legalism

[from scratch]

Maybe somoene else, will help froggy, and tell me what WITH means?

Cake with icing usually means that icing is on the cake and not seperate. We do get cake and ice cream though - but not cake with ice cream. Cake that has icing is a combined unit.

 

[Frogster]

Cake with icing usually means that icing is on the cake and not seperate. We do get cake and ice cream though - but not cake with ice cream. Cake that has icing is a combined unit.

Well said. Thanks, at least we finally go a definition.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Well said. Thanks, at least we finally go a definition.

ok, you and your buddy from scratch chopped my response up as usual but you still didn't answer the pertinent questions i posed.

what law will be written in the heart in the new covnenant? Jer 31:33

the "oldness of the letter" of what? rom 7:6

it's ok, i know you guys won't answer, but i thought i'd ask one more time!

about the "with" thing, go back and read my post #63.

 

[from scratch]

What do you think is meant by when we walk in the spirit we will not gratify the lusts of the flesh. What when paul mentions that the law is spiritual? You may not like it or call foul but I believe Jesus upheld the law by the spirit. Do you believe that while the law was in effect the Israelites were supposed to seek their own righteousness or do you believe that they midi retread God's intent in introducing the law?

Gal 5:19-21 shows the lsuts of the flesh. We ususally call these items listed as sin. Christians don't have them as a life styleas part of their lifein the flesh. I have no idea how God (Jesus) does anything by the Spirit or is enabled by the Spirit. That would be saying that God needs help. And that would be extremely absurd to be exteremely polite. The law wasn't for the purpose of etablishing anyones righteousness. The major purpose of the law is found in Rom 11:32 - For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Yeppers that looks like a proof text. Please read the whole chapter.

Lastly you mentioned that that our flesh will not be saved only our souls- on this I disagree with the most, what do you make the resurrection will it redeem only our spirit or won't our body be clothed with immortality? That is the blessed hope.

Is it the flesh that is raised form the dead? In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Will those raised from the dead be different? Why?

I don't know if I answered you properly.

I think you have made reasonable statements, misunderstandings and questions.

 

[from scratch]

We can't get anywhere trying to follow God's law in the flesh so what god did, finding fault with the nature of the first covenant, mediated a second covenant through Christ and gave his spirit to enable us to daily die to our flesh nature. Through the spirit we will "naturally" want to uphold the law- I didn't mention we would be perfect, but we will have law written on our hearts- this is the function of the spirit, it conforms us to the image of god.

Now what is the law he Promised to write on our hearts?

So why is it demanded that the flesh follow the law which it can't do? The law doesn't say get your soul to the synagogue or something of the sort does it? The law applies to the flesh as well as the soul but the law requires (forces) the performance of the flesh. The Spirit doesn't - it bears fruit. This looks like performance to the average joe. An apple tree will be an apple tree with or without fruit. An apple tree that bears no fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. This in no way forces the apple tree to do anything.

I can't tell you what the law written on our hearts is. I can tell you what it isn't though. And that is the law written on our hearts isn't the law issued at Sinai. I think that Jesus said this in the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus said - you have heard it said... but I say. This is clearly something different. See Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8:6-13.

 

[from scratch]

Don't you guys think legalism is complication the gospel of Christ?
All Christ said was 'repent and believe in the good news for the remission of sin'

Certianly some of us do!

 

[from scratch]

i've been asking from scratch and frogster this question like "forever", and they refuse to answer the question!

It isn't that I've refused to answer such a question that I don't recall being asked. It is that I can only tell you what it isn't according to the Scripture. That doesn't mean that following the leading of the Spirit will lead one to sin or the law. It simply about rule keeping. And that answer is the same one I just gave - the law written on our hearts isn't the law issued at Sinai per Jer 31:31-34. That doesn't mean that we can sin. Sin was in the world beroe the law per Rom 5:13 and Gal 3:19.

 

[from scratch]

no it's not. it's a new covenant.

since you guys noticed all of the "withs" in my previous post, why don't you tell me what law will be written in our hearts per jer 31:33.

Certianly - it is the leading of the Spirit - Gal 5:18.And if that does settle it there is Rom 8:1-4 Emphasis should be given to v 2 - the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

 

[from scratch]

He said more than that.

legalism is a term that some have come up with to do away with keeping God's law (rom 8:7). it's as simple as that.

Nope. Legalism isn't license or permission to sin. It is also not permission to disobey a superceded covenant which has no jurisdiction over the Christian.

 

[Frogster]

ok, you and your buddy from scratch chopped my response up as usual but you still didn't answer the pertinent questions i posed.

what law will be written in the heart in the new covnenant? Jer 31:33

the "oldness of the letter" of what? rom 7:6

it's ok, i know you guys won't answer, but i thought i'd ask one more time!

about the "with" thing, go back and read my post #63.

I read #63, it does not rebutt about "with"..

What went with, the debt? With it, to the cross?


14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

 

[from scratch]

who said the ceremonial laws were against us?

Every law pusher that I've ever encountered says the ceremonial law is what was nailed to the cross. It has been demonstrated in this thread that the whole law was nailed to the cross by the using and discussing the word with.

why don't you tell me what was nailed to the cross?

How many times do you need to read it to understand? Quit dismissing and believe.

 

[from scratch]

ok, you and your buddy from scratch chopped my response up as usual but you still didn't answer the pertinent questions i posed.

what law will be written in the heart in the new covnenant? Jer 31:33

the "oldness of the letter" of what? rom 7:6

it's ok, i know you guys won't answer, but i thought i'd ask one more time!

about the "with" thing, go back and read my post #63.

Some people wouldn't stop at the stop sign unless they were told to do so. Other people don't have to be told -already have learned and know why. Yes I understand there will be argument about that.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Some people wouldn't stop at the stop sing unless they were told to do so. Other people don'thave to be told -already have learned and know why. Yes I understand there will be argument about that.

, what the...???

what's that got to do with jer 31:33 or rom 7:6 ???

why don't you just answer the questions i asked???

does not make sense! i answer you guys all the time.

 

[JohnRabbit]

[/COLOR]Every law pusher that I've ever encountered says the ceremonial law is what was nailed to the cross. It has been demonstrated in this thread that the whole law was nailed to the cross by the using and discussing the word with.How many times do you need to read it to understand? Quit dismissing and believe.

so, when paul says the law is spiritual (rom 7:14), what does that mean?

also, explain to me this:

Hebrews 9:10(NKJV)
10concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.

what law is this?

is there a difference between what is spoken of in rom 7 and hebrews 9?

 

[JohnRabbit]

I read it, nothing there about the WITH issue.

You posted all those verses to act like it was just the debt, that got nailed, and not the law..

Sooooo.

Did the legal demand, the rules, go with it, the debt, to the cross?


Col 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross

you read it?

then why aren't you explaining some of the things i mentioned?

why aren't you answering the questions i posed?

 

[JohnRabbit]

[/COLOR]Every law pusher that I've ever encountered says the ceremonial law is what was nailed to the cross. It has been demonstrated in this thread that the whole law was nailed to the cross by the using and discussing the word with.How many times do you need to read it to understand? Quit dismissing and believe.

again, why can't you just answer a question!?!

and why aren't you explaining what i asked in post #63?

you guys just gloss over all of that!

 

[from scratch]

, what the...???

what's that got to do with jer 31:33 or rom 7:6 ???

why don't you just answer the questions i asked???

does not make sense! i answer you guys all the time.

communcation is very difficult some times. And this is one of those. I have considered saying something else but again communication is a problem and I just don't wish to be reported. So very sorry you don't understand.

 

[from scratch]

so, when paul says the law is spiritual (rom 7:14), what does that mean?

Maybe you won't understand. To give a full truthful answer this is to violate the rules. So sorry.

also, explain to me this:

Hebrews 9:10(NKJV)
10concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.

what law is this?

This is part of the types and shadows talked about in the Scriptures. The reformation is the cross.

is there a difference between what is spoken of in rom 7 and hebrews 9?

There is no connection that I can make.

 

[cyberlizard]

Maybe you won't understand. To give a full truthful answer this is to violate the rules. So sorry.This is part of the types and shadows talked about in the Scriptures. The reformation is the cross.There is no connection that I can make.

sounds like a cop out.


Steve

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

[/color]Maybe you won't understand. To give a full truthful answer this is to violate the rules. So sorry.This is part of the types and shadows talked about in the Scriptures. The reformation is the cross.There is no connection that I can make.

This is interesting. The #7 always intrigues me which is the amount of times that word is used in the NT/NC

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number G4639 matches the Greek σκιά (skia), which occurs 7 times in 7 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV
AV — shadow 7

Matt 4:16 The people, the one-sitting in darkness saw a great Light
And/also to-the ones-sitting in part and shadow/skia <4639> of death, a Light springs-up to-them.
[Isaiah 60:2,3/Luke 1:79]

Luke 1:79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death,
To guide our feet into the way of peace."

Some of you may find this site interesting. I found it some years back and have yet to read thru it all. A lot of it is based on the Book of Hebrews

http://www.nsbible.org/sits_ts/v0s1.htm

The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.