How some creationists pushed me away from christianity

[Non sequitur]

Well, they could pay right ? and be set free ? The eternal reward or eternal punishment is 100 % up to us period . God isn't a cruel sadist , Satan on the other hand is, and spends every day all day , trying to deceive you . Trying to make you feel very " smart" and prideful , until you are mocking God in a public forum .

Yes, they could pay the mafia and not be killed.

That's called extortion and coercion.

 

[MoonLancer]

In the Bible if Jesus uses a name then it is a real person.
Adam, Eve, Noah are all real people that are in the geneology of Jesus.

I'm afraid simply making a statement without anything to back it up is not very convincing.

Isn't anyone that dies in their sin, willing to die for a lie? The serpent deceived Eve and that resulted in death. Then the question is, what is the second death? Who is able to excape the second death. Because we know that liars are not going to excape the second death.

this does not address my point or issue. The other poster made the assertion that people would not sacrifice themselves for an untrue cause. and that somehow this shows that Christianity is true. People sacrifice themselves for untrue causes all the time. Christians make this agument quit a bit, and its bunk. Real world examples show it to be wrong.

 

[underheaven]

Are we really having this conversation?

There are several kinds of laws, for instance in the United States, of which includes criminal law, again for instance. If I am caught breaking said law, law enforcement, through the legal system, will punish me for it.

There is, however, no cosmic law or cosmic law enforcement and therefore no cosmic consequences (e.g. "karma"). You do understand the difference between the two, right?

You say there is no cosmic law,but that is patent nonsense.
The whole universe works on a system of interactive laws which
when changed only slightly would send all of us ,the planets,and
the other universes into total destruct mode .
While not being a scientist in this field,anyone who reads knows this.:o

 

[Golden Yak]

You say there is no cosmic law,but that is patent nonsense.
The whole universe works on a system of interactive laws which
when changed only slightly would send all of us ,the planets,and
the other universes into total destruct mode .
While not being a scientist in this field,anyone who reads knows this.:o

You realize he's talking about the concept of karma, not the laws of physics.

I mean, it's right there in the quote you made.

 

[Non sequitur]

You say there is no cosmic law,but that is patent nonsense.
The whole universe works on a system of interactive laws which
when changed only slightly would send all of us ,the planets,and
the other universes into total destruct mode .
While not being a scientist in this field,anyone who reads knows this.:o

Nobody is arguing laws.

You kinda left out the point of the statement; there are no cosmic consequences (karma).

 

[underheaven]

There are many scientific reasons to believe in God.

1. The universe is temporary. It had a beginning at the big bang and it will have an end when all the hydrogen in the universe is consumed by stars. The end is mandated by the second law of thermodynamics. If the universe had a beginning, it needs a creation mechanism. There are some naturalistic ideas about how this could have happened without God, but these are highly speculative ideas that lack any form of evidence at all.

2. The universe is extremely fine-tuned for life. This is evident in the fundamental constants of physics. Many of these parameters are so sensitive, that a minute change would render our universe lifeless. Not just life, but any complexity at all requires a narrow range of values for these constants. (search google for "rareuniverse" for more about this)

3. the bible and the geological record is in excellent agreement if one has an old earth view of the Genesis creation account. (search google for "rareuniverse timeline" for more info)

4. God uses the forces of nature to fulfill His purposes. The uncertainty principle puts a degree of apparent randomness into the world. Creating this mechanism, God put a fine adjustment knob into every elementary particle in the universe. By this he can control everything without violating a single law of nature.

What God wants from His created subjects is not just belief but love. He loves us and wants us to love Him in return. It's that simple. He gave His Son to die in the hands of men so that we would know his love for us, and know how to have a relationship with Him. Knowing Jesus is to know God, loving Jesus is to love God, they are One.

Suberb

 

[Non sequitur]

There are many scientific reasons to believe in God.

1. The universe is temporary. It had a beginning at the big bang and it will have an end when all the hydrogen in the universe is consumed by stars. The end is mandated by the second law of thermodynamics. If the universe had a beginning, it needs a creation mechanism. There are some naturalistic ideas about how this could have happened without God, but these are highly speculative ideas that lack any form of evidence at all.

2. The universe is extremely fine-tuned for life. This is evident in the fundamental constants of physics. Many of these parameters are so sensitive, that a minute change would render our universe lifeless. Not just life, but any complexity at all requires a narrow range of values for these constants. (search google for "rareuniverse" for more about this)

3. the bible and the geological record is in excellent agreement if one has an old earth view of the Genesis creation account. (search google for "rareuniverse timeline" for more info)

4. God uses the forces of nature to fulfill His purposes. The uncertainty principle puts a degree of apparent randomness into the world. Creating this mechanism, God put a fine adjustment knob into every elementary particle in the universe. By this he can control everything without violating a single law of nature.

What God wants from His created subjects is not just belief but love. He loves us and wants us to love Him in return. It's that simple. He gave His Son to die in the hands of men so that we would know his love for us, and know how to have a relationship with Him. Knowing Jesus is to know God, loving Jesus is to love God, they are One.

Correlation does not imply causation.

If anything, those might be reasons for believing in a "god" or "gods", but it gives no direction as to which is the "correct" one.

 

[Catherineanne]

So, why is there a Hell in the first place?

Good question.

God created the Universe, in which he is omnipresent; it all places at all times, sustaining life by his love. He then created mankind, and gave us free will to either follow his wishes for our lives, or to go our own sweet way.

When we go our own sweet way, sometimes we do evil things. If in the process of doing those evil things God were to remain just as present as he is when we are in a state of Grace, we would be destroyed; his holiness would destroy the evil, and it would also destroy us along with it.

In order not to destroy everyone who is being disobedient to his will, God withdraws his presence from that place where they are, during the time when they are acting contrary to his will. This is an act of mercy, in order to give them time to repent and return to him.

The place or existence without the active presence of God is hell. The worst kind of hell is on earth, and involves living a life directly contrary to the will of God, in the full knowledge that he has forbidden that kind of life. And for what is forbidden most strongly, see the ten commandments.

When we accept the Lord and submit once more to his will, then he is able to enter fully into our hearts and our lives, and the more we conform ourselves to his will, the less of hell we encounter, and the more of eternity.

 

[Catherineanne]

I most certainly was.

In that case, you are most definitely in.

Remember, the prodigal son wandered a very long way away, but he was never disinherited.

 

[Catherineanne]

Catherineanne: Your link doesn't cite sources, just makes claims.

The sources are contained on the link, you noodle.

 

[Catherineanne]

I am not sure if this is an accurate statement. It is too easy to say that God pick and chooses who comes to Him and who doesn't. When the Bible says that God wants all to come to Him. So God does prompt the seeking but some are not getting the signal for some reason and God only knows why.

You have two choices.

A God is always the agent of our salvation, which is standard orthodox belief for pretty well the whole of Christendom. Which in turn is pretty good going, considering the amount of disagreement that there is around. God does not 'pick and choose' as if we are on some kind of buffet. God calls those he chooses to call, at the time he chooses to call them, and his voice does not go unanswered.

As for why some people are called early in life, and others later, well that one is covered by the parable of the vineyard; sometimes it just happens that way.

B Man is capable of effecting his own salvation, which is heresy from the high to the low churches. Aka works theology.

Up to you, really.

 

[Non sequitur]

The sources are contained on the link, you noodle.

I could find no sources it cited for its claims, either

 

[Catherineanne]

Well, a loving god would most certainly not send one of his own children to an eternity in hell for using the very brains he gave them, especially knowing how they operate.

See you there

God does not send anyone to hell. Those who go there do so because they choose to. There is no eternal torment, except that of being without God.

Hell is choosing to live without God. You won't see me there, because I choose to live in obedience to God.

 

[Catherineanne]

(bolding mine)

I wonder why it is that god seems to reveal himself to people when they are in a "bad spot" in their lives, so to speak. It seems to me that this happens far more often than not, and I wonder what the reason for this is. I also wonder had I ever been in a truly bad spot in my own life, if I would've had some kind of spiritual "experience." That's not to say that I haven't had what I consider to be hard times in my life, but I realize that I've had it better than a lot of other folks.

This is certainly true. I have had a very difficult few (ie more than 20) years, and these difficult years have led me back to God. This does not work for everyone; for some difficulties result in them rejecting God, but I was more fortunate.

It is often said that God takes away the things we value in life one by one until there is nothing left but reliance on him. This has been my experience.

 

[Catherineanne]

God creates an innocent creature who does not know good from evil and when that creature disobeys is punished, even though they could not have known that was wrong. In addition God left them with a loaded gun knowing what would happen. Are Your your saying that this is ok?

No it is not ok. It is a story.

 

[Non sequitur]

God does not send anyone to hell. Those who go there do so because they choose to. There is no eternal torment, except that of being without God.

That's like saying the mafia doesn't kill people, people kill themselves.

Hell is choosing to live without God.

If there is a god, I wouldn't want to purposefully live without him.

You won't see me there, because I choose to live in obedience to God.

I meant, I'll see you in heaven.

 

[Catherineanne]

I agree. Big Bang is a myth.

Fortunately, this kind of thinking is not mandatory in Christianity.

I use the term 'thinking' loosely, of course.

There is nothing in the Big Bang theory to contradict Christianity, and much to confirm what Christians believe. For one thing, if you ask a scientist what happened five minutes before the Big Bang, s/he will say the question is meaningless. Time began at the Big Bang, and science cannot comment about anything outside time. Similarly, Christianity places God outside time, and in eternity.

Eternity does not mean lasting forever; that is a description inside time. Eternity means outside time, changeless and eternally the same.

God is therefore outside his creation, changeless and eternal. Which is why science is not interested in proving or disproving God, as some Christians mistakenly claim; it has nothing to say about anything outside creation.

 

[Catherineanne]

Did Paul say that? I like it. What chapter is it?

I think what Paul meant was that if the scientific evidence contradicts God's word we should always believe God's word because scientific evidence can be deceiving, especially when viewed through the eyes of fallible human scientists who are always changing their failed theories.

Since when was, 'I think what Paul meant was ... ' Scripture? Particularly when you have not found the verses quoted for yourself, in order to check the context.

You can't have it both ways. If you insist on direct Biblical evidence, you can't at the same time present your own personal opinion and expect anyone to take it seriously.

If God had wanted to talk about scientific evidence he would have done so. It is rather mischievous to suggest that he did not quite get the words right, and so has to rely on you coming along 2,000 years later to put us all straight. That would make God rather inadequate, don't you think?

 

[MoonLancer]

God does not send anyone to hell. Those who go there do so because they choose to. There is no eternal torment, except that of being without God.

Hell is choosing to live without God. You won't see me there, because I choose to live in obedience to God.

No one chooses to go to hell. God simply sends people to hell who are not Obedient. If God does not do everything in his power to help everyone to get into heaven then he is not all loving. If he exists he knows exactly what would convince me that it is so.

The cards are in his hands.

However YOU are obligated to believe that he does not send people to hell. This is simply a word game because a god who sends people to hell is not an easy God to defend.

If God ONLY has the POWER to save those who are obedient that's another story. But then he is not an all powerful god.

 

[Non sequitur]

No one chooses to go to hell. God simply sends people to hell who are not Obedient. If God does not do everything in his power to help everyone to get into heaven then he is not all loving. If he exists he knows exactly what would convince me that it is so.

The cards are in his hands.

Nicely put!