The Rule of Scripture ("Sola Scriptura" as Luther and Calvin called it)

[ivebeenshown]

[double post]

 

[ivebeenshown]

Isn't it a bad thing to belong to a church that isn't 100% free from error?

We see from the Scriptures themselves that the Church was not 100% free from error. Paul had to rebuke many members for many things, he even rebuked Peter one time for not practicing what he preached.

Would you have refused to be in communion with Peter and Paul back then because Peter was not 100% free from error?

 

[Sieben]

We see from the Scriptures themselves that the Church was not 100% free from error. Paul had to rebuke many members for many things, he even rebuked Peter one time for not practicing what he preached.

Would you have refused to be in communion with Peter and Paul back then because Peter was not 100% free from error?

They were correcting them because yes they messed up. It was so that they would not remain in their error, which they repented of. A church remaining in error is still bad :/

 

[Philothei]

No church is 100% free of error as the Church is regardless as it is a human institution established by God. It is which one preserves the "covenant" better that we should be concerned about. There are shades of error of course and piles of errors IMHO.

 

[Philothei]

Time to go to bed. Good night and blessings.

Good night Henry and thanks for the convo I truly enjoy talking to you anytime . I love Solas Scripturists as long as they make room for Tradition

 

[ivebeenshown]

They were correcting them because yes they messed up. It was so that they would not remain in their error, which they repented of. A church remaining in error is still bad :/

Ideally we would not live in sin but we just do our best and know that we can approach for forgiveness with all confidence.

 

[razeontherock]

They were correcting them because yes they messed up. It was so that they would not remain in their error, which they repented of. A church remaining in error is still bad :/

This is an important point! And I'm very glad to see both a RC and an EO admitting there is error in every Church. I'm sure you would have greatly enjoyed my first Pastor, and one thing he said was "if you ever find the perfect Church don't join it because as soon as you go it won't be perfect anymore."

I do rather like the analogy of the Church being a hospital, attended by sick people in the process of healing. A very useful Scripture is when Paul said "follow me as I follow Christ." Hopefully one will find more of that in any Church than you would outside of it ...

Guidelines I look for in determining a "good Church:"

who do they say Jesus is?

Do they also otherwise preach the Bible?

If one can actually experience the Love of God in the physical space of the building / grounds, so much the better! There have been times where I've found it to be noticeably strong which is always a good sign, but completely subjective.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Guidelines I look for in determining a "good Church:"

who do they say Jesus is?

Do they also otherwise preach the Bible?

Well, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to go to a church unless it was the Church founded by Christ. That rules out any churches that have started within the last 1000 years...

 

[LinuxUser]

Isn't it a bad thing to belong to a church that isn't 100% free from error?

There is no such thing as 100 percent error free

 

[Fotina]

. . . Christ also loved the Church, and gave Himself for it; that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that He might present it to Himself a glorious Church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish" (Eph. 5:25-27).

 

[Philothei]

This is an important point! And I'm very glad to see both a RC and an EO admitting there is error in every Church. I'm sure you would have greatly enjoyed my first Pastor, and one thing he said was "if you ever find the perfect Church don't join it because as soon as you go it won't be perfect anymore."

I do rather like the analogy of the Church being a hospital, attended by sick people in the process of healing. A very useful Scripture is when Paul said "follow me as I follow Christ." Hopefully one will find more of that in any Church than you would outside of it ...

Guidelines I look for in determining a "good Church:"

who do they say Jesus is?

Do they also otherwise preach the Bible?

If one can actually experience the Love of God in the physical space of the building / grounds, so much the better! There have been times where I've found it to be noticeably strong which is always a good sign, but completely subjective.

Yep! I agree. preaching the Bible....hmmm one has to be careful WHAT kind of message from the Bible they preach and how. Some churches who are not even Christian can preach good things about Jesus but pick and chose things from the Bible that could distort the Holy Trinity etc. That is why creeds are important. IMHO. But I agree that all churches are not 100% percent error free how can they? Only God is error free as we are all humans and err.

I like also C.S. Lewis definition of the Christianity being the corridor and the different churches being the different rooms where one goes to 'rest" from his quest. You open the door and you decide where to stay

 

[sunlover1]

Well, I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to go to a church unless it was the Church founded by Christ. That rules out any churches that have started within the last 1000 years...

There's one church.

There is no such thing as 100 percent error free

Amen.
We're dealing with men, after all.

 

[ivebeenshown]

There's one church.

...no, there really isn't.

Anglican
Lutheran
Assembly of God
Seventh-Day Adventist
Latter-Day Saints
Calvinist
Anabaptist
Southern Baptist
Westboro Baptist

And so on. These are not all the same church, they are not one body, they are not in communion with each other.

 

[sunlover1]

...no, there really isn't.

Anglican
Lutheran
Assembly of God
Seventh-Day Adventist
Latter-Day Saints
Calvinist
Anabaptist
Southern Baptist
Westboro Baptist

And so on. These are not all the same church, they are not one body, they are not in communion with each other.

With all due respect,
Whether they're in communion with one another or not is beside the point.
Is Christ divided? No.
One God, one body.. Either you're a part of the many membered body,
aka "The Church", or you're not.
I can go into a Southern Baptist "building" and find some who are members
of the Church/Body and find some who are not. Same with any of the
different meeting houses.
The church is an organism, not an organization.


Factions, divisions and heresy is another matter altogether.

According to Scripture.
Has Christ been divided into factions?
Was I, Paul, crucified for you?
Were any of you baptized in the name of Paul?
Of course not!

Factions is man's business, but God will dwell where He chooses.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by ivebeenshown
...no, there really isn't.
<snip>

And so on. These are not all the same church, they are not one body, they are not in communion with each other.

With all due respect,
Whether they're in communion with one another or not is beside the point.
Is Christ divided? No.
One God, one body.. Either you're a part of the many membered body, aka "The Church", or you're not.
I can go into a Southern Baptist "building" and find some who are members of the Church/Body and find some who are not. Same with any of the different meeting houses.
The church is an organism, not an organization.

Factions, divisions and heresy is another matter altogether.

Factions is man's business, but God will dwell where He chooses.

Hey Sunny, have you taken this quiz yet? Here is how I came out

http://www.christianforums.com/t7595315-2/#post58634020
What Denomination Are You (A Quiz)

#1 Presbyterian Church USA

#22 Eastern Orthodox Church
#23 Roman Catholic Church
#24 Mormonism

Originally Posted by OuterWater The Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches predate denominations. Denominations are in invention of the protestant reformation.

Then perhaps the OP should rephrase the thread title to "what Church are you"

 

[Sieben]

Hehe, I guess my standards have to be perfect i spose

and it doesnt matter when they were founded for me for me to consider them that. they can be brand new, but if they have the truth over a church thats been around a 1000 years then ill follow them

 

[ivebeenshown]

With all due respect,
Whether they're in communion with one another or not is beside the point.

You refute your own statement with your next words.

Is Christ divided? No.
One God, one body.. Either you're a part of the many membered body,
aka "The Church", or you're not.

The body of Christ is not divided. Churches not in communion with each other are divided. Therefore, these churches are not altogether the body of Christ.

I can go into a Southern Baptist "building" and find some who are members
of the Church/Body and find some who are not. Same with any of the
different meeting houses.

I'm not talking about the buildings of man.

The church is an organism, not an organization.

Incorrect. The Scriptures contain evidence of various governmental offices in the Church, including bishops, elders, and deacons.

Factions, divisions and heresy is another matter altogether.

According to Scripture.
Has Christ been divided into factions?
Was I, Paul, crucified for you?
Were any of you baptized in the name of Paul?
Of course not!

Factions is man's business, but God will dwell where He chooses.

A faction/sect/division is a group that splits off of another group -- such as the Lutheran movement splitting off of the Catholic Church.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Hehe, I guess my standards have to be perfect i spose

and it doesnt matter when they were founded for me for me to consider them that. they can be brand new, but if they have the truth over a church thats been around a 1000 years then ill follow them

The Church is the pillar and support of the truth, so why would you want to be part of any Church besides the one that Christ started?

 

[bbbbbbb]

The Church is the pillar and support of the truth, so why would you want to be part of any Church besides the one that Christ started?

Like it or not, your own denomination is divided. You have your Latin Rite and 22 other rites. In addition, each individual church in your denomination is divided from the other churches and, unless, they can all meet together as a single Church, they will remain divided, at least geographically. They are also now divided linguistically. Gone are the days when your denomination could claim linguistic unity based on the Latin mass.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Like it or not, your own denomination is divided. You have your Latin Rite and 22 other rites.

People from Maine may have different customs than people from Texas, yet they have the same US constitution. United States, not Divided States.

In addition, each individual church in your denomination is divided from the other churches and, unless, they can all meet together as a single Church, they will remain divided, at least geographically.

Alaska and Hawaii are not conjoined to the other 48 states of the US, yet it is the United States, not the Divided States.

They are also now divided linguistically. Gone are the days when your denomination could claim linguistic unity based on the Latin mass.

People from the east coast of the mainland USA speak differently than those from the west coast, and many more speak Spanish, yet it is the United States, not the Divided States.