Biblical Content and/or Christian Interpretation II: Monitorial

[Johan Henze]

Some people just like to hear themselves talk, and they spout off all kinds of things about Masonry, without ever citing a source. They make some pretty bizarre claims, too.

A good example: I came across a site declaring that Alicia Keys is a "Freemason Puppet." As "evidence," they post a picture, with a caption reading:



To illustrate just how ridiculous their claims can be, here is the picture:

Oh NOOOOOO! Were these vicious, evil people having an influence on my daughter as well, when she did this at age 6?

Not really, she's just telling daddy, "I love you" in sign language, something she was taught by her piano teacher. Given the beautiful smile, and her obvious knowledge of sign language as well, I'm sure Ms. Keys was signalling the same message to her audience as well.

Always check people's information and their sources.

And if they never offer you any, consider it safe to assume they are either ashamed of their sources, or they are their own source.

>>One common trait you will find among folks like JW , Mormons and Masons etc!

>>They have invented their own dictionary!

>>They may use Christian words and definitions but when scrutinized they dont bear the same meanings!

>>So often they spend a lot of their time and energy on public relations in order to make it acceptable part of Christianity ! You need get out there Rev Wayne !

>>I ve been brought up in the deaf community, are hard of hearing and can easely see that difference in those two sign language signed as not meaning the same thing . Even armies have their own sign language !

 

[Rev Wayne]

>>One common trait you will find among folks like JW , Mormons and Masons etc!

>>They have invented their own dictionary!

>>They may use Christian words and definitions but when scrutinized they dont bear the same meanings!

None of which has anything to do with Masonry.

>>I ve been brought up in the deaf community, are hard of hearing and can easely see that difference in those two sign language signed as not meaning the same thing .

Likewise, anyone who can see, can easily see that neither one of them says anything Masonic. Certainly you are free to comment, and you are welcome to your opinions, but you are taking remarks that were made by analogy only, and subsituting them for anything bearing on the subject, as "anyone can see."

The point was, anyone can come here and post bizarre claims without anything to back them up other than their own words.

 

[heterodoxical]

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]! Everyfan of university of texas is a satanist! You are so wize to show me this. I thought it was hook'em horns! George bush made that signal, and i thiught he was a good methodist boy that was a fan of UT.

your wisdom is blinding.

I did not curse. I did not curse, I did not curse, I resent the insinuation.

 

[O.F.F.]

Removed by author

 

[Rev Wayne]

Some comments caught my attention:

The Sanctum Sanctorum, or Holy of Holies, was NEVER entered into by those operative Masons who built the Temple of God.

I've cautioned you before on the dangers of mega cut & pasting before, with little effect.

I know of no website that allows anyone to "cut" information from their pages. I believe you would be referring to "copy & paste."

But I can sure show you who DOES engage in that activity to the hilt: ANTIMASONS! Remember the "arcannum arcandrum" fiasco, in which they misspelled the Latin for "Holy of Holies" and then copy & pasters ran rampant with it? Or at least we THOUGHT they did. These days, they have topped all predictions with proliferating that error.

Here is a sampling, and I probably could have pulled these all day long. Naturally, they couldn't all be posted as links, but just pick any string at random, add the "www." at the front, and enter in your browser's url window,

anti-state.com/forum/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=19752
scribd.com/doc/13344867/The-Occult-Masonic-Temple-God
wake-up.me.uk/facts-links.htm
crowhealingnetwork.net/pdf/The%20Occult%20Masonic%20Temple%20God%20(2003)%20by%20Dr.%20Christopher%20Newcomb,%20D.D..pdf
bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/freemasonryexposed.pdf
blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=47953495
scribd.com/doc/11537191/the-occult-masonic-temple-god-2003-by-dr
videos.es/reproductor/alanwattconversationwitha32nddegreefreemasonsdaughter-(Xzt_qcotEG4
breadoflifebiblestudy.com/Lessons/25TheNewWorldOrder/Articles/Freemasonry01.pdf
mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg89008.html
es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teor%C3%ADas_de_la_conspiraci%C3%B3n_mas%C3%B3nica
cuttingedge.org/SP/free001a.htm
cerritos.cyberbro.com/Heliotropos14.html
gueraenlosaires.blogspot.com/2009/03/organizaciones-fueron-fundadas-por.html
latin-foros.com/discusiones19001-0-asc-10.html
mx.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070627174221AASJ5HD
hechos4.tripod.com/pasionsexual17.html
yeshuanet.com/foro-cristiano/enfoque-cristiano-sobre-religiones-new-age-y-sectas/310-masones-y-masoneria.html
foroaforo.com/foros/religion/9291-simbolos-masonicos-de-poder-en-washington-dc-2.html
laneros.com/printthread.php?t=63232&pp=20&page=3
geocities.com/chavezmason/mason02.html
books.google.com/books?id=bq1PMQMsjqwC&pg=PA179&lpg=PA179&dq=arcannum+arcandrum&source=bl&ots=XCLAR3WGCo&sig=gaJZ1cCvKqitCsl0uqq8Ruc3wZo&hl=en&ei=QYdYSq-ULpS1tweylN3dCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8
kontranom.blogspot.com/2008/12/la-masoneria-en-el-nuevo-orden-mundial.html
eldib.wordpress.com/2007/10/07/
truthseeker2473.blogspot.com/2007_11_01_archive.html
abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread60478/pg1
theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/secretsocietyindex.htm
csw1.tblog.com/
members.fortunecity.com/rockangel1/theconspiracynetworksite/id2.html
youtube.com/giampow1
anti-state.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=22106
mymartyrdom.com/mason.htm
conspiracyresearch.org/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=361
mindofal.com/nwo/FreeMasonary.htm
community.armystudyguide.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/9651093521/m/4101035521/p/2
geocities.com/levelwater/mathlies13.html
overlordsofchaos.com/html/freemasonry_2.html
forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=4468.0
meta-religion.com/Secret_societies/Groups/Masonry/freemansonry_conspiracy_within.htm
jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Freemasonry/deception.htm
books.google.com/books?id=ml3yrwwhXKoC&pg=PA205&lpg=PA205&dq=arcannum+arcandrum&source=bl&ots=l-THoS1buJ&sig=xvwfCpEf-38N9nvkbaoZDZ69yh0&hl=en&ei=RnYgTrm8G8nVgQeRnuTjBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFEQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=arcannum%20arcandrum&f=false
19justinbrown88.yolasite.com/new-world-order-quotes.php
panoramio.com/photo/26975576
thechangeishere.blogspot.com/2010/01/freemasons.html
members.fortunecity.com/rockangel1/theconspiracynetworksite/id2.html
forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=40839
facebook.com/topic.php?uid=132106212752&topic=16116&perpage=30&post_index=61&start=-15&post_id=84148
forumgarden.com/forums/christianity/28820-zeus-theus.html
keith2007.magix.net/blog/science/archives/137-THE-UNCLEAN-FACE-OF-FREEMASONRY-IS-KEPT-TOTALLY-HIDDEN-FROM-LOW-RANKING-MASONS.html
unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=188722
nwomirror.tripod.com/masons2day.html
us3.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/P951BDQE272/productId/19960/UNA_MASCARA_OCULTA_TOTALMENTE_EL_VERDADERO_ROSTRO_SINIESTRO_DE_LA_MASONERIA_A_SUS_ADEPTOS_DE_BAJO_RANGO
wup-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11388
artisticwhispers.com/exc/Freemasonry.html
emancipationfromslavery.com/2011/05/14/alicia-keys-freemason-puppet/
newswithviews.com/Horn/thomas125.htm
islamickorner.net/showthread.php?1478-The-unclean-face-of-atheist-freemasonry&p=4821
politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=126523&p=13585641
.lastgeneration.us/ten_three_ten.html
arewelivingintheenddays.blogspot.com/
secondexodus.com/html/evangelization/evangelizingfreemasons.htm
groups.yahoo.com/group/Propaganda_Matrix/message/47679
waronyou.com/forums/index.php?topic=6723.0;wap2
chemtrailcentral.com/forum/msg85830.html
lastdaywatchers.com/2009/09/when-apolloosirisnimrod-son-of-lucifer-shall-come/
te-in.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=18396812812&topic=5392
clubconspiracy.com/forum/f32/albert-pike-680.html
scribd.com/doc/12474037/Nine-Unknown-Men-Secret-Society
letsrollforums.com/more-funny-business-national-t777.html?
forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=86662&page=3
m.1asphost.com/ABigSecret/books/Freemasonry%20-%20Conspiracy%20Within%20Initiation%20and%20the%20Brotherhood.PDF
bluesmobilemusic.com/The%20Hidden%20Gears%20of%20Freemasonry.pdf
docstoc.com/docs/3038569/Secret-Societies
flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?166136-Re-some-info-for-you
groups.yahoo.com/group/ESOTERICPHILIOSOPHY/message/1676
rs25.com/forums/f11/25394-lets-talk-politics-peacefully-4.html
spirittruth.com/index.php?p=1_5_ILLUMINATI-JESUITS-MASONS-USHERING-IN-ANTICHRIST--NEW-WORLD-ORDER-
ta-in.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=121540451233709&topic=38
datehookup.com/Thread-182327-61.htm
secure.gn.apc.org/members/www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2214
thechangeishere.blogspot.com/
mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=52700.60
911blogger.com/node/4436
atlanteanconspiracy.com/2010_01_01_archive.html
city-data.com/forum/religion-philosophy/307215-free-masons-7.html
scribd.com/doc/14000831/Pat-Robertson
nyapolitiken.biz/frimurare_o_illuminater/frimureriet_tva_organisationer.html
concen.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=13009&page=4
realraptalk.com/f211/masonic-beliefs-practices-1607160/index3.html
universality.info/mambo/r/images/fm2.html
worldlawdirect.com/forum/criminal-law-matters/27316-sperm-stealing-using-ivf-5.html
opennewspress.com/2010/12/15/secret-history-of-the-freemasons-part-1-of-9/1043
100georgia.multiply.com/journal/item/380
latrompette.net/post/A86.la_franc_maconnerie.htm
africanias.com/modules.php?name=Suscritos&op=printpage&artid=379
cadillacforums.com/forums/community-lounge-introductions-general-discussion/67356-any-masons-here.html
mix-tonstudio.de/moniversal/moxnews05.htm
theseason.yuku.com/topic/882
issuu.com/forgenerations/docs/masonictemplegod
simceros.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=130:arcanum-arcandrum-um-segredo-sagrado&catid=39:carlos-martins&Itemid=56
tagryggen.dk/show_article.php?num=78
mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg89008.html
cenobite.com/forumarchive/printthread.php3?threadid=2436&perpage=50&pagenumber=7
dc309.4shared.com/doc/6jB5Np9Y/preview.html
forums.steroid.com/archive/index.php/t-248093.html
freemasonsandtheirerrors.blog.com/tag/ahteist-zionists/
forums.modojo.com/showthread.php?t=3814
godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1022621/pg1
islambosna.ba/forum/profile/?u=18;sa=showPosts;start=1020
conflict.feedfury.com/content/13783267-a-cool-club-or-cool-deception.html
apwin.org/wp-content/uploads/books/THE%20TRUTH%20SEEKER%20FILES/Free_Masonry_Exposed.pdf
alipac.us/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=173504
tranceaddict.com/forums/showthread/t-284360-p-5.html
portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/12/306295.shtml
freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1332781/posts
diostube.com/forum/index.php?topic=27.0
ministeriolazosdeamor.es.tl/la-verdad-sobre-Masones.htm
jan-gaspard.de/threads/204-Was-ist-%C3%BCberhaupr-die-Freimaurerei/page4
scribd.com/doc/3289775/Famous-Freemasons-Exposed
unsolvedmysteries.com/usm218875.html
abcpreachers.ning.com/profiles/blogs/should-pastors-be-masons
pim-fortuyn.nl/pfforum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=31556
ufos-co.de/news_artikel/htdocs/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1525
allmystery.de/themen/gg23050-3
christianconspiracy.org/Freemasonry-two-organisations-one-visible-one-hidden.html
angelfire.com/folk/anticristos/levelwater15.html
my.opera.com/SavedNotFried/archive/monthly/?day=20100609
cuttingedge.org/deutch/freemasonry.index.html
aporrealos.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10085&sid=a9d8a7954bd1d3df86bfdb562f11732e
elresurgirdelaguaclara.blogspot.com/2009/11/horizontes-cercanos.html
worldlawdirect.com/forum/criminal-law-matters/44476-mental-illnesses-why-wont-world-do-something-about-2.html
indigosociety.com/showthread.php?26499-How-Freemasons-avoid-honesty/page4
theabsolute.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1331&start=150
mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg98127.html
csw1.tblog.com/post/1969855890
lacomunidad.elpais.com/viento-del-norte/2011/2/16/teorias-la-conspiracion-masonica
armleg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=120&sid=53c830e16f99f5b8ca27cf74cb376eea&mforum=libertyandtruth
pastebin.com/LvPAhVcF
forum-anti-christi.forumers.ro/t93p80-protocoalele-francmasoneriei
rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3022&start=15
puppstheories.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3636
nightly.net/topic/23791-bush-caught-in-another-lie/
frantikmag.com/blog/2010/10/26/method-of-defiance-to-play-rare-nyc-show-at-santos-party-house-nov-6th/
abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread497024/pg11
mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&forum=2&thread=1806412&page=5
scam.com/showthread.php?t=17919&page=2
freemediaproductions.info/Lyceum/showthread.php?t=6654&page=3



It's even been made into a song, false spelling and all, by the group Cheap Tragedies, on their album "Souvenirs and Evidence":

amazon.de/Arcanum-Arcandrum/dp/B001SRQIK0

To reiterate: Hall was not even a Mason until 25 years after he wrote the piece;
and accusers have misinterpreted his comments, attributing to him something he was not saying at all. It's just one more example of antimason hype gone postal, and without foundation.

 

[Skip Sampson]

It wasn't an "assumption." You're acting like that's the key to understanding it, when it's actually the fingers that are the sign?

Look up the sign and you'll see the thumb is involved. Some advice: research first, then write.

Besides, the same kind of idiots that come up with that accusation, obviously are blissfully unaware of the "difference" you've tried to claim, as evidenced by this picture accusing McDonald's CEO's of the same thing, in a picture where one has the thumb out and one doesn't:

Interesting to see you using corporate CEO's as experts on ASL. Totally consistent and reflects your general view on research, to wit: "use only sources that agree with me."

No, this is just more Skip Sampson smoke, creating accusations when he's out of them.

No accusation involved, just good advice. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Look up the sign and you'll see the thumb is involved. Some advice: research first, then write.

Some advice: read ALL the posts that have been entered since your last visit, THEN respond.

Interesting to see you using corporate CEO's as experts on ASL.

Interesting that you totally misunderstood what was posted. "I" was not saying ANYTHING about anybody's expertise on sign language. You had suggested a difference between the two; I was merely pointing out that whoever posted that picture on their website, certainly was not aware that there might be a difference between the two versions of the signal, that was my point.

No accusation involved, just good advice.

Yeah, sure, and wrong on both counts, of course.

I'm not sure whether you just followed your typical pattern and responded before realizing I had a subsequent post covering this; or whether your compulsive desire to accuse was just too much for you to resist and caused you to respond as if I had not addressed it in the followup. I can't see how either one transforms your post from the flip sarcasm it truly exhibits, into "good advice."

And despite your bit of foppery, the fact still remains, Alicia Keys was not flashing any "Baphomet sign," nor is there any connection of Baphomet to Masonry.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Interesting that you totally misunderstood what was posted.

Untrue. Here's your comment:

Not really, she's just telling daddy, "I love you" in sign language, something she was taught by her piano teacher. Given the beautiful smile, and her obvious knowledge of sign language as well, I'm sure Ms. Keys was signalling the same message to her audience as well.

Whatever Ms Keys was signalling, it wasn't the same as the girl was. Again, check ASL and you'll see the truth in that.

the fact still remains, Alicia Keys was not flashing any "Baphomet sign," nor is there any connection of Baphomet to Masonry.

I wouldn't know what the Baphomet sign would be. I'll leave that determination to you. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

I know of no website that allows anyone to "cut" information from their pages. I believe you would be referring to "copy & paste."

Glad you understood the reference. I prefer 'cut & paste' as it captures the image perfectly. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Rev Wayne]

Tell you what, Skip, since you don't seem to have caught up with the posts here even yet, why don't you just refer to the followup post that already posted before you posted what were, by the time you got around to it, irrelevant comments in the first place? Post #399, the previous page.

I wouldn't know what the Baphomet sign would be.

Neither would I. All I know is, what people are CLAIMING it to be. And I also know I see as little corroboration for it as I do for the false information in your preferred LSME sources on Lion of the Tribe of Judah.

I'll leave that determination to you.

Why, because I've got your goat so many times here already?

I prefer 'cut & paste'

Given your penchant for erroneous designations, I'm sure you wouldn't have it any other way but the incorrect one.

 

[heterodoxical]

I'm telling you, itsa a college football sign. Hook 'em horns!

 

[Skip Sampson]

I'm telling you, itsa a college football sign. Hook 'em horns!

That was my first impression as well. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Rev Wayne]

That was my first impression as well.

Yeah, we've seen your first impressions quite a few times. Jacob's Staircase must have been a first impression, it sure wasn't one that was given any serious thought.

 

[Johan Henze]

Yeah, we've seen your first impressions quite a few times. Jacob's Staircase must have been a first impression, it sure wasn't one that was given any serious thought.

>>Any deaf or hard of hearing person like me who grew up in the deaf community will be able tell you the sign by Alicea Keys is of Satanic nature while the latter is I love you!

 

[Rev Wayne]

>>Any deaf or hard of hearing person like me who grew up in the deaf community will be able tell you the sign by Alicea Keys is of Satanic nature while the latter is I love you!

Wow! Even these antimasons around this site, who sometimes engage in accusing people of things satanic, admitted that they would not know what the "sign of Baphomet" is.

And yet you're telling me that someone deaf or hard of hearing receives some sort of specialized training or something, whereby they can automatically tell you that the hand signal given by Alicia Keys is "of Satanic nature?"

Exactly where do they come by this kind of knowledge? And exactly how is this kind of training administered to so many people? Or isd it just some kind of secret knowledge that only people in the deaf community are privy to?

I mean, I found it pretty believable when you suggested that the deaf/hard of hearing community would know something about the "I love you" hand sign; but this claim that anyone in that community can tell you that the sign she made is "satanic" is probably not sustainable, don't you think?

I think, basically, you did the same sort of thing I did in the first statement I made in bringing this up in the first place: the analogy was legitimate, it's just that in making the conclusion from the analogy presented, I swung the pendulum the wrong way, to what we could "know" that Ms. Keys was doing. In actuality, what we could "know" was not what she was doing, but what she was NOT doing. And it's a pretty safe bet she wasn't flashing any secret satanic sign, for there is no basis for any such claim that it is a "satanic" sign, other than, a lot of people with conspiracist mindsets seem to believe it to be so (but I've not seen the concrete support for it anywhere). With the objection that was raised to my comment, it could only be acknowledged, amended, and move on.

It's essentially the same with your comment. You made your statement about what the deaf/hard of hearing community could "know" Ms. Keys was doing when she made that sign. In actuality, the most that community can "know" with any certainty in the matter, is what she was not doing, which was, she was not making the sign language signal for "I love you."

Beyond that, there is no basis for a suggestion that those of your community would have some special way to "know" what she did intend by it.

 

[Johan Henze]

Wow! Even these antimasons around this site, who sometimes engage in accusing people of things satanic, admitted that they would not know what the "sign of Baphomet" is.

And yet you're telling me that someone deaf or hard of hearing receives some sort of specialized training or something, whereby they can automatically tell you that the hand signal given by Alicia Keys is "of Satanic nature?"

Exactly where do they come by this kind of knowledge? And exactly how is this kind of training administered to so many people? Or isd it just some kind of secret knowledge that only people in the deaf community are privy to?

I mean, I found it pretty believable when you suggested that the deaf/hard of hearing community would know something about the "I love you" hand sign; but this claim that anyone in that community can tell you that the sign she made is "satanic" is probably not sustainable, don't you think?

>>Why not take up the challenge and ask any deaf person on this planet by comparing these two pictures and see what answer you will get!

>>I can garauntee you it will not be anything other than being Satanic. Have you ever asked a fan of the heavy metal band KISS(Kids In Satan,s Service) what that sign means?They use it all the time at their shows and any other heavy metal band performance!

 

[Rev Wayne]

Why not take up the challenge and ask any deaf person on this planet by comparing these two pictures and see what answer you will get!

It's not my challenge. I didn't MAKE the claim, YOU did. Where is your support for it?

I can garauntee you it will not be anything other than being Satanic.

"Guarantee?" On what basis? Have you looked into this at all, or are you just winging it as you go along?

I have looked into it, and it's a sign that finds general usage among rockers. Most people take it no differently than "rock on," or something similar, much in the same vein as the old "thumbs-up" once found popular usage.

As for the acronym "K.I.S.S.," Gene Simmons says it was their approach to what they did with their music: "Keep it Simple, Stupid." What you suggested was just a rumor.

 

[Johan Henze]

It's not my challenge. I didn't MAKE the claim, YOU did. Where is your support for it?


"Guarantee?" On what basis? Have you looked into this at all, or are you just winging it as you go along?

I have looked into it, and it's a sign that finds general usage among rockers. Most people take it no differently than "rock on," or something similar, much in the same vein as the old "thumbs-up" once found popular usage.

As for the acronym "K.I.S.S.," Gene Simmons says it was their approach to what they did with their music: "Keep it Simple, Stupid." What you suggested was just a rumor.

>>The gesture goes by a number of names in heavy metal!

>>Devil sign , Metal sign, devil horns and throwing horns!

>>Stop living in denial and leave your lodge and be a servant to the Lord and the bride of Christ!

 

[Skip Sampson]

Yeah, we've seen your first impressions quite a few times. Jacob's Staircase must have been a first impression, it sure wasn't one that was given any serious thought.

Petty, Wayne, very petty. Is that all you have left? Cordially, Skip.

 

[heterodoxical]

>>Why not take up the challenge and ask any deaf person on this planet by comparing these two pictures and see what answer you will get!

>>I can garauntee you it will not be anything other than being Satanic. Have you ever asked a fan of the heavy metal band KISS(Kids In Satan,s Service) what that sign means?They use it all the time at their shows and any other heavy metal band performance!

What's your guarantee? I will take your money. Ask anyone in college sports whether fan, player or coach.

Its the university of Texas mascot sign, a long horn, "hook em horns! !..!