If Evolution were true...

[FrenchyBearpaw]

I'm sure you do... anything to try to stop the "God" problem... won't happen, though. God still talks and people still hear. It is the sane ones that really hear God. Millions of people on the earth hear God. It's a dilemma (for you) and you'll never be able to stop it.

This seems to be quite an assertion, one which I have never seen evidence for. I agree that millions of people a day might claim that god is speaking to them, but how would an objective observer measure this?

 

[Inan3]

This seems to be quite an assertion, one which I have never seen evidence for. I agree that millions of people a day might claim that god is speaking to them, but how would an objective observer measure this?

The same way an objective observer measures a persons sincerity or opinion or view point or character or integrity or thought. Everything is not to be measured by science. Science has it's place but it is by no way the whole of life. Life has many facets and science is just one of them.

That being said, the evidence I would look at (obviously in a different manner than the scientific method) IF an individual shared what God had spoken to them, would be the character and integrity of the person sharing, whether it agreed with the scriptures, and whether it came true.
The scriptures tell us to try the spirits whether they be of God or not.
We do not just accept everything that someone tells us. We get to know them and watch them and see if it proves out. Just as we do in every other part of our lives.

As far as an individual learning for themselves the voice of God. They would basically do it the same way but rather looking within themselves checking their own motives, verifying it with the scriptures, and testing it by seeing if it came to pass. As one does this they begin to learn and become familiar with the difference between their own thoughts and the thoughts of God to them.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Then let me be frank.

I get feelings and think it is God talking to me.

As long as you're being frank, do you think it's possible that your feelings aren't God talking to you?

If you 'have a pill for that', as you say you have, then I submit that is a form of persecution.

If those feelings aren't God talking to you, then wouldn't the advice to seek medical help not be persecution, but sound advice?

 

[Tiberius]

Given that nature approves of diversity, there is no good reason why (some)% of our species do not show perfect evolutionary path or progression from one species to a very distant one. Or "Evolved" one. Each member could exist in a different environment.

The second one would be an organic source for DNA or some other language or code for life. Lets say an ocean floor vent spewing an endless string of DNA code and a random way.

There should be millions of such examples to show how language, DNA, or a symbolic code of some kind could be produced. There are none. Symbolism is the product of Intelligence.

First of all, DNA is not a code. It is a collection of molecules that is able to produce copies of itself. Nothing more. Intelligence is NOT required to produce repeating patterns. Go and google the Giant's Causeway. Look at the repeating patterns there. Do you think this is the product of an intelligence, or do you think that purely natural processes caused this?

And are you really asking why all the intermediate forms that have existed in the past no longer exist? The answer is simple: the were driven to extinction by the species that arose later in some cases, and in other cases the original species no longer existed because it had evolved into another species.

Rocks or snowflakes don't pass on genes. Which can only come from the development of some language, which requires a source of intelligence to be created. Reality is support enough.

What makes you think that DNA requires a language? And as I said before, DNA is not a language. it's simply a collection of molecules that is capable of producing copies of itself.

Well, if evolution were true, we wouldn't see anything that we DON'T see in the world around us because it would take thousands or millions of years for it to happen and WE would no longer be around to see something new or that we DON'T already see in the world around us.

I know that sounds like a riddle but based on that question isn't that true? I'm not trying to be a wise guy. Maybe I am just NOT getting the question.

Ah, but since the scientific explanation says that the universe is extremely old. So, there have been those "thousands of millions of years" for evolution to happen. And, if evolution HAS happened, we would expect to find evidence of that. And we have that evidence.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

If you 'have a pill for that', as you say you have, then I submit that is a form of persecution.
<snip>
And for the record, Christian psychiatrists have ways of making sure atheist psychiatrists don't get a chance to diagnose someone against his will.

Why don't we dial back the criticism of legitimate medicine, please? Taken much further, you could be implying that people should ignore psychiatrists.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why don't we dial back the criticism of legitimate medicine, please? Taken much further, you could be implying that people should ignore psychiatrists.

It's not the medicine I'm harping about -- it's the prognoses.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

It's not the medicine I'm harping about -- it's the prognoses.

It's okay to have an opinion, but this is a public forum and there may be people watching who suffer from psychiatric conditions.

 

[Davian]

This seems to be quite an assertion, one which I have never seen evidence for. I agree that millions of people a day might claim that god is speaking to them, but how would an objective observer measure this?

The same way an objective observer measures a persons sincerity or opinion or view point or character or integrity or thought. Everything is not to be measured by science. Science has it's place but it is by no way the whole of life. Life has many facets and science is just one of them. <snip>

Science can take on anything/anyone that makes a claim.

Does this 'voice of God' provide any information you did not already have, subconsciously or not?

No? Dismissed as imagination, no matter how real it feels. That's is just how the human brain has evolved to work. Very suggestible.

Yes? Can that information be verified and can it be repeated? You would rock the scientific world.




















Nothing yet.

Myself, if I thought I was hearing the 'voice of God' I would ask how find missing children. Cure diseases. Help out on the Unified Theory of everything. The world would change....

 

[AV1611VET]

It's okay to have an opinion, but this is a public forum and there may be people watching who suffer from psychiatric conditions.

And they need help.

Have you been following this thread at all?

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

And they need help.

Have you been following this thread at all?

Yeah, where you claim that schizophrenics really are hearing the voice of God?

 

[sandwiches]

And for the record, Christian psychiatrists have ways of making sure atheist psychiatrists don't get a chance to diagnose someone against his will.

(And if you think it's not done against his will, then you don't live around here.)

I'm sure some people are diagnosed against their will but I'm more curious about your claim regarding Christian psychiatrists. Do you have a link or anything on that specific subject?

 

[Inan3]

Neither does God.

I know people hear voices or get feelings and think it is God talking to them but we have pills for that now.

How is giving someone medication for a neurological disorder "persecution"?

Worse actually. How is the mere existence of medication for a neurological condition persecution? EXTRA

Often those with neurological disorders of some sort or another are treated against their will. That is because they aren't in their right mind and cannot decide for themselves.

Yeah, where you claim that schizophrenics really are hearing the voice of God?

No, that would be KIP above. So it seems AV was right, you haven't been following the thread.

 

[Inan3]

Science can take on anything/anyone that makes a claim.

Does this 'voice of God' provide any information you did not already have, subconsciously or not?

No? Dismissed as imagination, no matter how real it feels. That's is just how the human brain has evolved to work. Very suggestible.

Yes? Can that information be verified and can it be repeated? You would rock the scientific world.

Nothing yet.

Myself, if I thought I was hearing the 'voice of God' I would ask how find missing children. Cure diseases. Help out on the Unified Theory of everything. The world would change....

Well, then I guess you will have to become one of His disciples if you want to hear from Him.

 

[Deaver]

Okay, don't get me wrong. I firmly believe that evolution is a fact.

But for the creationists out there who don't believe that evolution is a fact, I have a question for you.

IF evolution was true, what would we see that we DON'T see in the world around us?

I know I joined this thread very late. However to answer the OP's question directly:

We wouldn't see anything, there would be no world, no universe. Without a creator, there would be nothing.

The answer really boils down to whether we have faith or not. I have answered in other threads that I support creation and then micro-evolution; that is evolution within species.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I have answered in other threads that I support creation and then micro-evolution; that is evolution within species.

So what would prevent speciation? (Bear in mind we've already seen it happen)

 

[rjc34]

Well, then I guess you will have to become one of His disciples if you want to hear from Him.

Ah, the old 'you have to believe in God to believe in God.'

No, you claimed that people hearing God was outside the realm of science. The fact remains though that it is in fact precisely in the realm of scientific inquiry.

Do you hear things from God that you did not previously know? Are they things no human has ever known? (Basically, do any of your millions of people claiming to speak with God ever get any divine revelation?)

 

[rjc34]

We wouldn't see anything, there would be no world, no universe. Without a creator, there would be nothing.

Evolution says nothing about the origins of the universe, the solar system, even the origins of life. Thus your statement is inane and completely devoid of meaning.

The answer really boils down to whether we have faith or not. I have answered in other threads that I support creation and then micro-evolution; that is evolution within species.

As Nathan Poe said... does that rule out speciation events then? (Keep in mind we've observed dozens and dozens of them.)

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

No, that would be KIP above. So it seems AV was right, you haven't been following the thread.

I don't see where I misunderstood. KIP said that "hearing the voice of God" is now a treatable, because hearing voices like that is a form of hallucination (most commonly schizophrenia). AV seemed to say that "hearing the voice of God" is a good thing, not a mental disorder.

If we're talking about the ethics of prescribing drugs for mentally unstable people, that's a different discussion. But that's not what this is about -- it's about AV thinking that evil atheist psychiatrists are snatching up the true believers who are hearing the voice of God and sedating them.

 

[AV1611VET]

But that's not what this is about -- it's about AV thinking that evil atheist psychiatrists are snatching up the true believers who are hearing the voice of God and sedating them.

This post is so full of Arab phone, it's not funny.

For the record though, I want to make it plain that I expressly pointed out that no one was 'sedated' -- they were "rescued" before a diagnosis was made.

The person in question was placed in ward for a week's worth of testing.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

This post is so full of Arab phone, it's not funny.

For the record though, I want to make it plain that I expressly pointed out that no one was 'sedated' -- they were "rescued" before a diagnosis was made.

The person in question was placed in ward for a week's worth of testing.

So wait, let me get this straight. Someone ends up in an atheist psychiatrist's office and they put him/her through a week's worth of testing because the patient "hears the voice of God" or something. Then a Christian psychiatrist rescues this person from that, escaping a diagnosis. Correct me if I'm wrong (want to help you get to 2 million posts after all).

What if the person was schizophrenic?