legalism

[Frogster]

I wonder why most lay the law down when Jer 31 comes up?

Jer 31:33 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds i and write it on their hearts. j I will be their God, and they will be my people."

Oh, the bible says so.

But can the principle of law bondage, still occur, even though it is in our hearts?

Why didn't paul want the law near his churches, using abraham, who had not Moses, if the law was in us?

Wouldn't he say.."ok guys, it is in you, so now walk under law"?

 

[Frogster]

I asked,

What is the spiritual law?
And when did it come?

Your answer "In that passage, to Paul, as a saved person." This does not answer neither question. Please re-submit.

Y

I gave you a contextual answer to my posted verse.. Now answer mine.

Why was sin dead, apart from law in 7:8, for a Christian?

My turn.

 

[Frogster]

Why certainly he did!!!

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, v obeyed and went, w even though he did not know where he was going.
Heb 11:9 By faith he made his home in the promised land x like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, y as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. z


Jas 2:21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? x

Jas 2:22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, y and his faith was made complete by what he did. z


Jas 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Ge 26:5 because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws.”

You see, Abraham had faith and works, what did he do, he obeyed God!

His sacrifice of son Isaac was a result of his faith and works! He was obeying God at this time.

Oh paaaalease! if Abe had Moses, paul could not use him to ward off the Moses pushers.

Gee, he had something that came, 430 years later?

17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.


If he had the law, it would void the promise, see also rom 4:14, same basic verse as Gal 3;18.


18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

Sir, with all due repsect, i do believe u stand corrected.

 

[YosemiteSam]

LOL..with it's legal decress! WITH..!Again! With..with..it's requirements. With..Again, with..legal reqirements went woith it! lol..with.WITH...binding rules..WITH ..THE RULES WENT TOO!WHAT DOES WITH MEAN?WITH, the law's OBLIGATIONS...WITH....THE decrees went also!With , with..If I go with you to the store WITH YOU, we both went to the store, with the rules! Expressed, in....they both went to the cross.with the regulations, with!

You quoted writing alot, in your other post, then i show u Tyndale, and how the bible calls it writing, for the 10, and you do this now?

You clearly do not understand the verse in which johnrabbit posted so many times...

Look more closely...
Colossians 2:14 Contemporary English Version (CEV)
God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses. He took them away and nailed them to the cross.

What was nailed to the cross... the charges! If one is charged then there would be a requirement of him.. Correct? "For the wages of sin is death." One can now repent of their sins because of Christ paying for the penalty in our stead. Christ was our blood sacrifice, the lamb.

Rom 1:32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death...

Rom 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins...

So the above does not point to the 10 commandments as the law which was nailed to the cross...but rather the decree in which God has given to those which have sinned, if they repent and turn from thier wicked ways.

One can now repent of sin, turn around and go the other way, all this of course with God's help!

End here,,,though much more could be listed on this topic.



Y

 

[YosemiteSam]

Oh paaaalease! if Abe had Moses, paul could not use him to ward off the Moses pushers.

Gee, he had something that came, 430 years later?

17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.


If he had the law, it would void the promise, see also rom 4:14, same basic verse as Gal 3;18.


18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

Sir, with all due repsect, i do believe u stand corrected.

Even Abraham had the gospel!

 

[Frogster]

LOL..with it's legal decress! WITH..!Again! With..with..it's requirements. With..Again, with..legal reqirements went woith it! lol..with.WITH...binding rules..WITH ..THE RULES WENT TOO!WHAT DOES WITH MEAN?WITH, the law's OBLIGATIONS...WITH....THE decrees went also!With , with..If I go with you to the store WITH YOU, we both went to the store, with the rules! Expressed, in....they both went to the cross.with the regulations, with!

You quoted writing alot, in your other post, then i show u Tyndale, and how the bible calls it writing, for the 10, and you do this now?

You clearly do not understand the verse in which johnrabbit posted so many times...

Look more closely...
Colossians 2:14 Contemporary English Version (CEV)
God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses. He took them away and nailed them to the cross.

What was nailed to the cross... the charges! If one is charged then there would be a requirement of him.. Correct? "For the wages of sin is death." One can now repent of their sins because of Christ paying for the penalty in our stead. Christ was our blood sacrifice, the lamb.

Rom 1:32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death...

Rom 4:25 He was delivered over to death for our sins...

So the above does not point to the 10 commandments as the law which was nailed to the cross...but rather the decree in which God has given to those which have sinned, if they repent and turn from thier wicked ways.

One can now repent of sin, turn around and go the other way, all this of course with God's help!

End here,,,though much more could be listed on this topic.



Y

But you forgot to put the ones that said..WITH..that Rabbit posted.

Here is another, that was not on the rabbit post. the NRSV

14erasing the record that stood against us with its legal demands. He set this aside, nailing it to the cross.

 

[Frogster]

Even Abraham had the gospel!

sorry..but the law came 430 later.

Look how Paul says blessed in the gospel, cursed under law, using Abe. Why?


Gal 3:9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”

 

[listed]

He did answer what law will be written on our hearts...He said, "I don't know.."

I think if you look closer he also said he could tell you what it wasn't. And probalby referenced Jer 31:31-34. So I would love to know what it is if it isn't the law issued at Mt Sinai. I'm open to suggestions.

 

[listed]

I wonder why most lay the law down when Jer 31 comes up?

Jer 31:33 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds i and write it on their hearts. j I will be their God, and they will be my people."

Oh, the bible says so.

I wonder how one can promote the law after reading the full sentence you quote the last third of in the face of the NT.

 

[from scratch]

sin was napping? are you serious? what am i talking about, of course you're serious. after you read this post, maybe you can understand why what you have written in your post makes no sense to me.

now you take what you have written in your post and compare it to this:

Deuteronomy 8:6(NKJV)
6“Therefore you shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God, to walk in His ways and to fear Him.

Exodus 18:20(NKJV)
20And you shall teach them the statutes and the laws, and show them the way in which they must walk and the work they must do.

you see? God's laws express His Way!

now look at this what God spoke concerning the levi priests:

Malachi 2:7-9(NKJV)
7 “For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge, And people should seek the law from his mouth; For he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.
8 But you have departed from the way (what way?); You have caused many to stumble at the law. You have corrupted the covenant of Levi,” Says the Lord of hosts.
9 “Therefore I also have made you contemptible and base Before all the people, Because you have not kept My ways But have shown partiality in the law.”

i believe that the law expresses God's Way!

you and your ilk see the law as a bunch of "rules", better yet, a bunch of "do's and don'ts for an ancient people"!

with this difference, i know why you guys can't answer my questions.

either the law is the "great sin arouser" or it's "God's Way".

i think the bible shows that the law expresses His ways.

that's why i believe the bible when i read verses like these:

James 1:22-25(NKJV) (rom 2:13, this shows that paul and james were on the same page)
22But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
23For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;
24for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
25But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

James 2:8-11(NKJV)
8If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
9but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
10For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
11For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

1 John 2:3-4(NKJV)
3Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 Corinthians 7:19(NKJV)
19Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

The ilk doesn't see the law as a bunch of rules. The ilk sees the law as the OC issued at Sinai and isn't any longer inforce curtesy of Jesus, Who said the NC is current in His blood - Mat 26:28,MK 14:24 and LK 22:20. The law is a single undivisible unit per James in 2:10-11 as well as Paul in Gal 3:10, 5:4 where he says it is either or, one can't have both salvation and the law.

 

[YosemiteSam]

But you forgot to put the ones that said..WITH..that Rabbit posted.

Here is another, that was not on the rabbit post. the NRSV

14erasing the record that stood against us with its legal demands. He set this aside, nailing it to the cross.

It does not say the law was nailed to the cross... I think Johnrabbit spelled that out clearly and I did in my post...

 

[YosemiteSam]

I gave you a contextual answer to my posted verse.. Now answer mine.

Why was sin dead, apart from law in 7:8, for a Christian?

My turn.

I don't need any drawn up fantasies...I need to know
When did the spiritual law come?
What is the spiritual law?

Y

 

[from scratch]

Reported for answering a question? HUH? Another stumbling block?

Dats rat! I sees we is back on de merry go round or ya been watchin Wheel or Fortune. Let er spin. I'm guessin ya shootin fer more buttons.

 

[YosemiteSam]

But you forgot to put the ones that said..WITH..that Rabbit posted.

Here is another, that was not on the rabbit post. the NRSV

14erasing the record that stood against us with its legal demands. He set this aside, nailing it to the cross.

Okay, we will use what you have posted here...

"erasing the record that stood against us (this is the charge) with its legal demands." What is the legal demand?

You should know this... Rom 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death.." Death is the "legal demand". Death is the payment for sin!!!

That is what was nailed to the cross! Not the law (which Paul calls Holy, Just and Good) The law is not against anyone. The law simply serves as a guideline and tells us what sin is. The law cannot be against anyone. One does not write a law that is against a person. If so, then it could not be Just or Good!

It is the person who goes against a law. If you break the 55 mph speed limit, it would be you who went against the law, NOT THE LAW GOING AGAINST YOU! There would be no logic in this approach. The law just states a fact. It would be you who would face the charge and you who would pay the fine. Take for instance:

"Thou shall not commit adultery" The law just sets limits or guideline. Would you think this a good law? How many marriages would be safe if people followed it? How many children would be born into good homes with both a father and a mother, if followed?

If one goes against the law and is charged then he or she must pay the penalty. What is against the transgressor? The record that stands against the individual (the charge) and the legal demand (the penalty).

So see, the verse does not read that the ten commandments were nailed to the cross. It reads that the charge and the penalty (legal demand) were nailed to the cross. This is for those who repent and turn from sin!

 

[YosemiteSam]

I think if you look closer he also said he could tell you what it wasn't. And probalby referenced Jer 31:31-34. So I would love to know what it is if it isn't the law issued at Mt Sinai. I'm open to suggestions.

Well if you believe that God changes, I guess he could make up a whole new set of laws...Paul calls the law Holy, Just and Good. If the law is Holy, Just and Good, then why a need for a new law. The bible just states that he will make a new covenant or agreement with his people...Nothing about a new law.

 

[CalmRon]

Well if you believe that God changes, I guess he could make up a whole new set of laws...Paul calls the law Holy, Just and Good. If the law is Holy, Just and Good, then why a need for a new law. The bible just states that he will make a new covenant or agreement with his people...Nothing about a new law.

He found fault with the people not his law but he promised he would have the people he desired who would obey because obedience would be in their nature.

 

[JohnRabbit]

The ilk doesn't see the law as a bunch of rules. The ilk sees the law as the OC issued at Sinai and isn't any longer inforce curtesy of Jesus, Who said the NC is current in His blood - Mat 26:28,MK 14:24 and LK 22:20. The law is a single undivisible unit per James in 2:10-11 as well as Paul in Gal 3:10, 5:4 where he says it is either or, one can't have both salvation and the law.

ok, while indivisibility is on the table ...

care to explain these verses to me so i can understand like you?

(rom 7:14) (heb 9:10)

i would love to see what you have to say?

 

[from scratch]

Okay, we will use what you have posted here...

"erasing the record that stood against us (this is the charge) with its legal demands." What is the legal demand?

Any time the just charges are dropped a law has been voided - made to be ineffective. If there are no legal demands there is no inforcable law. The legal demand of the speed limit law is thou shalt not do 56 when the sign says the upper limit is 55. In this the law is against you doing 56. The law then prescribes a penalty. The penalty is the punishment for disobedience. Punishment isn't against us. Avaoiding the consequences of ones actions is wrong and eventually one will face those consequences of irresponsibility.

Now you say the punishment is the only thing nailed to the cross in one breath and in the next you say celebrating because we have been delivered from that punishment in the paying of a fine (sacrifice) is against us. Amazing simply amazing!!!

You should know this... Rom 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death.." Death is the "legal demand". Death is the payment for sin!!!

And all followers of the law recieve this. Ah but you say all we have to do is repent and everything is OK. Isn't this the same thing graces pushers are accused of - cheap grace? The law doesn't have much value if it can be so easily be made in effective or bypassed. Why is it most violators want mercy and not law upon violation of a law?

That is what was nailed to the cross! Not the law (which Paul calls Holy, Just and Good) The law is not against anyone. The law simply serves as a guideline and tells us what sin is. The law cannot be against anyone. One does not write a law that is against a person. If so, then it could not be Just or Good!

It is the person who goes against a law. If you break the 55 mph speed limit, it would be you who went against the law, NOT THE LAW GOING AGAINST YOU! There would be no logic in this approach. The law just states a fact. It would be you who would face the charge and you who would pay the fine. Take for instance:

"Thou shall not commit adultery" The law just sets limits or guideline. Would you think this a good law? How many marriages would be safe if people followed it? How many children would be born into good homes with both a father and a mother, if followed? [/aquote]Safe??? That wouldn't cause sin to cease in the least. If anything it would protect sin.

If one goes against the law and is charged then he or she must pay the penalty. What is against the transgressor? The record that stands against the individual (the charge) and the legal demand (the penalty).

So see, the verse does not read that the ten commandments were nailed to the cross. It reads that the charge and the penalty (legal demand) were nailed to the cross. This is for those who repent and turn from sin!

Please read a couple times my discussion on this above.

 

[RABBIT-HUNTER]

ok, while indivisibility is on the table ...

care to explain these verses to me so i can understand like you?

(rom 7:14) (heb 9:10)

i would love to see what you have to say?

I don't understand why you don't see, that the spiritual law, that you ask about in 7:14, was that which made sin work in Paul, sin and law work in conjunction.

 

[listed]

Well if you believe that God changes, I guess he could make up a whole new set of laws...Paul calls the law Holy, Just and Good. If the law is Holy, Just and Good, then why a need for a new law. The bible just states that he will make a new covenant or agreement with his people...Nothing about a new law.

God does change things. Mal 3:6 and Heb 13:8 refer to God's character and not His program. Examine the record very closely and one must come to this conclusion.