has also bred a hyper-materialistic and misled people. And as the other poster said, real "poverty" is a condition of a soul without Christ. As such, the spreading of the Gospel should be the first priority of the church, with all the good works (poverty relief, etc) coming naturally with it, but never in front of it. The value of a society is not in its wealth or health but in whether or not it loves God, and loves what God loves and hates what God hates. If God is with such a people, He is more likely to prosper them than the people who rely on their own godless machinations to provide their material prosperity.

You are absolutely correct. Amen.

 

[Michie]

Can a Global Central Bank Make More Disciples?


Do we need a supranational authority to enforce social justice? The Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace (PJCP) seems to think so. Its new document, “Towards Reforming the International Financial and Monetary Systems in the Context of a Global Public Authority,” calls for global economic regulation by a supranational body and a central world bank to rule world financial institutions in an effort to enforce social justice. It also calls for numerous specific state interventions in the market such as taxing specific financial transactions.

As Jeff Tucker of the Ludwig von Mises Institute notes, this call for increased economic statism is particularly unfortunate because the document diagnoses the cause of the economic crisis relatively well. The problem was created by government manipulation of the monetary system and the inflation it fostered. Monetary inflation in the form of credit expansion fueled a housing bubble that spawned a derivative bubble and a general credit bubble. Such severe malinvestment necessarily resulted in a cluster of entrepreneurial losses as the inflationary boom reversed itself into the Great Recession. Because artificial central bank-created monetary inflation caused the problem, it seems unlikely that central bank-created monetary inflation can also solve the problem.

Additionally, the Vatican document promotes a severe error of mistaken jurisdictions. While it rightly warns against turning the market into an idol, it also claims that “the crisis has revealed behaviors like selfishness, collective greed and hoarding of goods on a great scale.”

While it is true that the crisis revealed many unholy practices, the Vatican’s PCJP is making a big mistake in thinking that behaviors such as selfishness and collective greed can be solved through global economic planning, or any state action for that matter. The institution that exists to make disciples of Christ in all nations is the church, not the state.

Continued-
Can a Global Central Bank Make More Disciples?

 

[BabyChristian22]

Fact Check: Why Catholics Who Disagree With Justice & Peace White Papers Aren’t “Cafeteria Catholics” | CatholicVote.org

and

On The News : Spare us from Vatican economic analysts - Catholic Culture

The key point from the article is:

"The Catholic Church does not claim teaching authority on matters of economics and finance."
- Catholic Culture.Org

 

[BabyChristian22]

It's amazing that so many Catholics will whole hardheartedly agree when it comes to condemning Gays

What do you mean by "condemning"? If you mean sentencing someone to Hell, the Catholic Church has never declared anyone to be in Hell. Whoever is in Hell is because they condemned themselves there by rejecting God. Those in Hell call evil good and call good evil. The Catholic Church teaches that to struggle with same-sex attraction is not a sin. It only becomes a sin when one intends to act on it. Also, God has been telling us through Holy Scripture and the Prophets that homosexual sex is a serious sin for thousands of years before there was a Catholic Church. The people who think they have a problem with the Catholic Church's teaching on homoesexuals actually have a problem with God since the teachings come from Him. The Catholic Church is the messenger of God's word.

 

[S.ilvio]

A universal social welfare system as a 'fall back ' is good

I couldn't agree more...

 

[Michie]

The Vatican’s Monetary Wisdom

Expert Downplays Vatican Council’s Idea for Financial Body

 

[S.ilvio]

My oh my the American Right Wingers are on allout assault mode on the Vatican on this one.

The common sense, compassionate economic policy has really touched a nerve in the Ultra's circles...

 

[Colin]

What I said was correct. The "Pontifical Commission for the Study of Population, Family and Births," which was tasked with the study of contraception after the convening of the Second Vatican Council, was a Pontifical Commission. It was not a Pontifical Council, which the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace - the topic of his thread - is. Both Pontifical Commissions and Curia Agencies, such as Ecclesia Dei, are part of the Roman Curia,

My apologies for jumping down your throat . I was going off the wording of Pope Paul's Encyclical Humanae Vitae where he refers to it as a "Study Commission" . This Study Commission was , as you say , a Pontifical Commission .

I had never seen the commission referred to as Pontifical .

I apologise again for not doing my research well enough , and for wrongly criticising your comments .

 

[BabyChristian22]

I couldn't agree more...

Have you ever had to be on welfare? I had to as soon as I turned 18 because I lived in California where 10 people can compete over a diswasher job. Being on welfare was a very demoralizing experience. They made me do a lot of meaningless work, pulling weeds in the hot summer in a field in the middle of nowhere and digging there for no reason. It felt like slavery. I worked like a dog, didn't have enough money to eat and had to pay them the money back. Thank God that I found a way to escape it before it drove me crazy. But even when I had a job no matter how long I paid on the debt it seemed to never go down. They would keep telling me that the previous amount that they said I owed wasn't the correct amount and that I actually owed them more.

 

[ebia]

The key point from the article is:

"The Catholic Church does not claim teaching authority on matters of economics and finance."
- Catholic Culture.Org

So the big question is still not "what does it say" but "can I ignore it"?

 

[BabyChristian22]

So the big question is still not "what does it say" but "can I ignore it"?

If it's not about faith and morals, we can read it, but we don't have to accept it with our faith.

 

[S.ilvio]

Have you ever had to be on welfare? I had to as soon as I turned 18 because I lived in California where 10 people can compete over a diswasher job. Being on welfare was a very demoralizing experience. They made me do a lot of meaningless work, pulling weeds in the hot summer in a field in the middle of nowhere and digging there for no reason. It felt like slavery. I worked like a dog, didn't have enough money to eat and had to pay them the money back. Thank God that I found a way to escape it before it drove me crazy. But even when I had a job no matter how long I paid on the debt it seemed to never go down. They would keep telling me that the previous amount that they said I owed wasn't the correct amount and that I actually owed them more.

Thank God we have a compassionate Welfare system in Ireland and without it we'd have been on the streets when I was a child. So I will forever defend Social Welfare til my dying day...

 

[Anhelyna]

Agree with you there S.ilvio .

Our system is not perfect but there is help when you need it

 

[ebia]

If it's not about faith and morals, we can read it, but we don't have to accept it with our faith.

I'm still bemused by where the weight of interest lays.

 

[ebia]

Thank God we have a compassionate Welfare system in Ireland and without it we'd have been on the streets when I was a child. So I will forever defend Social Welfare til my dying day...

Likewise.

 

[Ave Maria]

I recommend what Mark Shea says about it in his blog:

VATICAN REVEALS ITSELF AS AGENT OF THE BEAST!!!!! | Catholic and Enjoying It!