saints of this and that (moved from GT)

[Lion King]

Only if you read it with a vivid imagination because there isn't ONE example of either Jesus or another apostle praying to anyone other than God, much less a deceased person, not to mention at least one bad example in the bible of Saul trying to communicate with Samuel.
oh well.

I respect that there are differences of opinion.
I'm just averse to letting my imagination color them.

Couldn't have said it any better, myself.

I do wonder sometimes though, if people are easily deceived by these pagan doctrines, can you imagine what it will be like when the anti-christ arrives onto the scene?

 

[sunlover1]

Why not put in a word for yourself?
That effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availath much!
YOU can move mountains!!
Besides, the "saint present with God", isn't privy to your voice.
Or didja think that present with the lord meant omniscient?

The Biblical evidence is actually contrary, but oh well.

That would be unnecessary.

Where does the Bible say that saints can hear your prayers?

But seriously, the point isn't simply getting others to do my praying for me, it's getting others to pray with me.

Here's what I read, so it's what I thought you meant..sorry.

Originally Posted by Jipsah

... So why not ask a saint who's present with the Lord to put in a word for you?
​

There are differences of opinion on that and I don't really have a firm opinion on it one way or another. But I'm not adverse to asking the Mother of our Lord or one of the other saints to jine in with me on important stuff just in case.

But what if you're "praying to the dead".. Worse yet, what if you're praying
to demon?
This is serious business and God has made it SO clear that we don't communicate
with the dead.
Communication is the basis of life and so the devil will try everything
to trick Christians and laugh while we play into his hands.
I'd seriously stop such a futile and devlish practice if you're involved in such.
Just my opinion offered in love.

No, but then again I'm not omniscient (although it may seem so from time to time, nyuk nyuk) but I can manage to hear people talking to me now and then when the wind is just right.

I'm guessing you're messing around..
Seriously though, The saints in the OT and NT never prayed to anyone but
The Father.. Why would we follow things that are not apostolic?
kwim?

 

[sunlover1]

Its actually somewhat insulting that you think people don't.



The Biblical evidence is actually contrary, but oh well.



That would be unnecessary.

1. “When you come into the land which the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you.” (Deuteronomy 18:9)
2. “Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.” (Leviticus 19:31)
3. “And the person who turns after mediums and familiar spirits, to prostitute himself with them, I will set My face against that person and cut him off from his people.” (Leviticus 20:6)
4. “So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had committed against the Lord, because he did not keep the word of the Lord, and also because he consulted a medium for guidance.” (1 Chronicles 10:13)

PLEASE reconsider

 

[Chrysostoma]

One of the problems we run into with this kind of discussion is the divergent views on what our authority in matters of theology is. Cyberlizard, would you be willing to rephrase your question a bit? I think that those who are from Orthodox and Catholic persuasions would be happy to explain the 'why' behind their praxis, especially if some of you could refrain from making accusatory statements that imply that we are communing with the dead or praying to demons unaware. I think that this could be a profitable discussion if we could please avoid attacking one another and instead seek to understand the "why" behind our respective praxes. In Christ,
Hannah

Sent from my iPhone using CF

 

[Rick Otto]

One of the problems we run into with this kind of discussion is the divergent views on what our authority in matters of theology is. Cyberlizard, would you be willing to rephrase your question a bit? I think that those who are from Orthodox and Catholic persuasions would be happy to explain the 'why' behind their praxis, especially if some of you could refrain from making accusatory statements that imply that we are communing with the dead or praying to demons unaware. I think that this could be a profitable discussion if we could please avoid attacking one another and instead seek to understand the "why" behind our respective praxes. In Christ,
Hannah

Sent from my iPhone using CF

Hannah,it is a fact, not an accusation, that this is attempting communication with the deceased. I too think it could be a profitable discussion if that were admitted and if the hypersensitivity and feelings of being attacked were moderated by the realization this is a forum for debate, not personal affirmation.

 

[revrobor]

How sad that some people actually believe that because a group of men got together and declared a dead person a "saint" that the person comes alive and can hear prayers. There is not Scriptural authority for such nonsense. Those believers who die are with the Lord and there is no evidence of any kind that they are still connected with this life. Jesus (not Mary or any "saint") is our intercessor to God. No One else.

 

[Rhamiel]

How sad that some people actually believe that because a group of men got together and declared a dead person a "saint" that the person comes alive and can hear prayers. There is not Scriptural authority for such nonsense. Those believers who die are with the Lord and there is no evidence of any kind that they are still connected with this life. Jesus (not Mary or any "saint") is our intercessor to God. No One else.

no one else?
so you do not pray for others? you only pray for yourself
because, if you pray for anyone else you would be acting as an intercessor between them and God

 

[revrobor]

Yes, but I am alive in this life and I pray to Jesus or to our Heavenly Father not some dead person.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

.


Some of my thoughts and questions.....


1. There is ZERO evidence that any who have died (whether now in heaven, hell or some other alternative) can "hear" anything. In fact, as far as we know at this point, our sense of hearing terminates at death, for all humans.

2. Yes, the Bible proclaims that GOD does hear our prayers. We know of no other.

3. Yes, one can request others to pray FOR us. However, in order to so request, they'd need to be able to hear or read or otherwise know about that request, would they not? What assurance do I have that George Washington knows the thoughts of every one of the 7 billion people on the planet? How would I convey my requests to him?

4. One of the advantages of asking others to pray for us is to gain their support, counsel and perhaps accountability - they do far more than just pray for us, they care and support and counsel and help. How does George Washington or Mary or John Wayne or any other now "passed on" provide this counsel, support and accountability to me or any other?

5. Since we know God DOES hear us and CAN answer prayer, and since we are instructed by God to pray to HIM (no mention of George Washington, John Wayne, my great uncle who died in WW2 or Mary), might it be good to do that? While it may not HURT to pray to John Wayne, might our focus, faith and time be more wise in praying to God as God instructed us to do?




.

 

[Rhamiel]

Yes, but I am alive in this life and I pray to Jesus or to our Heavenly Father not some dead person.

Jesus (not Mary or any "saint") is our intercessor to God. No One else.

so first it is "no one else" and now it is "well yes I am alive"

so what is it? is having any intercessor bad or just having one who is dead bad?
because when you pray for anyone you act as an intercessor
when we ask the Saints in heaven to pray for us to the Lord our God then they are acting a an intercessor, same as you

 

[revrobor]

so first it is "no one else" and now it is "well yes I am alive"

so what is it? is having any intercessor bad or just having one who is dead bad?
because when you pray for anyone you act as an intercessor
when we ask the Saints in heaven to pray for us to the Lord our God then they are acting a an intercessor, same as you

The Bible instructs us to pray for one another. It DOES NOT tell us to pray to dead people. You belong to a religion that believes in praying to dead people. I will not allow you to get me into an argument about it. Your religion is wrong about that and that's all there is to it. Try following Scripture rather that the false teachings you get from your religion.

 

[Mark_Sam]

If the saints in heaven want to pray for me, that's fine, but I'm not going to ask them to do so.

 

[VolRaider]

But they are dead. Scripture tells us not to commune with the dead.

The saints are not dead. They are alive in Christ, and I would like to think they are cheering us on when we do God's will!

 

[VolRaider]

Anybody know the patron saint for volunteers? My football team (UT) has really stunk it up the last few years, and I think they need some divine intervention!!

 

[Dorothea]

I would like to know why some people think those souls who depart this life and are in the presence of Christ have the same limited capabilities as those people living on earth.

 

[revrobor]

The saints are not dead. They are alive in Christ, and I would like to think they are cheering us on when we do God's will!

It may make you feel good but that's fantasy stuff.

 

[Rhamiel]

The Bible instructs us to pray for one another. It DOES NOT tell us to pray to dead people. You belong to a religion that believes in praying to dead people. I will not allow you to get me into an argument about it. Your religion is wrong about that and that's all there is to it. Try following Scripture rather that the false teachings you get from your religion.

I do follow the Scripture
scripture does not talk agianst asking those in heaven to pray for us

the referance that people are using are way off
the witch of endor? that is witchcraft and necromancy, seeking to CONTROL the dead, seeking to tell the future

this is not what we are doing, we ask those in heaven to pray for us just like we ask people on earth to pray for us

 

[revrobor]

I would like to know why some people think those souls who depart this life and are in the presence of Christ have the same limited capabilities as those people living on earth.

There is no Scriptural evidence to indicate that those who have gone to be with Jesus before us are able to see or hear what is going on here on Earth.

 

[Rhamiel]

It may make you feel good but that's fantasy stuff.

So Moses standing next to Jesus on the mountain was fantasy?
blasphamy!!!!!!

God is God of the living

 

[revrobor]

So Moses standing next to Jesus on the mountain was fantasy?
blasphamy!!!!!!

God is God of the living

Jesus is God, not human, and can do anything He wants.