Sex IS a need, for some.

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Created2Write

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I haven't read through this thread, but I am responding to the bold type.Sex isn't secondary at all, as in, unimportant in any way. But, it is fruit that is born out of a good relationship. Think of this analagy. Is an apple secondary to the apple tree? Of course it's not, in fact, it is the part we eat, and gain nourishment from. However, it would be absurd to focus on getting an apple to grow, without first making sure that the whole plant is healthy. The apple will grow, when the apple tree is healthy, and getting all that it needs to grow and thrive. On the other hand, no fruit can grow from the tree, if the tree is sickly and dying.

I disagree. There are people who have marriages that are sexless for no reason.

Moreover, I disagree that sex will just "naturally" happen if everything else is in place. I believe maintaining a healthy sex life takes work, just like maintaining effective communication takes work. Even in a loving, healthy relationship you can't just communicate however you see fit. We have to do our best to communicate in ways our spouse will understand. As an example, my husband responds with more logic and I with more emotion. When he communicates with me he has to try and see things from my perspective, with emotions. When I communicate with him I have to try and see things from his perspective, with logic. I can't just say, "Oh well since everything else in our marriage is great, this will all just come naturally." That's very naive, imo.

Sex is the same way. It takes effort from both spouses to not only express love, respect and commitment outside of the bedroom, but also inside. I know I wouldn't be emotionally or physically satisfied if my husband just waited for it all to "naturally" happen. Cause in our marriage, it doesn't. It takes effort and is even more rewarding because of the effort it takes to maintain it. JMO.
 
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hijklmnop

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So.....yet again.....where has anyone said that sex is their god?

Where has anyone advocated sex that is from greed and selfish-ambition?

Honestly mk, I haven't the faintest idea where you're getting these things from because no one here has said anything about any of this.

It boils down to this in my mind: either sex is important, or it is not. To some in this thread sex is important. It's not the only thing that is important, but it is equally important in the relationship. No, you can't have healthy sex without respect, love and trust. But to some of us you can't have truly effective love, respect and trust without sex either.

It seems that to others here, sex is not very important. Which is fine. If it's working for you and your married is flourishing with that, then I see nothing wrong with it. But don't misunderstand those of us who do hold sex as a top priority...as a need. We aren't worshipping sex, we aren't making it a god, and the devil certainly is not using sex in our marriages as a way to divide and destroy. In fact, in my marriage that's one reason we hold sex so high on our list. It's one of the main things that keeps us totally and completely connected. Without sex in the relationship the devil has a much stronger hold, imo.

Some things cannot be boiled down to the simplest, most black-and-white answers. I can say sex is important, as I do believe it is. However, I would not also call it a "top priority" and I do not believe it's "equally" important to the emotional/spiritual qualities that make up the relationship such as love, respect, honesty, trust, etc. If those things aren't present in such a way that both spouses feel inclined to express their love to each other in this way, that being by making love, then I think it is self-gratifying to expect sex just because there's a ring on the finger. It's too black and white and too legalistic for my taste. I really don't get why people see that as so negative and discouraging. What is so bad about expecting a relationship to be healthy before jumping in the sheets? I'm not demanding perfection; but I am requiring emotional intimacy to be present before I can be physically intimate. I also do not equate sex with love. I see sex as one way, merely one way, to express love. It can also be had, within a marriage or without a marriage, without emotion or love behind it which imo is unhealthy for both parties involved. Just because it's happening, and the two partners are married to each other, doesn't mean it's healthy or helpful to their relationship as a whole. It can in fact be quite the opposite, and was in my relationship for quite some time. Legalistically, I figured it should be happening, so we made darn sure it did. And I'm not saying it wasn't enjoyable. We took pride in our great sex life no matter what other difficulties we may have been facing in our relationship. But in the big picture, looking back, we were using sex, even with each other, in a negative and unhealthy, dishonest, Band-Aid solution, codependent way. I regret it. No one's saying that married people should avoid sex or be afraid of it or think it's "bad" or any of the other wierd things being inferred in this thread...a few of us are just expressing a different view of sex's role in marriage than that it should be happening whether the rest of the relationship is good or not, and that it is always positive when occurring within marriage as long as there aren't crazy extremes like infidelity or abuse (although it's even been argued that it's still important during/right after infidelity, which makes me gag a little). I love sex; but I don't see it as "important", a "need" or a "priority" because I don't want to fixate on and force the issue if the other, more-important-to-us-issues are on shaky ground. Why would I want to express intimacy and love if I'm not feeling it or experiencing it outside of the sheets? To me that rings false. It can be a lie to ourselves to cover up the scary truth. If that possibility doesn't bother you or you don't think it's valid, ignore the feedback and go at it, by all means...but it's not for me. I'd rather go without while working to get the relationship or whatever else (there can be other issues preventing sex) back to where it needs to be in order for that to happen naturally and healthfully again.
 
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hijklmnop

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I disagree. There are people who have marriages that are sexless for no reason.

Moreover, I disagree that sex will just "naturally" happen if everything else is in place. I believe maintaining a healthy sex life takes work, just like maintaining effective communication takes work. Even in a loving, healthy relationship you can't just communicate however you see fit. We have to do our best to communicate in ways our spouse will understand. As an example, my husband responds with more logic and I with more emotion. When he communicates with me he has to try and see things from my perspective, with emotions. When I communicate with him I have to try and see things from his perspective, with logic. I can't just say, "Oh well since everything else in our marriage is great, this will all just come naturally." That's very naive, imo.

Sex is the same way. It takes effort from both spouses to not only express love, respect and commitment outside of the bedroom, but also inside. I know I wouldn't be emotionally or physically satisfied if my husband just waited for it all to "naturally" happen. Cause in our marriage, it doesn't. It takes effort and is even more rewarding because of the effort it takes to maintain it. JMO.

IME, working at sex meant working against my natural instincts at times. Had I not been so keen at squelching my natural, God-given instincts in order to try and keep our marriage healthy via sex, I might have been more awake to some other things...and my h might have been more awakened too.

I also disagree that there are ANY sexless marriages that are that way "for no reason." If you want to say "for no fault of the spouse" I would absolutely agree, but not for no reason. There's always a reason; I guess you just don't see that potential reason as being valid.
 
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chaz345

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I haven't read through this thread, but I am responding to the bold type.Sex isn't secondary at all, as in, unimportant in any way. But, it is fruit that is born out of a good relationship. Think of this analagy. Is an apple secondary to the apple tree? Of course it's not, in fact, it is the part we eat, and gain nourishment from. However, it would be absurd to focus on getting an apple to grow, without first making sure that the whole plant is healthy. The apple will grow, when the apple tree is healthy, and getting all that it needs to grow and thrive. On the other hand, no fruit can grow from the tree, if the tree is sickly and dying.

I disagree. Sex is not JUST the fruit of the good relationship, it's a key ingredient in it. Not the only ingredient, and not the first, but definitely an essential one.
 
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chaz345

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Some things cannot be boiled down to the simplest, most black-and-white answers. I can say sex is important, as I do believe it is. However, I would not also call it a "top priority" and I do not believe it's "equally" important to the emotional/spiritual qualities that make up the relationship such as love, respect, honesty, trust, etc. If those things aren't present in such a way that both spouses feel inclined to express their love to each other in this way, that being by making love, then I think it is self-gratifying to expect sex just because there's a ring on the finger. It's too black and white and too legalistic for my taste. I really don't get why people see that as so negative and discouraging. What is so bad about expecting a relationship to be healthy before jumping in the sheets? I'm not demanding perfection; but I am requiring emotional intimacy to be present before I can be physically intimate. I also do not equate sex with love. I see sex as one way, merely one way, to express love. It can also be had, within a marriage or without a marriage, without emotion or love behind it which imo is unhealthy for both parties involved. Just because it's happening, and the two partners are married to each other, doesn't mean it's healthy or helpful to their relationship as a whole. It can in fact be quite the opposite, and was in my relationship for quite some time. Legalistically, I figured it should be happening, so we made darn sure it did. And I'm not saying it wasn't enjoyable. We took pride in our great sex life no matter what other difficulties we may have been facing in our relationship. But in the big picture, looking back, we were using sex, even with each other, in a negative and unhealthy, dishonest, Band-Aid solution, codependent way. I regret it. No one's saying that married people should avoid sex or be afraid of it or think it's "bad" or any of the other wierd things being inferred in this thread...a few of us are just expressing a different view of sex's role in marriage than that it should be happening whether the rest of the relationship is good or not, and that it is always positive when occurring within marriage as long as there aren't crazy extremes like infidelity or abuse (although it's even been argued that it's still important during/right after infidelity, which makes me gag a little). I love sex; but I don't see it as "important", a "need" or a "priority" because I don't want to fixate on and force the issue if the other, more-important-to-us-issues are on shaky ground. Why would I want to express intimacy and love if I'm not feeling it or experiencing it outside of the sheets? To me that rings false. It can be a lie to ourselves to cover up the scary truth. If that possibility doesn't bother you or you don't think it's valid, ignore the feedback and go at it, by all means...but it's not for me. I'd rather go without while working to get the relationship or whatever else (there can be other issues preventing sex) back to where it needs to be in order for that to happen naturally and healthfully again.

But no one is suggesting sex without intimacy emotional and otherwise existing first. All that's being said is that sex is more than an expression or reflection of those things. Sex is an essential ingredient in those things existing to their fullest extent. It both reflects and completes/deepens them.
 
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I have a great example.

Imagine this: I'm married to a woman who has really let herself go. Like we are talking fat enough that she is just simply fat. I see a woman I work or volunteer with; she's beautiful by anyone's standards and we like each other.

Me turning to my wife is not just fidelity. I could just be afraid of sin and not let myself be tempted. But there is more going on than that. Instead I encourage myself to respond to my wife. The weight problem is a years long struggle she has not been able to overcome. Nevertheless when I make love to her I teach myself to love her well. I treat her better than I would nave treated the obviously beautiful woman, because she is my wife and I love her.

The two do go together, but the sex is also important.
 
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Avniel

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A sexless marriage is basically a great friendship i love all my friends but in order to experience the depth of romantic love sexual interaction must be made. That is the biggest difference between love for a friend and spouse.

In the bible it states it is better to marry then sin so clearly there is a deeper spiritual side to sex. I mean if my marriage was sexless I would rather just be friends.
 
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Conservativation

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I disagree. Sex is not JUST the fruit of the good relationship, it's a key ingredient in it. Not the only ingredient, and not the first, but definitely an essential one.

Its one of the roots...not a fruit

The analogy seems to forget where the apple seed came from
 
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roseread

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IME, working at sex meant working against my natural instincts at times. Had I not been so keen at squelching my natural, God-given instincts in order to try and keep our marriage healthy via sex, I might have been more awake to some other things...and my h might have been more awakened too.

I also disagree that there are ANY sexless marriages that are that way "for no reason." If you want to say "for no fault of the spouse" I would absolutely agree, but not for no reason. There's always a reason; I guess you just don't see that potential reason as being valid.

But whether or not the reason is seen as valid, doesn't make it any easier. Esp. when, as in my own situation, when my husband doesn't say why, just that he no longer wants sex and I should just deal with it. He wont tell me a reason. Just that he is happy this way and I should accept it. How would he feel if I had an affair and told him I was happy this way and he should just accept it?
 
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dallasapple

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I disagree. There are people who have marriages that are sexless for no reason.

Moreover, I disagree that sex will just "naturally" happen if everything else is in place. I believe maintaining a healthy sex life takes work, just like maintaining effective communication takes work. Even in a loving, healthy relationship you can't just communicate however you see fit. We have to do our best to communicate in ways our spouse will understand. As an example, my husband responds with more logic and I with more emotion. When he communicates with me he has to try and see things from my perspective, with emotions. When I communicate with him I have to try and see things from his perspective, with logic. I can't just say, "Oh well since everything else in our marriage is great, this will all just come naturally." That's very naive, imo.

Sex is the same way. It takes effort from both spouses to not only express love, respect and commitment outside of the bedroom, but also inside. I know I wouldn't be emotionally or physically satisfied if my husband just waited for it all to "naturally" happen. Cause in our marriage, it doesn't. It takes effort and is even more rewarding because of the effort it takes to maintain it. JMO.

You can disagree but it does happen naturally and im here to tell you I know it from personal experience in a 23 year long marriage.When we feel close and connected sex is very spontaneous..no need to plan it..no need to research how to have enjoyable sex..unless you call siezing the moment "work and effort' which in that case NOTHING happens naturally but for birth and death but nothing in between..

I would agree however though that it would take a LOT of effort to try and communicate with somone who communicated with emotions and no logic..I cant imagine..but then again Im a logical person.And most of the people I communicate with also possess logic..so its not some sort of strain and enourmous effort to undesrtand them.My husband is more a "speaking in code" type person or in riddles..thats bad enough..I cant imagine if he also didnt have an ability to use logic..YIKES.

Anyway..its better not to assume IMHO that its for the average person that sex takes enourmous effort and work and planning..same with communication ..It does in fact come naturally for some people.

Dallas
 
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Just a reality check. Humans might be special but essentially we are living beings. Sex exists for procreation and pleasure. It can and should be also for drawing a couple closer together among other things.

So on that basis let's be honest, sex enjoyable sex can happen without morality, relationship or love. The Bible tells us that this happens best in the context of marriage.
 
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Athene

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Does the Bible say that? I've read verses to the effect of, sex outside of marriage is sinful and displeasing to God, I can't recall any verses which speak of the quality of sex and how that varies depending on ones relationship status.
 
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Athene

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If DH is one of the significant percentage of men who suffers erectile dysfunction in his 40's, I won't ditch him for another man. I won't have an affair. Intimacy can be expressed through different ways, other then the penetration of one person by another.
 
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Does the Bible say that? I've read verses to the effect of, sex outside of marriage is sinful and displeasing to God, I can't recall any verses which speak of the quality of sex and how that varies depending on ones relationship status.

Read it again please.
 
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JanniGirl

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Just a reality check. Humans might be special but essentially we are living beings. Sex exists for procreation and pleasure. It can and should be also for drawing a couple closer together among other things.

So on that basis let's be honest, sex enjoyable sex can happen without morality, relationship or love. The Bible tells us that this happens best in the context of marriage.


Enjoyable physically, sure. If you just want to "get off" and that's what you deem the purpose of sex is. Yes.

So sad, if that's all that some can conceive sex as, though. In my opinion its MUCH more than that.
 
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Athene

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Enjoyable physically, sure. If you just want to "get off" and that's what you deem the purpose of sex is. Yes.

So sad, if that's all that some can conceive sex as, though. In my opinion its MUCH more than that.

Welp, given what usually happens to blokes after [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] .....
 
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mkgal1

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So on that basis let's be honest, sex enjoyable sex can happen without morality, relationship or love. The Bible tells us that this happens best in the context of marriage.
Can you clarify what the "this" stands for, McS?

Is it...."The Bible tells us that this (sex?) happens best in the context of marriage."?

Then, one needs to look at what the Bible says about marriage....and relationships with others, in general. As some have often suggested--marriage is almost exempt from those same principles...I disagree.....it's my belief that marriage is that and a lot more. IOW.....the standards are higher.....not lower for the relational part of marriage.
 
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Enjoyable physically, sure. If you just want to "get off" and that's what you deem the purpose of sex is. Yes.

So sad, if that's all that some can conceive sex as, though. In my opinion its MUCH more than that.

Yes, well obviously we can conceive and have children without love, parents or family, but they are raised best in this context. The thing itself, at it's most stark, is breeding and growth. But the Bible shows by faith and truth how children are to be raised by loving discipline, care and guidance, with God's example of parenting.

The same thing applies to sex. Sex is basically a biological function. In the context of a loving marriage it comes to fruition. We are not disagreeing but perhaps you find my words distasteful.

I gave a previous example of overcoming a lack of attraction to treat a spouse lovingly, and the example of erectile dysfunction was given by Athene. These are examples of how to give sex lovingly, overcoming whatever impatience or lack of desire we might feel to seek out the needs of our spouse.
 
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mkgal1

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Welp, given what usually happens to blokes after [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] .....
Not exactly the opportunity to "draw each other closer" is it? (IMO, anyway). More of an attitude of "I am SO grateful for you....right now."

I'm going to look for something that I found awhile ago that was interesting about our brain chemicals after [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].
 
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