Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (4)

[visionary]

We are not speaking of the OT here. The Jerusalem Council was called because the legalistic Judaizers were ADDING works (circumcision and keeping the Law of Moses) to the Gospel of grace.

In order to know what law and where it came from... it first must be clarified that it is indeed a law that came down from Mount Sinai.. before it is included in the Mount Sinai ruling.. and circumcision is not a law that offers salvation.. not then nor now...

 

[Studious One]

You misunderstand what Paul meant thats all. Paul beseeches, begs the gentile believers multiple times on different occasions to abstain from sin and adhere to the doctrine. Was it for nothing, was paul speaking into the air? The holy Spirit doesn't transform us over night we must learn, and we do it through the guidence of the HS from the word. Your definition of Pauls teaching seems narrow and full or error, it disregards commandments from Paul showing them in an obscure light. Paul made things very simple.

1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

I submit to you that it is you who misunderstands what Paul meant. The Apostles taught in Acts 15 that the Gentile Converts were not to be required to keep the Mosaic Law. Paul calls the Galatians foolish for allowing someone to bewitch them into turning from liberty in Christ to bondage under the Law. He reminds them that once one comes to faith in Christ, that one is no longer under the law, (not the penalty of the law,... the law) Paul then admonishes the foolish Galatians to reject the law (cast out the bondwoman) and to 'walk in the liberty wherein ye were called.' Paul instructs Timothy that the law is not for the righteous, but for the ungodly.

As I said, it is not I who is misunderstanding the Apostles.

Oh, and Paul told the Romans they were not under the law, but under grace.

 

[visionary]

I submit to you that it is you who misunderstands what Paul meant. The Apostles taught in Acts 15 that the Gentile Converts were not to be required to keep the Mosaic Law. Paul calls the Galatians foolish for allowing someone to bewitch them into turning from liberty in Christ to bondage under the Law. He reminds them that once one comes to faith in Christ, that one is no longer under the law, (not the penalty of the law,... the law) Paul then admonishes the foolish Galatians to reject the law (cast out the bondwoman) and to 'walk in the liberty wherein ye were called.' Paul instructs Timothy that the law is not for the righteous, but for the ungodly.

As I said, it is not I who is misunderstanding the Apostles.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[11822]

I submit to you that it is you who misunderstands what Paul meant. The Apostles taught in Acts 15 that the Gentile Converts were not to be required to keep the Mosaic Law. Paul calls the Galatians foolish for allowing someone to bewitch them into turning from liberty in Christ to bondage under the Law. He reminds them that once one comes to faith in Christ, that one is no longer under the law, (not the penalty of the law,... the law) Paul then admonishes the foolish Galatians to reject the law (cast out the bondwoman) and to 'walk in the liberty wherein ye were called.' Paul instructs Timothy that the law is not for the righteous, but for the ungodly.

As I said, it is not I who is misunderstanding the Apostles.

All i post it what they teach. I just post more teaching than you do. You stick to a extreme and narrow view of what is actually being taught, you accept one part and scoff at the rest.

 

[visionary]

http://www.christianforums.com/users/200390-albums3029-27526/

 

[Studious One]

All i post it what they teach. I just post more teaching than you do.

But my teaching is not twisted.

You stick to a extreme and narrow view of what is actually being taught, you accept one part and scoff at the rest.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It was the serpent in the garden that wanted Adam and Eve to have an open mind to deception.

 

[11822]

So, since you believe that the Holy Spirit teaches you to do what the Apostle's teach, why do you consistently insist on clinging to the bondwoman (law) when the Apostle said to cast the bondwoman (law) out? Is the teacher not to be obeyed in this instance?

You confuse a teaching about OT law keeping vs faith with Paul's teaching to the Church about abstaining from fornication, adultery and idolatry.

Is abstaining from fornication being under the OC bondwomen? No.

Is Paul's command to abstain from fornication putting us under the OC law bondwomen? No

 

[from scratch]

No it leads them not to. Fornicators continue to fornicate until the word tells them its wrong and they receive forgiveness and are saved. If they receive Jesus by the Holy Spirit they don't live in fornication, the flee from it. They resist the devil and the flesh and allow themselves to be lead by the Spirit according to what the apostles teach.

OK I used your word naming a specific sin. The real point is sin and not the specific sin per say. Then the point is what one will present on judgment day. Some will present I didn't fornicate and I'm going to present Jesus. One will be told depart from Me I never knew you and the other will be admitted. I'm not becoming perfect (justified) I'm perfect(justified). This is a either or deal just like being pregnant. Ya is or ya ain't there isn't a sorta pregnant state.

 

[11822]

But my teaching is not twisted.Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It was the serpent in the garden that wanted Adam and Eve to have an open mind to deception.

Im not twisting anything, im posting Jesus words and those of the apostles and haven't speculated or taken anything out of context or left anything out thereby allowing it to be taken out of context. You leave a few things out. You act as if the law of faith is all we're given. You seem to act as if posting the apostles commands is wrong.

 

[11822]

OK I used your word naming a specific sin. The real point is sin and not how one gets there per say. Then the point is What one will present on judgment day. Some will present I didn't fornicate and I'm going to present Jesus. One will be told depart from Me I never knew you and the other will be admitted. I'm not becoming perfect (justified) I'm perfect(justified). This is a either or deal just like being pregnant. Ya is or ya ain't there isn't a sorta pregnant state.

Some may say that but they wont be told to depart for obeying Gods Will thats for sure. It will be because they are workers of iniquity.

Mr 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication

 

[from scratch]

I follow the set of rules according to the word of Jesus and His apostles because the Holy Spirit leads me that way

If you say so. BTW this ain't a buger king deal - it ain't your way. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

and

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Its the Bible way or the highway. You can say that I'm saying my or the highway if you want. It won't change the Bible.

 

[visionary]

If you say so. BTW this ain't a buger king deal - it ain't your way. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

and

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Its the Bible way or the highway. You can say that I'm saying my or the highway if you want. It won't change the Bible.

amen.... Yeshua is the justification, the sanctification, our righteousness..

 

[sheina]

In order to know what law and where it came from... it first must be clarified that it is indeed a law that came down from Mount Sinai.. before it is included in the Mount Sinai ruling.. and circumcision is not a law that offers salvation.. not then nor now...

Circumcision was added to the Law of Moses:

Exodus 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Leviticus 12:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

That the legalistic Judaizers ADDED circumcision (after the manner of Moses) to the Gospel of grace, is a fact according to Acts 15:1.

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

 

[from scratch]

find any scripture where circumcision is tied to salvation... It is Pharisee tradition, probably found in the Talmud..

Just as soon as you tie the law to providing eternal life.

Circumcision is a requirement of the law for all males so subscribing. It isn't optional. No circumcision no law requirement for the Gentile. No law requirement meant no God and no country for the Jew under the law pre cross per the law - Ex 12:48.

 

[11822]

If you say so. BTW this ain't a buger king deal - it ain't your way. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

and

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Its the Bible way or the highway. You can say that I'm saying my or the highway if you want. It won't change the Bible.

This ain't burger King and we don't have it our way, you're right its Gods will to abstain from fornication and we cant add or take away from that. We live by faith and not by the Law and we cant add or take away from that.

 

[from scratch]

Luke 1:6
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

When it comes to conviction of sin or even the condemnation because of continued sin in violation of the Law... Paul is right... it won't have the same effect.. for the sinner.. it looks mean and hard lined on the sinful lifestyle.................... but for those who are walking in accordance to the commandments as God reveals via His Holy Spirit.. it is righteous.. because God is right.. it is right living.

What did Jesus say in Mat 5:20?

 

[Frogster]

find any scripture where circumcision is tied to salvation... It is Pharisee tradition, probably found in the Talmud..

It was their salvation, why did they rely on law, and boast on God, Rom 2Read Micah 3;11.



11 Its heads give judgment for a bribe;
its priests teach for a price;
its prophets practice divination for money;
yet they lean on the Lord and say,
“Is not the Lord in the midst of us?
No disaster shall come upon us.”

 

[11822]

Just as soon as you tie the law to providint eternal life.

Circumcision is a requirement of the law for all males so subscribing. It isn't optional. No circumcision no law requirement for the Gentile. No law requirement meant no God and no country for the Jew under the law pre cross per the law - Ex 12:48.

Paul forbids circumcision, fornication and meat offered to idols.

 

[Frogster]

So this righteous is no longer...??

Psalm 119:142
Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.


Who magnified the Law... Who expounded upon it and gave it more depth.. aka from the letter of the law.. adultery ... to even include lust??

Isaiah 42:21
The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Righteousness is that which is Right and God said that observing His Law is right.. IF God declares they are blameless, who are we to say they are not..

Deuteronomy 6:25
And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

Psalm 119:172
My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

It doesn't matter if you are circumcised or not... keeping the law is what counts.. especially via the Holy Spirit leading you in which is the weightier or more important at the moment..

Romans 2:26
Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

You're are acting like there was a way out of the adamic creation by works.

Use romans 4 or 5 to prove your point, and you get a vanilla cupcake.

Was The ultimate jewish person, Abe, justified by law, or heck, for that matter David?

Your theology only works, if you listen to unsaved jewish rabbis.

 

[Frogster]

Paul forbids circumcision, fornication and meat offered to idols.

go rad 1 cor 10, eat it all..

Actually, that is a teaching of demons

4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Does food matter? SSSStop GOING BY PERTANENT VERSES, RELATIVE TO A STRESSFUL TRANSITIONAL TIME, OF JEW AND GENTILE INTERACTION, AND STUDY THE ISSUE ALREADY, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO KEEP POSTING THE SAME THING TO YOU.

8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.