Who did Moses chat with?

[Kristos]

Sabbath school stuff? They don't teach Jesus or incarnation in "Sabbath school", whatever that is (I'm assuming you mean Hebrew School). Plenty of people have seen God, just not in his fully glorified form. God usually appeared to people in the Old Testament through an angel or other medium (Burning Bush).

Exodus 3:2 There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush.


The Word is not an angel.


The references to Moses seeing God's face are not literal, otherwise you have a contradiction just in Exodus alone.

Obviously it's not just an angel because the text goes on to call Him God, and the Lord.

 

[ToxicReboMan]

Jesus told us that no one had ever seen the Father or heard His voice.

Actually, Jesus was only referring to the unbelieving Jews with whom he was speaking when he said this. We can see this from the context. He never said that no one has heard the voice of the Father. What he did say was that "YOU" have never heard his voice or seen his shape. The discourse starts at verse 16. From there we can see that Jesus was speaking to the Jewish leaders who began persecuting him.

“I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent." Jn 5:36-38 NIV​

Consider the following passages..

"Father, glorify your name!” Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him. Jn 12:28-29 NIV​

A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.” Lk 9:35 NIV​

For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain. 2 Peter 1:16-18 NIV​

 

[David64]

Actually, Jesus was only referring to the unbelieving Jews with whom he was speaking when he said this. We can see this from the context. He never said that no one has heard the voice of the Father. What he did say was that "YOU" have never heard his voice or seen his shape. The discourse starts at verse 16. From there we can see that Jesus was speaking to the Jewish leaders who began persecuting him.

“I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent." Jn 5:36-38 NIV
​

Consider the following passages..

"Father, glorify your name!” Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him. Jn 12:28-29 NIV
​

A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.” Lk 9:35 NIV
​

For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain. 2 Peter 1:16-18 NIV
​

I know you probably think you've make some point brilliantly but what point is it you think you've made?
None of these disagree with what I said.

 

[Catherineanne]

Well, since Moses is part of the Old Testament, there was no such thing in the Tanakh regarding any Trinity or Jesus, so the only scriptural conclusion is God.

There may be no such interpretation, but the Trinity is there, all right.

In Genesis Chapter One, God creates by his word. The Spirit of God hovers over the waters, and God walks in the garden in the cool of the evening.

Father, Spirit and Son, right there from the very beginning. It doesn't have to be called a Trinity to be recognised as One God, three persons.

 

[David64]

There may be no such interpretation, but the Trinity is there, all right.

In Genesis Chapter One, God creates by his word. The Spirit of God hovers over the waters, and God walks in the garden in the cool of the evening.

Father, Spirit and Son, right there from the very beginning. It doesn't have to be called a Trinity to be recognised as One God, three persons.

These scriptures you refer to in Gen. don't point to a trinity.
You need to look else where.

 

[patience7]

From Scratch, Patience 7 has it right. I will expand on her comments. Taken from my web-site, www.seekfirstwisdom.com

The Greek Definite Article, "The, this, that," originally a demonstrative pronoun, but in Attic Greek, and in later usage mostly a prepositive article, (the," meaning the one and only, no other.)

1. As a demonstrative pronoun, "this, that."

1-a. Skimpily once in the words cited from the poet Aratus, Acts 17:28, "For we are also his offspring," for of this one (him,) we are also the offspring."

Jesus in the O.T. is at times referred to as, "The Angel of the LORD," or "Angel of Jehovah." Meaning He is revealing the will of His Father, as the #1 messenger. This appearance is called a, "Theophany," meaning "God appearing."

If you see, "An angel of the Lord," An, being an indefinite article, meaning more than one, it is making reference to other angels, or people.

The angel of God, is a title and office of Jesus, when He would temporally manifest Himself in a visible form in the O.T. Example:

Moses at the burning bush, Ex.3:2, "The angel of the LORD appeared unto him = (Moses) in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush."

Ver. 4, now the angel of the LORD is called, "The LORD saw that he (Moses) turned aside, and see this great sight."

Then Scripture states, that it was God who called unto him = (Moses) out of the midst of the bush.

Then the voice said in

ver.5, "I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God."

Ver.7, "The LORD said." ver.8, "I am come down."

ver.14, "God said unto Moses, I Am that I Am."

Read through chap.4. So in this one example of the burning bush, the angel is called, The angel of the LORD, the LORD, God, and, I Am, that I Am. These are all offices, titles, and attributes of our Lord Jesus.

The LORD appeared to Abram many times. In Gen.21, Hagar the mother of Ishmael heard the voice of, "the angel of God," who said, "I will make him = (Ishmael) a great nation."

Judg.13:3, Zorah the mother of Sampson, had an encounter with the angel of the LORD. Also Judg.13:11-13-22-23, "Manoah (the father of Sampson) said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God." Then his wife said, "if the LORD were pleased to kill us, He would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands."

ver.19, where the angel of the LORD ate their offering with them. These are only a few examples of those who had physical, up close encounters with Jesus, "The angel of the LORD," in the O.T.

Hope this helps you.

Phil LaSpino

Sorry to disappoint but I meant that an angel sent from the Lord got Moses attention so God could talk to him. That's all. . . . .

Lord is Jehovah which means God. So verse 4 could simply read as following: And when God saw that Moses turned aside to see, HE called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he (Moses) said, Here am I.

Keeping it simple.

 

[ToxicReboMan]

I know you probably think you've make some point brilliantly but what point is it you think you've made?
None of these disagree with what I said.

My point is only that, according to the Scriptures, people have heard the voice of God the Father.

 

[David64]

My point is only that, according to the Scriptures, people have heard the voice of God the Father.

Nowhere does it say that, so why do you?

 

[LaSpino3]

Patience7, Thanks, but it changes nothing. Not sure what Bible your using, but both the K.J.B. and the N.I.V. say "The angel of the Lord appeared unto him (Moses.) And not, "An angel of the Lord." Like I said in my last post, the definite article tells the whole story.

This was Jesus Christ, the Word. Also, the angel of the Lord, appeared to Moses out of the midst of the Bush. Ver.6, "Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

There is no doubt this was Jesus, and hundreds of other commentators, theologians, Lexiconagraphers, etc., have over the past centuries agree with this teaching.

Now the Jehovah Witnesses don't, but they really don't matter, do they?

Phil LaSpino

 

[David64]

Patience7, Thanks, but it changes nothing. Not sure what Bible your using, but both the K.J.B. and the N.I.V. say "The angel of the Lord appeared unto him (Moses.) And not, "An angel of the Lord." Like I said in my last post, the definite article tells the whole story.

This was Jesus Christ, the Word. Also, the angel of the Lord, appeared to Moses out of the midst of the Bush. Ver.6, "Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

There is no doubt this was Jesus, and hundreds of other commentators, theologians, Lexiconagraphers, etc., have over the past centuries agree with this teaching.

Now the Jehovah Witnesses don't, but they really don't matter, do they?

Phil LaSpino

Right.
Also, an angel of the Lord can be any messager from God, not always an angel like a cherubim or the like.

 

[ToxicReboMan]

Nowhere does it say that, so why do you?

Then who was it that said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased"?

 

[David64]

Then who was it that said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased"?

Well since Jesus said no one had heard the Father it had to be an angel sent by God the Father with a message from Him.

Remember scripture can not be broken.

 

[JohnRabbit]

when the bible refers to the "Angel of the Lord", it is referring to the One we know as the Christ.

moses talked to the One we know as Jesus and here's proof from the bible!

John 1:1(NKJV)
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

word, strongs G3056
G3056

λόγος

logos

log'-os

From G3004; something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation; specifically (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (that is, Christ):—account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say (-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.

He that speaks came to this world in the flesh jn 1:14!

now, look at this:

Hebrews 2:7-9(NKJV)
7 You have made him a little lower than the angels; You have crowned him with glory and honor, And set him over the works of Your hands.
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet.” For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him.
9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

moses didn't see the face of God! (ex 33:20-23), you have to remember that when He appeared in His Glory, He often hid Himself in a thick black cloud!

notice this:

Exodus 24:9-11(NKJV)
9Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel,
10and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity.
11But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank.

now, compare to:

John 1:18(NKJV)
18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (Who declared Whom?)

John 6:46(NKJV)
46Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.

1 John 4:12(NKJV)
12No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.

so, who did moses and the others see? i think it's safe to say it wasn't the Father!

 

[JohnRabbit]

Well since Jesus said no one had heard the Father it had to be an angel sent by God the Father with a message from Him.

Remember scripture can not be broken.

well, let's look at the verse:

John 5:37(NKJV)
37And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

who are the "you" in this verse? the answer is in verse 18!

the jews that Jesus was answering from verse 18 of the same chapter had never heard the voice of the Father.
He did not say "no one".

 

[Lion King]

I believe that Moses spoke with God. Anything more than that would be mere speculation, and I don't deal with wild guesses when it comes to the word of the LORD.

 

[David64]

well, let's look at the verse:

John 5:37(NKJV)
37And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

who are the "you" in this verse? the answer is in verse 18!

the jews that Jesus was answering from verse 18 of the same chapter had never heard the voice of the Father.
He did not say "no one".

Jo. 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Jo. 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.

Jo.5:37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

We need to read all scriptures on the subject.

 

[LaSpino3]

There appears to be a great deal of interest in who Moses, and Abraham, and the rest of the O.T. fathers were speaking to. It's easy, they were speaking to their maker, their Creator, their Lord, Jesus Christ. How can I prove this to satisfy everyone? that easy also.

Ps.40:7, God is peaking, "Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me." Compare with,

Heb.10:5-6-7, "When He (Jesus) cometh into the world, He (God, Ps.40:7,) --- Then said I, Lo, I come in the volume of the book it is written of me to do thy will O God." with

Ver.9, "Then said He (Jesus<) I come to do thy will O God. He taketh away the first (animal and temple sacrifices,) that he may establish the second."

Phil LaSpino

 

[JohnRabbit]

Jo. 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Jo. 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.

Jo.5:37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

We need to read all scriptures on the subject.

maybe you need to reread my post!

again:

the jews that Jesus was answering from verse 18 of the same chapter had never heard the voice of the Father.
He did not say "no one".

 

[patience7]

I believe that Moses spoke with God. Anything more than that would be mere speculation, and I don't deal with wild guesses when it comes to the word of the LORD.

Thank you, I agree.

 

[David64]

Originally Posted by David64

Jo. 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Jo. 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.

Jo.5:37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

We need to read all scriptures on the subject.
​

Originally Posted by JohnRabbit maybe you need to reread my post!

again:

the jews that Jesus was answering from verse 18 of the same chapter had never heard the voice of the Father.
He did not say "no one". [/quote]

It seem obvious that it is you who needs to do the rereading.