Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (4)

[from scratch]

What the Old Testament Law Cannot Do:

It cannot justify (Acts 13:38-39; Galatians 2:16).
It cannot redeem (Romans 3:24-31; Galatians 3:13-14).
It cannot give an inheritance (Romans 4:13-14).
It cannot control sin in man (Romans 7:7-23; 8:2).
It cannot free from sin and death (Romans 8:2).
It cannot free a sinner from condemnation (Romans 8:1-4).
It cannot bring righteousness (Romans 8:4).
It cannot impart the Holy Spirit (Galatians 3:2).
It cannot free from the curse (Galatians 3:10,14).
It cannot impart grace (Galatians 5:4).
It cannot enable a man to obey (Hebrews 7:18).
It cannot make perfect (Hebrews 7:19).

As the above Scripture states, the law is unable to do more than it is able to do.

The purpose of the law is to reveal sin and lead men to Christ. (Romans 3:19-20; 7:12-13; 1Timothy 1:9-10; Galatians 3:24-25).

What are the requirements of the Old Testament Law? Galatians 3:10 speaks of a two-fold requirement:

Continual obedience and obedience in all things. (Deuteronomy 11:22; 27:26; James 2:10)

This is why no man can have righteousness through the law; as sinners we cannot fulfill its high demands.

Sure you're not a preacher? You do better than many of them. Good work!

 

[sheina]

Sure you're not a preacher? You do better than many of them. Good work!

Nope, but my husband is and I learn from him...

 

[Exodus35]

I don't eat easter eggs, nor dye them. I do not eat easter ham. I do not eat it Sam I am.

Far be it from me to use the passage in Acts 10 to justify eating pork... I have a different passage to use...

1 Timothy 4:1-4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

Now, according to Paul's epistle to Timothy, those who command people to abstain from meats are speaking lies in hypocrisy... having their conscience seared. Paul clearly states that every creature (not some creatures) of God is good and nothing to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving. Whatever meat is laid before me on my table is not to be refused according to the Word of God. So you can cease and desist with your condemning spirit toward me.

I don't eat meat with blood in it. We cook our meat thoroughly. The forbidding of meats with blood was for health reasons.

And you think that pork is safe to consume? It's filled with worms. They are garbage dumps that eat their own young. Doctors even encourage people to refrain from pork due to "health reasons." So you would thankfully eat a horse if it were laid before you to eat? Would you eat a human thankfully if it were put before you to eat? After all, humans have flesh/meat. So, that would mean that you are free to eat a human, right?
Pig, rabbit, catfish, shellfish etc... were never considered as something to be eaten as food.
I didn't condemn you. I pointed out what scripture says. And the word 'meats' can refer to meat as in 'carni' but it also means 'food'. Food as in, what is intended to be food. Although a human has meat, God didn't intend humans to be a source of FOOD for other humans. Are humans not a creature? If you ate a dog or a cat in this country, you would be carried off to jail. Why? Because there are certain 'meats' (as in carni) that we all know are NOT to be consumed as food.
This is the very same argument that homosexuals use to justify their lifestyle choices. Saying that the law is done away with and use the whole, "well, God did away with the law, so we are free to be homosexuals." They even throw in the, "Well, do you eat pork, shellfish etc...?" The point is that God's law (according to them) is done away with, and so they are free to be homosexuals now because God's grace is sufficient and they use YOUR argument to justify themselves.

James 2:8-12 refers to the law as being the ROYAL LAW and the PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James 1:21-25 refers to the law as the perfect law of liberty to be received with meekness.
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work (<- There's that nasty word!!! Oh my gosh, does that actually say WORK?) , this man shall be blessed in his deed.


1 Corinthians 7:39
The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
I just threw that in to prove once again that even Paul did NOT teach against the law but his teaching were in harmony with the law.

 

[Exodus35]

What the Old Testament Law Cannot Do:

It cannot justify (Acts 13:38-39; Galatians 2:16).
It cannot redeem (Romans 3:24-31; Galatians 3:13-14).
It cannot give an inheritance (Romans 4:13-14).
It cannot control sin in man (Romans 7:7-23; 8:2).
It cannot free from sin and death (Romans 8:2).
It cannot free a sinner from condemnation (Romans 8:1-4).
It cannot bring righteousness (Romans 8:4).
It cannot impart the Holy Spirit (Galatians 3:2).
It cannot free from the curse (Galatians 3:10,14).
It cannot impart grace (Galatians 5:4).
It cannot enable a man to obey (Hebrews 7:18).
It cannot make perfect (Hebrews 7:19).

As the above Scripture states, the law is unable to do more than it is able to do.

The purpose of the law is to reveal sin and lead men to Christ. (Romans 3:19-20; 7:12-13; 1Timothy 1:9-10; Galatians 3:24-25).

What are the requirements of the Old Testament Law? Galatians 3:10 speaks of a two-fold requirement:

Continual obedience and obedience in all things. (Deuteronomy 11:22; 27:26; James 2:10)

This is why no man can have righteousness through the law; as sinners we cannot fulfill its high demands.

If you are born of the Spirit, according to scripture, you can't sin - at least you won't look for ways to sin.
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
No one said that the law saves you. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ saves you. If you do believe and are born again, regenerated by his Spirit, you are able to obey His commands. If you are no longer a sinner, because you are born of God, you won't look for ways to be able to transgress the law. Sin is the transgression of the law.
1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
No one said that we will be perfect. But Jesus did tell us to be perfect just as the Father in heaven is perfect. Our perfect Father in Heaven gave the perfect law. If we stumble in one point, we are guilty of all (all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory - every man has transgressed the law). God made provision for us through Jesus Christ, our advocate.
1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not ( transgress the law - for sin is the transgression of the law). And if any man sin ( transgress the law), we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[11822]

What doesn't make sense is being called a law pusher after reiterating Jesus and the apostles teaching. How is teaching the law of "love thy neighbor" or "abstaining from fornication" wrong? This is a thread about the commandments and thats what we discuss here, which commandments fall under Gods will and which do not. It just so happens that some of the 10 Cs are the same as Gods will. Its not faith in the law. Its just faith in the Lord Jesus and His word, His teaching. Why was the doctrine given to us if not to be learned and obeyed? The apostles are the law pushers. Im only posting their law. Im a law poster.

 

[Arthur57]

abt the color coding or being of the mind of Christ? iow if your not of the mind of Christ then you are still under a tutour..therefore fake it till you make it.

The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God.

The mind of Christ is subject to the law of God. This make His believers walk in the law, not above the law, not out of the law, not even under the law, but within the law, in the path of the law. The law act as a tutor for those who live with their carnal minds, those who are under the law, out of the law or above the law, to guide them and bring them within the law.

 

[Arthur57]

If we love Him (heart), we will obey His commandments. Didn't He say that is how our love for Him will be shown? Right obedience comes out of love

May I asked you, obedience to what? How would you shows your love to God, and how would you shows your love to your neighbor.

Please describe what love is.

 

[Arthur57]

Really did the young man believe his efforts were in vain? He confidently said so what, Jesus I have done all these things and have life. He is clearly mocking Jesus. Yet he leaves with remorse knowing he failed at both making a fool of God and not securing eternal life.

Jesus (God) would know a doer. It is simple, the Scripture clearly says there aren't any.

The point that Jesus wants to express is that this young man, as almost all of the Jews and the Pharisees, is that they keep the law for SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS. This He rebuke by advising the young man to sold his things and share it to the people who need it, and then follow Him. Which mean, the young man has given an advice to love his neighbor, which he didn't have so far, despite his perfect obedience.

 

[11822]

The point that Jesus wants to express is that this young man, as almost all of the Jews and the Pharisees, is that they keep the law for SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS. This He rebuke by advising the young man to sold his things and share it to the people who need it, and then follow Him. Which mean, the young man has given an advice to love his neighbor, which he didn't have so far, despite his perfect obedience.

Love thy neighbor is listed as one of the commandments Jesus told the man to obey. We can accept that commandment but not the rest.

 

[ricker]

And you think that pork is safe to consume? It's filled with worms. They are garbage dumps that eat their own young. Doctors even encourage people to refrain from pork due to "health reasons.

I don't have a doctorate in food and physiology like you probably do , but I do know that millions or billions of people, throughout history and now, eat pork with no apparent ill effect. Unsafe? I don't think so.

It's the other white meat, you know!

Edit to add, if they eat their own young, why don't they become extinct?

 

[Arthur57]

Originally Posted by Arthur57

Ah, an ignorance because you didn't know it. Never mind, you are forgiven. Why should he redeem those ignorant people who transgress his law? Burn them and create new instead. But he came and died to redeem them because he could not change his law; if he could change it, he didn't need to come and die. This truth affirms that he came to justify and glorify his law. Think deeper, dig deeper to the spiritual truth behind those mere wording.

Funny, Paul tells us that God took away the sting of death for those who trust His Son.

The sting of death is sin. Sin is a transgression to His law. What he took away is the sin, not His law. Are you so confuse that you couldn't comprehend those simple wording?
​

Jesus didn't take away the law as such. God the Father did as He promised and used His only begotten Son Jesus to achieve this feat.

A very simple and plain truth still be denied? Up to you brother. To proud to see the truth?

What ever happened to Mat 5:17

You tell me.

What do you make of this - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Why did Jesus say "a new commandment" while He knew that this law already given thousand years ago by Himself? You tell me.

You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:18.

Nope He came to fulfill the law, remember v 17. And in LK 24:44 Jesus He did just that.

Fulfilling the law is glorifying the law, upholding the law, keeping it and obeying it. The law is the transcription of God character for it contains the principle of His agape love, therefore, it was Christ duty to glorify the law with his deeds. I don't understand you twisting around such a plain truth? English is not my language but I am sure I know what I say.

Who are the first Christians? I think they were 100% bloodline Jews. This isn't enough to extablish Christian custom. They fully observed Jewish custom and law. It isn't like flipping a light switch.

Jesus said Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The Apostles talked about an unbearable yoke being the law in Acts 15 as the law of Moses and not the oral law.

Hey now none, I mean noe of the grace pushers are saying the law is wicked.

Again twisting around to defense a weak point? Useless. Anybody can see it.

The Holy Spirit does and you say the law guides you.This is yet another unfounded and unsupportable accusation not pertinent to the discussion.

Ah, but the truth is I have corrected and explained so many of your views that is not supported by the Scripture. Only you didn't want to admit it.

You can check the whole conversation between us again, and find out how many holes in your theory left undefended or speechless. But nothing of mine.

 

[11822]

Why did Jesus say "a new commandment" while He knew that this law already given thousand years ago by Himself? You tell me.

While you guys are at it figure this one out too and let me know what it means.

1 John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

 

[Arthur57]

If the rich young ruler believed that by obeying the commandments he would inherit eternal life, then why did he ask Jesus " Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" (Matthew 19:16b) Was that enough to have eternal life? He told Jesus that he had kept the commandments from his youth. This young man KNEW he lacked something that kept him from inheriting eternal life, for he asked Jesus: "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?" (Matthew 19:20b) When Jesus told him what he "lacked", did he "obey" Jesus and do what He what he was told to do? "But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions." (Matthew 19:22) Obviously he did not. And obviously, this young man was "coveting" his possessions. therefore he did not "obey all the commandments". He was also lying (bearing false witness) to Jesus.

Jesus was not "mocking the man", He was using the commandments to prove that the man was not obeying the commandments. In addition, Jesus was proving that "obeying the commandments" is not a man's "ticket to heaven".

I'm sorry I must correct you.

The young man tell the truth, he didn't know what he lack.

But Jesus knew, the young man lacked "love" which is the principle of the commandment he did kept perfectly. The man was obeying perfectly the commandment but didn't fulfill the law demands, for he lacked the "love", he failed to fulfill the spirit of the law. The same as Saul the Pharisee, claiming himself blameless in his obedience to the law, but he knew he lacks the faith in the Savior, all what he did was self righteousness.

The point I want to correct you, is you keep saying no one can keep the law and I proved many can keep the law of the OT, 613 mitzvah perfect and blameless.

 

[listed]

Is there some wacky theology here or what? Not it mention some very ill informed people about meats. There is going on about the ills of pork and nothing about kosher chicken. Absolutely incredible. Chickens will kill and eat each other over something stupid as an injury. They will even poop on thier young.

If one eats any kind of meat they have worms. Worms are a primary factor in aging.

 

[Arthur57]

I agree. There is a big hole in your comprehension of Scripturre.

Matthew 23:23 was not written to the Gentiles. Read it carefully and prayerfully. It was written to Scribes and Pharisees... Jewish religious leaders who were required to tithe according to the Mosaic Law.

All what is written in the Scripture is also for us to study, and accept which one might be applied to us, Christ believers.

If you know what is the point of giving tithe as mentioned in the Scripture, then you know, that Mat. 23:23 is also for you.

 

[11822]

I'm sorry I must correct you.

The young man tell the truth, he didn't know what he lack.

But Jesus knew, the young man lacked "love" which is the principle of the commandment he did kept perfectly. The man was obeying perfectly the commandment but didn't fulfill the law demands, for he lacked the "love", he failed to fulfill the spirit of the law. The same as Saul the Pharisee, claiming himself blameless in his obedience to the law, but he knew he lacks the faith in the Savior, all what he did was self righteousness.

The point I want to correct you, is you keep saying no one can keep the law and I proved many can keep the law of the OT, 613 mitzvah perfect and blameless.

Is the teaching to abstain from materialism thats found in Mathew 6:19-34 also found somewhere in the OT?

 

[Arthur57]

Originally Posted by MamaZ

Righteousness does not come from the law. Righteousness comes from Christ and walking in faith.
​

The law cannot save/justify, sanctify/perfect or make one righteous. All the law can do is condemn and put that person under its curse (Galatians 3:10-12)

So, in order not to come under condemnation of the law, what should you do?

 

[Arthur57]

Nope again. I'm not a law keeper. And incidence isn't obedience ever. You keep insisting it is though.

Not a law keeper, then a law breaker. Simple as that.

or an Out law, like in the western cowboy monies

 

[Arthur57]

There is only one place that I know Paul teach the law and it isn't to Christians, it is to children Eph 6. Every where else Paul uses the law as a launching pad for his teaching. Paul uses the familiar to teach from. This is far different than teaching required observance.

Listen you can agravate me all you wish. I won't cave in. Salvation and maintainece of it is by faith alone - Gal 3:1-3.

Hasn't I rebuke you and all your verses given to sustain your point?

And I remember many is left speechless.

 

[sheina]

So, in order not to come under condemnation of the law, what should you do?

Walk after/in the Spirit:

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.