Worried about the new document from Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace..

[MoNiCa4316]

I found out about the new document from the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, titled "Toward Reforming the International Financial and Monetary Systems in the Context of Global Public Authority". Based on what I heard about it, it really made me worried. I do not at all agree with a centralized world government or a world currency.. I think this would just be another way to control people.. most importantly, it seems to relate to Revelation.

I can't really figure this out:

- does the Pope agree with this document, did he take part in writing it?
- what is the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace? Are they Bishops, etc?
- Is this an official Church document or not?
- do we have to agree with it?

I read on another forum that it's not part of the Ordinary Magisterium and in fact is not a Vatican document at all, and we don't have to agree with it. However I am now interested in more detail regarding those points. I just want to make sure, this is not Church teaching, and we can disregard it, and it's not from the Pope? we don't need to give religious assent etc??

 

[Michie]

Monica- Please read this.

VATICAN REVEALS ITSELF AS AGENT OF THE BEAST...

 

[MoNiCa4316]

thank you Michie!

what is a pontifical council? I don't think I know..

Ok so I've been doing some research too and it seems to me that we are not bound as Catholics to agree with this document (I mean specifically the part about the world authority)... not even with religious assent. It seems it's a minor document not affiliated with the Magisterium. Maybe someone can confirm that I'm understanding this correctly. It could also be that I'm misunderstanding the document itself and it's not saying what it seemed to be saying.... this often happens with the media.

Some links I saw...

Do whatever He tells you! (Jn 2:5): a take on the recent statement by the vatican regarding the global economy
Just How "Major" Was Monday s Finance Document? | Blogs | NCRegister.com
The new “white paper” from the Pont. Council Justice and Peace. Fr. Z rants like loon. | Fr. Z's Blog – What Does The Prayer Really Say?
More about the “white paper” from the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace | Fr. Z's Blog – What Does The Prayer Really Say?
The Pope, Chaplain to OWS? Rubbish - By George Weigel - The Corner - National Review Online
(this says that the Pope has actually spoken in favour of subsidiarity http://www.catholicleague.org/vatican-council-calls-for-financial-reform/ )

 

[MoNiCa4316]

There is one concern that I have though, Michie in the link that you gave, it talks about how the Church is not necessarily against a one world government... however, - is this actually the correct understanding of Church teaching?? If it's correct, are we bound as Catholics to agree with it? or maybe the Church's understanding of this is something else than the "new world order" etc.

 

[AMDG]

Fact Check: Why Catholics Who Disagree With Justice & Peace White Papers Aren’t “Cafeteria Catholics” | CatholicVote.org

and

http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otn.cfm?id=856

 

[Fantine]

Ah, the advent of the cafeteria Catholic conservatives.

How little it took to make them show their true colors, urged on by the spin doctors who are busily redefining the report before it even hits the legitimate press.

 

[MKJ]

Monica, the Pope hasn't said we meed one world government. He's suggested that there needs to be some kind of international authority or regulatory body to deal with some aspects of the global financial system.

This would not be the first potentially useful international agency around. There is, for example, an international agency that regulates the use of nuclear power. There is the international court. There is international policing. The IMF, World Bank, and WHO. The UN.

One thing is for sure, if you don't have a clear idea of what has been said, or why, it doesn't make much sense to disagree with it.

 

[Michie]

thank you Michie!

what is a pontifical council? I don't think I know..

Ok so I've been doing some research too and it seems to me that we are not bound as Catholics to agree with this document (I mean specifically the part about the world authority)... not even with religious assent. It seems it's a minor document not affiliated with the Magisterium. Maybe someone can confirm that I'm understanding this correctly. It could also be that I'm misunderstanding the document itself and it's not saying what it seemed to be saying.... this often happens with the media.

Some links I saw...

Do whatever He tells you! (Jn 2:5): a take on the recent statement by the vatican regarding the global economy
Just How "Major" Was Monday s Finance Document? | Blogs | NCRegister.com
The new “white paper” from the Pont. Council Justice and Peace. Fr. Z rants like loon. | Fr. Z's Blog – What Does The Prayer Really Say?
More about the “white paper” from the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace | Fr. Z's Blog – What Does The Prayer Really Say?
The Pope, Chaplain to OWS? Rubbish - By George Weigel - The Corner - National Review Online
(this says that the Pope has actually spoken in favour of subsidiarity VATICAN COUNCIL CALLS FOR FINANCIAL REFORM : The Catholic League )

Monica-
A pontifical council is several groups for specific purposes. Like a group for Christian Unity, Justice, Peace, etc. Each is led by a cardinal or archbishop of the Church & he runs the group as its president. These groups are part of the Roman Curia that help the Pope with the governance & guidance of the Church.

 

[Michie]

There is one concern that I have though, Michie in the link that you gave, it talks about how the Church is not necessarily against a one world government... however, - is this actually the correct understanding of Church teaching?? If it's correct, are we bound as Catholics to agree with it? or maybe the Church's understanding of this is something else than the "new world order" etc.

I don't know all the details of what the Church deems to mean as far as a one world banking system, etc. I know from the teachings of the Church that it would mean the common good of all in mind. But this is not something I feel is something to be concerned about at this point. The Holy Spirit guides the Church as far as all of Her infallible teachings go. I have to believe that until I have a reason not to. And this document is basically just throwing opinions & ideas around given current events. I don't want to borrow trouble. Especially with my background & protestant mindset concerning endtime issues.

 

[isshinwhat]

Ah, the advent of the cafeteria Catholic conservatives.

How little it took to make them show their true colors, urged on by the spin doctors who are busily redefining the report before it even hits the legitimate press.

You are showing yourself ignorant again, Fantine. Pontifical Commissions have also recommended the Church relax its stance on contraception, stating that it is not intrinsically evil. We see how well that went over, and what Pope Paul VI's opinion of their study was... As much as you would love this to be something more than it is, it really has no weight within the Church, and is in no way binding on the conscience of Catholics-as you well know.

 

[Michie]

You are showing yourself ignorant again, Fantine. Pontifical Commissions have also recommended the Church relax its stance on contraception, stating that it is not intrinsically evil. We see how well that went over, and what Pope Paul VI's opinion of their study was... As much as you would love this to be something more than it is, it really has no weight within the Church, and is in no way binding on the conscience of Catholics-as you well know.

 

[Fantine]

You are showing yourself ignorant again, Fantine. Pontifical Commissions have also recommended the Church relax its stance on contraception, stating that it is not intrinsically evil. We see how well that went over, and what Pope Paul VI's opinion of their study was... As much as you would love this to be something more than it is, it really has no weight within the Church, and is in no way binding on the conscience of Catholics-as you well know.

What I see here is an enormous opportunity for conservatives to develop a conscience, an opportunity that they are walking away from with blinders on.

 

[ebia]

You are showing yourself ignorant again, Fantine. Pontifical Commissions have also recommended the Church relax its stance on contraception, stating that it is not intrinsically evil. We see how well that went over, and what Pope Paul VI's opinion of their study was... As much as you would love this to be something more than it is, it really has no weight within the Church, and is in no way binding on the conscience of Catholics-as you well know.

What's interesting to the external observer is the scramble among N American conservatives to find reasons they are allowed to not believe it before they even know what it says!

That isn't a sign of being open to learning from the church, whatever the precise status of the document in question; it's an strong indication that in this topic "I believe what (my culture has taught me to) believe and that's not changing."

 

[isshinwhat]

What's interesting to the external observer is the scramble among N American conservatives to find reasons they are allowed to not believe it before they even know what it says!

That isn't a sign of being open to learning from the church, whatever the precise status of the document in question; it's an strong indication that in this topic "I believe what (my culture has taught me to) believe and that's not changing."

You can glean all of that from my statement correcting Fantine? What exactly is my stance on social justice? You and Fantine both feel free to answer...

 

[MKJ]

You can glean all of that from my statement correcting Fantine? What exactly is my stance on social justice? You and Fantine both feel free to answer...

I think ebia was commenting on the whole phenomena, not your comment particularly. All over the place Catholic conservatives, who in some cases don't seem to have a clear idea what was said, seem to be arming themselves with reasons to avoid considering what was said.

There is something a bit odd about that.

 

[ebia]

You can glean all of that from my statement correcting Fantine? What exactly is my stance on social justice? You and Fantine both feel free to answer...

It's a response to the overall phenomenon, that connects to your post in certain ways. It's not necessarily accusing you of behaving in any particular way.

 

[AMDG]

Pontifical Commissions have also recommended the Church relax its stance on contraception, stating that it is not intrinsically evil. We see how well that went over, and what Pope Paul VI's opinion of their study was... <snip> it really has no weight within the Church, and is in no way binding on the conscience of Catholics.

So true.

 

[Gwendolyn]

I think ebia was commenting on the whole phenomena, not your comment particularly. All over the place Catholic conservatives, who in some cases don't seem to have a clear idea what was said, seem to be arming themselves with reasons to avoid considering what was said.

There is something a bit odd about that.

Especially when, in other instances, "conservatives" (hate that word) arm themselves with every possible reason why some lesser document MUST be believed or something.

 

[Needing_Grace]

Especially when, in other instances, "conservatives" (hate that word) arm themselves with every possible reason why some lesser document MUST be believed or something.

There are Catholics who run around with a document put out by a lay-apostolate who claim that it's infallible Catholic teaching and must be followed exactly or risk burning forever in the fires of eternal damnation. It's supposed to be a voter's guide for Catholics who think themselves "serious." These same Catholics also run around mocking a similar document put out by the Bishops of our country.

It's truly amazing the mental gymnastics conservative American Catholics will do in order to maintain their political ideology.

Personally, if I had to identify my ideology, I'd say that I'm a pro-life New Deal democrat. I'm registered Republican (from my protestant days...funny how becoming Catholic made me less "conservative") and haven't changed to "Decline to State" because I'm registered to vote and that's all that really matters.

 

[Fantine]

Originally Posted by isshinwhat
Pontifical Commissions have also recommended the Church relax its stance on contraception, stating that it is not intrinsically evil. We see how well that went over, and what Pope Paul VI's opinion of their study was... <snip> it really has no weight within the Church, and is in no way binding on the conscience of Catholics.

Or perhaps it's in way binding on the conscience of Catholics who don't know what conscience is.