FFOZ's new Galatians commentary

[MessianicMommy]

I have the book but have not made it very far in. I ended up deciding this week I will be making the curriculum for our children's torah study since I haven't the funds to order any good quality stuff. So I have been studying the portion and taking notes all week, so I can write their stuff out in story format with photos added.

I got about 3 chapters in when I had to put it down after getting it. I'm impressed with the quality of the book (and the fact it's hardcover), not to mention that I got a free copy. I'm interested to see how it reads. So far it's very interesting.

 

[HIM_In_Me_In_HIM]

.....can be taken many diff ways in many diff discussions but i'll
confine its use to yer quote, lulav.

"I think that the division among Christians is the main factor having led to the development of Islam."

[see underlined 4 discussion]

really? are u serious? or is this a whimsical thought or a thought

/post provoking idea/sentence/etc.

ok....i'll bite. what the heck do U ever mean by this stmt?

I really dont have a clue, unless i use my imagination, which in

turn, emphasizes the "my" not "u", and its yer idea; thus i ask

the question in earnest, & not to be a "pain."

Shalom aleichem.

 

[janwoG]

To Him in Me In Him
"I think that the division among Christians is the main factor having led to the development of Islam."
In Egypt there was a constant fight between Greek Orthodox (the religion of the elits) and Copts the religion of the people. One party asked the Arabs to support them against the other party. Then the Arabs never left the country and opened up the conquest of the Arabs of the whole Northern Africa continent up to South of France. The second example is the fight between of Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic. One of the crusade specifically at aimed Constantinople and led to its sack. Later at the End when Constantinople was besieged by the Turks, no one in the West came to their help. This opened up Easter Europe to the Turks up to Vienna. At this time the “catholic” King of France Lewis XIV of France intrigued with the Turks against the “Catholic” emperor of Austria. The recent Balkan was a late result of the Fall of Constantinople. Most Churches founded by Paul have in Minor Asia have been lost to Islam, with weakening of Byzantine Empire, due to Sectarian conflicts between Christians.

 

[ChavaK]

Kippiot weren't in use that early were they? I thought they came into being several hundred years later????

Correct.....covering the head with a yarmulke is rabbinic, not a Torah commandment anyway

 

[Lulav]

Then paul must have been a trend setter!

 

[Lulav]

I would be interested in learning what he has to say in his book on this:

When Paul spends the first 3 chapters speaking about his gospel to the gentiles, and even goes so far as to call them 'sinners' does he say this in chapter 4?

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

How possibly could the Torah which was given to the Jews, be a 'schoolmaster' to the heathen?

Notice he uses 'our', 'us' and 'we'. Either these are Jews (which I don't believe) or he is including himself as a gentile.

 

[visionary]

I would be interested in learning what he has to say in his book on this:

When Paul spends the first 3 chapters speaking about his gospel to the gentiles, and even goes so far as to call them 'sinners' does he say this in chapter 4?



How possibly could the Torah which was given to the Jews, be a 'schoolmaster' to the heathen?

Notice he uses 'our', 'us' and 'we'. Either these are Jews (which I don't believe) or he is including himself as a gentile.

Or he is including everyone under the Law and sin catagory

 

[HopeAbbey]

How possibly could the Torah which was given to the Jews, be a 'schoolmaster' to the heathen?

Notice he uses 'our', 'us' and 'we'. Either these are Jews (which I don't believe) or he is including himself as a gentile.

"We" in Gal. 3:23 is the Jewish people. The people he is writing to were never under the schoolmaster of Torah. He, on the other hand, was. The word "we" or "us" can include the second person or exclude them. The context dictates which use of the word is appropriate. In this case it is obvious that he is referring to himself and the rest of the Jewish people and not to his addressees.

Paul's analogies are usually used to make one point and when taken out of context, or if the analogy is taken too far, it doesn't make sense. Paul's point is that the purpose of the Law was not to bring salvation but to act as a caretaker to keep the Jewish people holy. So there is no reason for the Gentiles to become Jewish and put themselves under the Sinai Covenant in order to merit the World to Come, which is what people were telling them they had to do.

Lancaster goes into a lot more detail than I have time to do here.

 

[visionary]

"We" in Gal. 3:23 is the Jewish people. The people he is writing to were never under the schoolmaster of Torah. He, on the other hand, was. The word "we" or "us" can include the second person or exclude them. The context dictates which use of the word is appropriate. In this case it is obvious that he is referring to himself and the rest of the Jewish people and not to his addressees.

Paul's analogies are usually used to make one point and when taken out of context, or if the analogy is taken too far, it doesn't make sense. Paul's point is that the purpose of the Law was not to bring salvation but to act as a caretaker to keep the Jewish people holy. So there is no reason for the Gentiles to become Jewish and put themselves under the Sinai Covenant in order to merit the World to Come, which is what people were telling them they had to do.

Lancaster goes into a lot more detail than I have time to do here.

Where do people get the idea that keeping the Law of God is a Jewish thing, rather than something God gave and the Jews took ahold of.. and made it their own... why do people think that holy has nothing to do with keeping God's commands. and that God doesn't want or require the Gentiles to be?

 

[HopeAbbey]

Those statements are just wrong!! Either the Torah is God's standard of holy living for all or for none, or else He is a respector of persons and He has 2 classes of children. Gentiles are either grafted into the commonwealth of Israel and must abide as Israel abides or we are not grafted in. Or are Gentiles a naturally better class of people and don't need the Torah or are we such a hopeless bunch of bumpkins that we needn't even bother to try and God doesn't expect anything of us?

Personally, I don't like those options. I'll continue to believe what the Spirit and God's word has led me to believe - I am grafted in, I am to live by the same standard that the natural born lives and I can expect to receive the same blessings as the natural born receives. In other words, I am as a natural born Child of God.

Gentiles who came into the faith were not held to the same standard. This is what the Apostles decided in Acts 15 and 21. I have never heard any other interpretation of those two passages that passed Scriptural muster.

Torah is still the standard for everyone. But Torah does not apply to every person the same way. Only one Jew got to enter the Holy of Holies once a year to make atonement. It doesn't matter how much someone else wanted that job. Only one man got it. Likewise the natural born Kohanim were the only ones allowed to perform sacrifices. For a non Kohen to perform sacrifices is not "keeping Torah" even though sacrifice is a mitzvah. So Gentiles "keep Torah" by doing what the Apostles commanded them to do.

We are all children of Hashem but that doesn't mean we are all exactly the same. Jews and Gentiles simply have different roles, just as men and women have different roles, Levi and Kohen have different roles, etc. Each person should remain as God has called him (1 Cor. 7:17ff).

 

[visionary]

Gentiles who came into the faith were not held to the same standard. This is what the Apostles decided in Acts 15 and 21. I have never heard any other interpretation of those two passages that passed Scriptural muster.

Torah is still the standard for everyone. But Torah does not apply to every person the same way. Only one Jew got to enter the Holy of Holies once a year to make atonement. It doesn't matter how much someone else wanted that job. Only one man got it. Likewise the natural born Kohanim were the only ones allowed to perform sacrifices. For a non Kohen to perform sacrifices is not "keeping Torah" even though sacrifice is a mitzvah. So Gentiles "keep Torah" by doing what the Apostles commanded them to do.

We are all children of Hashem but that doesn't mean we are all exactly the same. Jews and Gentiles simply have different roles, just as men and women have different roles, Levi and Kohen have different roles, etc. Each person should remain as God has called him (1 Cor. 7:17ff).

Everyone.. every human can keep the 10 Words.. without getting into specific roles..

 

[HopeAbbey]

Everyone.. every human can keep the 10 Words.. without getting into specific roles..

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't keep the Ten Words; I believe Gentiles should even remember and honor the Sabbath day.

The standard is quite high for Gentile believers. We are expected to be holy. There are numerous commandments given to us, more than any of us have ever been able to perform perfectly. And all of them come straight from the Torah.

All I am saying is that to place the entire yoke of Torah on Gentile believers is against what the Apostles James and Peter and Paul taught.

 

[visionary]

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't keep the Ten Words; I believe Gentiles should even remember and honor the Sabbath day.

The standard is quite high for Gentile believers. We are expected to be holy. There are numerous commandments given to us, more than any of us have ever been able to perform perfectly. And all of them come straight from the Torah.

All I am saying is that to place the entire yoke of Torah on Gentile believers is against what the Apostles James and Peter and Paul taught.

What is it about having Jewish blood that makes them better equiped to handle the Torah better than a Gentile?

 

[HopeAbbey]

What about a man's blood makes him better equipped to lead the family? Does having a Kohen's blood make someone better equipped to sacrifice animals?

 

[visionary]

What about a man's blood makes him better equipped to lead the family? Does having a Kohen's blood make someone better equipped to sacrifice animals?

exactly.. so we are to obey that which God has given us to do.. and it isn't any more difficult for a Gentile than it is for a Jew.. nor it is required that we all perform the same duties before God.

 

[zaksmummy]

Gentiles who came into the faith were not held to the same standard. This is what the Apostles decided in Acts 15 and 21. I have never heard any other interpretation of those two passages that passed Scriptural muster.

Torah is still the standard for everyone. But Torah does not apply to every person the same way. Only one Jew got to enter the Holy of Holies once a year to make atonement. It doesn't matter how much someone else wanted that job. Only one man got it. Likewise the natural born Kohanim were the only ones allowed to perform sacrifices. For a non Kohen to perform sacrifices is not "keeping Torah" even though sacrifice is a mitzvah. So Gentiles "keep Torah" by doing what the Apostles commanded them to do.

We are all children of Hashem but that doesn't mean we are all exactly the same. Jews and Gentiles simply have different roles, just as men and women have different roles, Levi and Kohen have different roles, etc. Each person should remain as God has called him (1 Cor. 7:17ff).

This is also my understanding of Acts 15.
“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

I think they are saying, this is the basics to start, learn as you go. So as gentiles we are invited to participate in the Torah on an curve (increased Torah keeping as you get more knowledgeable, learn more about God). The problem is that christians generally got stuck at the start of the curve, took this passage and misinterpreted most of what Paul said and just stopped.

 

[Steve Petersen]

This is also my understanding of Acts 15.
“It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

I think they are saying, this is the basics to start, learn as you go. So as gentiles we are invited to participate in the Torah on an curve (increased Torah keeping as you get more knowledgeable, learn more about God). The problem is that christians generally got stuck at the start of the curve, took this passage and misinterpreted most of what Paul said and just stopped.

This would be consistent with rabbinic suggestions not to be overly meticulous with converts, but to give them a few light and a few heavy commandments after conversion.

 

[yedida]

Gentiles who came into the faith were not held to the same standard. This is what the Apostles decided in Acts 15 and 21. I have never heard any other interpretation of those two passages that passed Scriptural muster.

Torah is still the standard for everyone. But Torah does not apply to every person the same way. Only one Jew got to enter the Holy of Holies once a year to make atonement. It doesn't matter how much someone else wanted that job. Only one man got it. Likewise the natural born Kohanim were the only ones allowed to perform sacrifices. For a non Kohen to perform sacrifices is not "keeping Torah" even though sacrifice is a mitzvah. So Gentiles "keep Torah" by doing what the Apostles commanded them to do.

We are all children of Hashem but that doesn't mean we are all exactly the same. Jews and Gentiles simply have different roles, just as men and women have different roles, Levi and Kohen have different roles, etc. Each person should remain as God has called him (1 Cor. 7:17ff).

I speaking here blind of what's to come (been away for 4 days).
I agree that the entire Torah does not apply to every single person, of else we could not honestly state nor believe that Yeshua kept the Torah perfectily. He could not obey things written for women just to state one place he could not obey, yet those commands to women are a part of the Torah....
But the things that applied to the Israelite laity men and women are to be obeyed by all men and women be they Jewish or Gentile believers - this includes the dietary laws, the festivals, planting and reaping, ordinary daily living for the ordinary lay person.
My 2cents understanding of Torah.

 

[yedida]

Zaksmummy and Steve hit the nail on the head. Visionary is correct - there is no difference between the abilities of Jewish persons and Gentile persons. Just simply it's new to Gentiles, a severe culture shock, but it's all for us as well. We're just graciously giving a learning curve, that's all. We're not given a freedom to pick and choose.....

 

[HIM_In_Me_In_HIM]

.....it will be as like the holocaust all over again, but worse b4
Meshiach returns?

or another scenario: that Gog and Maygog surrounding Yerusalem could turn out to be Christians and "like/psuedo"
christians (or muslims maybe/too)?

just two ideas (of many i've heard of over the yrs).