Jesus vs Paul, law abolishment. A simple answer, from a frog.

[Yab Yum]

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;

That is what I always thought

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones and they are seated on them.
And judgement was given to-them and to-the souls of the ones having been beheaded/pepelekismenwn <3990> because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the Word of the God

 

[Yab Yum]

16That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

Yes and why was Abe's faith counted as righteousness?

Rom 4:17 as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations"--in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.
Rom 4:18 In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, "So shall your offspring be."
Rom 4:19 He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb.
Rom 4:20 No distrust made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,
Rom 4:21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.
Rom 4:22 That is why his faith was "counted to him as righteousness."

Romans 4 is for "yes, this is for you uncircumcised Gentiles too!"

Not "yes, this is for all you people who don't engage in any activity of the mind!"

Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

Rom 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and [then] you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Act 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.'

 

[David64]

What does defeating Satan have to do with taking away/abolishing God's Law

Nothing.............

 

[David64]

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;

Only if they understand it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Yab Yum Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;

Only if they don't understand it.

But of course

Young) Mark 4:12 that seeing they may seeing and not see, and hearing they may hear and not understand,
lest they may turn, and the sins may be forgiven them.'

 

[heymikey80]

The Marrow of Modern Divinity

 

[Frogster]

Yes and why was Abe's faith counted as righteousness?

Rom 4:17 as it is written, "I have made you the father of many nations"--in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.
Rom 4:18 In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, "So shall your offspring be."
Rom 4:19 He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb.
Rom 4:20 No distrust made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,
Rom 4:21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.
Rom 4:22 That is why his faith was "counted to him as righteousness."

Romans 4 is for "yes, this is for you uncircumcised Gentiles too!"

Not "yes, this is for all you people who don't engage in any activity of the mind!"

Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

Rom 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and [then] you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Act 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.'

u have totally mangled Abe, and Pauline usage! How am I wrongGimmie 1..1..verse from paul to show contrary..1

Rom 4;4Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

 

[Frogster]

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;

sinful passions aroused by the law. 7;5! Did David pick up a sweetie, sitting on a longe chair in a bakini, did the lae stop him?

 

[Frogster]

Only if they understand it.

u r prooftexting the historical accouunt of scripture...


Don't go back bro..listen to frogster, I can shoot your 22 ruger better than u, and I know the text!


heb 10:38 but my righteous one shall live by faith,
and if he shrinks back,my soul has no pleasure in him."

 

[David64]

u r prooftexting the historical accouunt of scripture...


Don't go back bro..listen to frogster, I can shoot your 22 ruger better than u, and I know the text!


heb 10:38 but my righteous one shall live by faith,
and if he shrinks back,my soul has no pleasure in him."

If you have faith you will obey the commandments of the one you have faith in and will not go back to your old ways of breaking His commands.

 

[from scratch]

If you have faith you will obey the commandments of the one you have faith in and will not go back to your old ways of breaking His commands.

Which are....

 

[Frogster]

If you have faith you will obey the commandments of the one you have faith in and will not go back to your old ways of breaking His commands.

why can't u admit, the sin of the hebrews, was reverting to the old cov?

citations available...

 

[from scratch]

You have to be kidding. That is too funny.
The Isa. 28:10 concept is what I've been leading you toward all this time.
Of all the scriptures in all the world you had to pick that one.
And Gen. 3:15 is about Christ defeating Satan not doing away with God's Law.
Please stop my side is hurting.

Hope it doesn't bust. Gen 3:15 is long before the law. So it can't possibly be about the law.

 

[David64]

why can't u admit, the sin of the hebrews, was reverting to the old cov?

citations available...

Because that is a lie that has been brought in by ministers of Satan.
That teaching has decieved many and continues to.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

why can't u admit, the sin of the hebrews, was reverting to the old cov?

citations available...

I believe that we try to understand the context of Scripture we must always look to the whole of Scripture, not just one verse, one chapter or one book.

In the Epistle of James, we see "faith without works is dead".

Frogster, your statement is somewhat correct. I can't see how keeping the Law that was given by God is a sin in and of itself. The only "sin" that I see here was relying on the keeping of the law to obtain salvation; a works-based righteousness.

There is no sin if one relies on one's faith for salvation. If one's faith motivates or compels one to keep the laws of the old covenant, how could there be sin in that?

We also see in St. Paul's Epistle to the Ephesians; "By grace are ye saved through faith, that not of yourselves, it is a gift from God, not of works, lest any man should boast".

These two books, one by St. James, one by St. Paul, give context to the Epistle to the Hebrews. The sin is reliance on self, rather than faith In Christ.

Because that is a lie that has been brought in by ministers of Satan.
That teaching has decieved many and continues to.

David, I believe that you are correct that those who teach that following the law is a sin in and of itself are wrong; such denominations and Pastors often substitute their own "legalism" of doos and donts. Likewise, many of these denominations today still teach that we can cooperate in our own salvation; we must do this, we must do that, we must not do something else... or we're going to hell; even our acceptance of Christ and our coming to faith become something that we must do, not something that God does for us; more legalism. In the context of Scripture, I truly believe that this is the same sin which Paul admonished the Hebrews about.

Legalism as a condition of salvation cheapens Christ's sacrifice. It also makes is easy for us to think that we do this and that and that makes us better than someone else. The result is a faith based on personal glory, rather than grace.

Salvation by faith, and keeping the law, as I said are not mutually exclusive. The two can coexist, providing that keeping the law does not become an impediment to true faith in God's grace, through Jesus Christ.

Sola Deo Gloria!

 

[Frogster]

I believe that we try to understand the context of Scripture we must always look to the whole of Scripture, not just one verse, one chapter or one book.

In the Epistle of James, we see "faith without works is dead".

Frogster, your statement is somewhat correct. I can't see how keeping the Law that was given by God is a sin in and of itself. The only "sin" that I see here was relying on the keeping of the law to obtain salvation; a works-based righteousness.

There is no sin if one relies on one's faith for salvation. If one's faith motivates or compels one to keep the laws of the old covenant, how could there be sin in that?

We also see in St. Paul's Epistle to the Ephesians; "By grace are ye saved through faith, that not of yourselves, it is a gift from God, not of works, lest any man should boast".

These two books, one by St. James, one by St. Paul, give context to the Epistle to the Hebrews. The sin is reliance on self, rather than faith In Christ.



David, I believe that you are correct that those who teach that following the law is a sin in and of itself are wrong; such denominations and Pastors often substitute their own "legalism" of doos and donts. Likewise, many of these denominations today still teach that we can cooperate in our own salvation; we must do this, we must do that, we must not do something else... or we're going to hell; even our acceptance of Christ and our coming to faith become something that we must do, not something that God does for us; more legalism. In the context of Scripture, I truly believe that this is the same sin which Paul admonished the Hebrews about.

Legalism as a condition of salvation cheapens Christ's sacrifice. It also makes is easy for us to think that we do this and that and that makes us better than someone else. The result is a faith based on personal glory, rather than grace.

Salvation by faith, and keeping the law, as I said are not mutually exclusive. The two can coexist, providing that keeping the law does not become an impediment to true faith in God's grace, through Jesus Christ.

Sola Deo Gloria!

Because they are trampling on the Spirit of grace and the new cov, according to Heb10:26-29, and then of course, there is the law dynamic of Rom 7, and Gal 5:16-18, that bindes the conscience.

No, I don't think it was sin to give the law, but it was added to arouse sin, and we see those in sin and law, were imprisoned in both ,according to Gal 3:22-23. Interesting that they were imprisoned in both, showing indeed, the Rom 5:20 usage, and the Rom 7 dynamic.

 

[Frogster]

Because that is a lie that has been brought in by ministers of Satan.
That teaching has decieved many and continues to.

Well...if ever you want to disprove what I say using scripture, rather than talking about satan, as an insulting rebuttal, then we can have a conversation of substance, not accusation. For many times now, I have asked "Deut 5", and "you", for scripture, but I never get it. With all due respect, sometimes I feel like I am talking to the same person.

 

[from scratch]

Because that is a lie that has been brought in by ministers of Satan.
That teaching has decieved many and continues to.

Now drive by that sounds awefully like an SDA statement to me. In fact it is close enough I really wonder if it isn't a C & P job.

 

[from scratch]

I believe that we try to understand the context of Scripture we must always look to the whole of Scripture, not just one verse, one chapter or one book.

In the Epistle of James, we see "faith without works is dead".

Frogster, your statement is somewhat correct. I can't see how keeping the Law that was given by God is a sin in and of itself. The only "sin" that I see here was relying on the keeping of the law to obtain salvation; a works-based righteousness.

There is no sin if one relies on one's faith for salvation. If one's faith motivates or compels one to keep the laws of the old covenant, how could there be sin in that?

Faith compels nothing. The Holy Spirit won't lead one to the law. Any one who says such sould examine what they're following. There are two choices well 3 satan, man, or a woman in many cases I see here.

We also see in St. Paul's Epistle to the Ephesians; "By grace are ye saved through faith, that not of yourselves, it is a gift from God, not of works, lest any man should boast".

These two books, one by St. James, one by St. Paul, give context to the Epistle to the Hebrews. The sin is reliance on self, rather than faith In Christ.

And what is a return to the law, if it isn't reliance on self?

David, I believe that you are correct that those who teach that following the law is a sin in and of itself are wrong; such denominations and Pastors often substitute their own "legalism" of doos and donts. Likewise, many of these denominations today still teach that we can cooperate in our own salvation; we must do this, we must do that, we must not do something else... or we're going to hell; even our acceptance of Christ and our coming to faith become something that we must do, not something that God does for us; more legalism. In the context of Scripture, I truly believe that this is the same sin which Paul admonished the Hebrews about.

Yeppers they have a good manipulation game don't they?

Legalism as a condition of salvation cheapens Christ's sacrifice. It also makes is easy for us to think that we do this and that and that makes us better than someone else. The result is a faith based on personal glory, rather than grace.[/qupte]Their attitude makes one wonder about the relationship to God, doesn't it? It does for me.For some here it causes them to wonder about their relationship with God. Not a very desirable out come.

Salvation by faith, and keeping the law, as I said are not mutually exclusive. The two can coexist, providing that keeping the law does not become an impediment to true faith in God's grace, through Jesus Christ.

as relates to salvation I think they are mutually excleusive per Gal 5:4.

Sola Deo Gloria!