Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (4)

[from scratch]

If we love Him (heart), we will obey His commandments. Didn't He say that is how our love for Him will be shown? Right obedience comes out of love

If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love.

 

[visionary]

If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love.

Amen

 

[from scratch]

That is not what is said or meant there.

So what is Paul talking about or trying to convey. A sermon on marriage is very out of place. Using marriage as an illustration isn't though.

 

[from scratch]

No. He spoke the truth. Paul confirm this.

Romans 10:5
For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”
Galatians 3:12
Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

Nope!

Jesus knew that this young man is keeping the law for self righteousness, he lacked the faith. Therefore, Jesus said, if he will be perfect, he must shows his love to his neighbor. And to have love, is to have first faith in the coming Savior as presented by the ceremonial laws, to come to Christ and be His follower.

Really did the young man believe his efforts were in vain? He confidently said so what, Jesus I have done all these things and have life. He is clearly mocking Jesus. Yet he leaves with remorse knowing he failed at both making a fool of God and not securing eternal life.

Jesus (God) would know a doer. It is simple, the Scripture clearly says there aren't any.

 

[11822]

No. He spoke the truth. Paul confirm this.

Romans 10:5
For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”
Galatians 3:12
Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”



Nope!

.

Jesus knew that this young man is keeping the law for self righteousness, he lacked the faith. Therefore, Jesus said, if he will be perfect, he must shows his love to his neighbor. And to have love, is to have first faith in the coming Savior as presented by the ceremonial laws, to come to Christ and be His follower.

Maybe the man was trying to be self righteous but Jesus does teach that we should sell all that we own and follow him. Is seems like speculation to say Jesus only told the man to sell all he owns because the man was trying to be self righteous. The man asked what hes still lacked, i think Jesus was telling the man the truth about selling all he owns. The apostles and the early church sold all they owned so it lines up with Jesus teaching elsewhere. We are commanded to be perfect and also taught to sell all we own, so maybe Jesus was just telling the truth a third time.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I don't understand you.

abt the color coding or being of the mind of Christ? iow if your not of the mind of Christ then you are still under a tutour..therefore fake it till you make it.

 

[from scratch]

We're bound to the Lord and His word which includes NT teaching from the apostles. You tell us we can obey love thy neighbor but if we obey the commandment to abstain from fornication we're under the curse of the law. Its not logical on any planet in the universe.

You think Studious One presents some of the law as a requirement. Now that is funny.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

I don't think Christians have an obligation to fulfill the ten commandments for the sake of following a specific articulation of written "law". We are not under the law of the OT. We live by the law of love and faith which is something all together different. Many of them are common sense morality though. I don't think Christians murder for example.

 

[11822]

If we love Him (heart), we will obey His commandments. Didn't He say that is how our love for Him will be shown? Right obedience comes out of love

Thats what i believe. If we don't obey God it shows we don't love God as we should. His grace will sustain us but we must learn to obey God.

 

[11822]

You think Studious One presents some of the law as a requirement. Now that is funny.

MY point was that we are commanded to love thy neighbor and also to abstain from fornication, both commandments are equally important to obey. Studious is saying im under the curse for obeying abstinence from fornication which is false because it depends on the motivation not the act of obeying. They are both laws and if one would put us under the curse so would the other. If im trying to love my neighbor to justify myself and become self righteous it would be no different from any other law. Motivation for obedience is what puts one under the curse, not the act itself.

 

[from scratch]

Ah, an ignorance because you didn't know it. Never mind, you are forgiven. Why should he redeem those ignorant people who transgress his law? Burn them and create new instead. But he came and died to redeem them because he could not change his law; if he could change it, he didn't need to come and die. This truth affirms that he came to justify and glorify his law. Think deeper, dig deeper to the spiritual truth behind those mere wording.

Funny, Paul tells us that God took away the sting of death for those who trust His Son.

The sting of death is sin. Sin is a transgression to His law. What he took away is the sin, not His law. Are you so confuse that you couldn't comprehend those simple wording?

Jesus didn't take away the law as such. God the Father did as He promised and used His only begotten Son Jesus to achieve this feat.

Unbelieveable! So hard you tried to reject the truth, that you blindly says the word you say above. If Jesus didn't glorify the law with his life, he did sin, simple as that, and He failed to be our redeemer.

What ever happened to Mat 5:17

There is no new law, the 10 Cs is the same law given to those before Christ and to those after the cross, for it just remain in it jurisdiction, as it is eternal, for the law is the transcription of God's unselfish love. Nothing wrong with the old letter of the law, as long you keep it with faith in Christ. Paul was the chief of sinners doesn't mean he remains in that condition.

What do you make of this - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Phil. 3:12-14.

Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. 1 Cor. 9:26,27.

That is walking after the Spirit, to achieve the fulfillment of the righteousness of the law in him. (Romans 8:4).



We have wisdom and logic thinking, led by the Spirit.
Not necessary to be written in the Scripture, but Christ life and death glorify and justify the righteousness and eternal moral obligation of His law.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. Matthew 5:16. And the standard of good works is the law, the Ten Cs. If Jesus didn't glorify the law, He transgress the law.

Nope He came to fulfill the law, remember v 17. And in LK 24:44 Jesus He did just that.

In Act 15 is not mentioned what is already a custom of Christian living, keeping the Ten Cs, for there was never in the apostles minds that this law ended at the cross. This is a believe that raised later on among Christianity, where the eat of the hoax of Satan. The Mosaic law is not a burden at all, the law of God would never be a burden, why should it be? The ceremonial laws pointed out to Christ, it is not a burden, it is a blessing for Israel to know their coming savior and put their faith in Him. You can read in Psalm how the author glorify the law. The same Paul had said: The law is holy, good and just! So, how it could become a burden? The Mosaic law just become a burden when some one tried to keep and obey it on his own strength, out of Christ. This what become the burden of Israel, seeking self righteousness which Paul is very much against it.

Who are the first Christians? I think they were 100% bloodline Jews. This isn't enough to extablish Christian custom. They fully observed Jewish custom and law. It isn't like flipping a light switch.

Jesus said Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The Apostles talked about an unbearable yoke being the law in Acts 15 as the law of Moses and not the oral law.

Hey now none, I mean noe of the grace pushers are saying the law is wicked.

You really need the Spirit to guide you.

The Holy Spirit does and you say the law guides you.

I think I have presented the truth, supported by the Spirit. Only it is against what you believe, which unfortunately is against the Scripture.

This is yet another unfounded and unsupportable accusation not pertinent to the discussion.

 

[from scratch]

The rest of the story from the "law keepers" version of the Scriptures:

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by "keeping of the 10 commandments", that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Is this what it is REALLY supposed to say? However, this is the message that is coming across loud and clear by those who would put everybody back under the bondage to the OT law.

Yes Paul is serious....he states that we are saved by grace and kept by grace without the admixture of the OT law.

Here is the rest of the story from those who believe all are saved by grace through faith and kept by that same grace through faith...

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Are you "transformed" by the "keeping of the OT law?

Great question!!!

 

[from scratch]

Illogical. We can't say its good to obey love thy neighbor and not the rest that Christ and the apostles gave us. Are we a law keeper for obeying love thy neighbor? Yes we are.

Nope incidence isn't obedience.

 

[11822]

Nope incidence isn't obedience.

The nope in your reply is wrong. It seems to suggest my statement is wrong with a nifty little catch phrase you use. What i said is correct.

 

[11822]

Really did the young man believe his efforts were in vain? He confidently said so what, Jesus I have done all these things and have life. He is clearly mocking Jesus. Yet he leaves with remorse knowing he failed at both making a fool of God and not securing eternal life.

Jesus (God) would know a doer. It is simple, the Scripture clearly says there aren't any.

I don't think thats clear at all. But even if the man was mocking Jesus, was Jesus mocking the man when Jesus said "if thou will enter life obey the commandments"?

 

[11822]

Really did the young man believe his efforts were in vain? He confidently said so what, Jesus I have done all these things and have life. He is clearly mocking Jesus. Yet he leaves with remorse knowing he failed at both making a fool of God and not securing eternal life.

Jesus (God) would know a doer. It is simple, the Scripture clearly says there aren't any.

This is what the young man said, it isn't clear that he's mocking. He was young and immature as we all are at one point. We grow in our walk with God and this young man is no different. The young man could have actually been asking Jesus what he lacked. Its not clear. But what is clear is that those commandments are reiterated by Paul when teaching the greatest commandment in Romans chapter 13. And the apostles teach them throughout the NT


16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

 

[visionary]

This is what the young man said, it isn't clear that he's mocking. He was young and immature as we all are at one point. We grow in our walk with God and this young man is no different. The young man could have actually been asking Jesus what he lacked. Its not clear. But what is clear is that those commandments are reiterated by Paul when teaching the greatest commandment in Romans chapter 13. And the apostles teach them throughout the NT


16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

The young fellow at least recognized within himself that something was still missing.. that "hole in the heart" part.

 

[sheina]

I don't think thats clear at all. But even if the man was mocking Jesus, was Jesus mocking the man when Jesus said "if thou will enter life obey the commandments"?

If the rich young ruler believed that by obeying the commandments he would inherit eternal life, then why did he ask Jesus " Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" (Matthew 19:16b) Was that enough to have eternal life? He told Jesus that he had kept the commandments from his youth. This young man KNEW he lacked something that kept him from inheriting eternal life, for he asked Jesus: "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?" (Matthew 19:20b) When Jesus told him what he "lacked", did he "obey" Jesus and do what He what he was told to do? "But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions." (Matthew 19:22) Obviously he did not. And obviously, this young man was "coveting" his possessions. therefore he did not "obey all the commandments". He was also lying (bearing false witness) to Jesus.

Jesus was not "mocking the man", He was using the commandments to prove that the man was not obeying the commandments. In addition, Jesus was proving that "obeying the commandments" is not a man's "ticket to heaven".

 

[11822]

The young fellow at least recognized within himself that something was still missing.. that "hole in the heart" part.

The young man left sorrowful but that shows that he probably believed in Jesus message. Maybe he didn't understand it perfectly just like we don't sometimes and maybe he was self righteous or maybe it was more covetousness or idolatry. But we are all like that until we learn to become humble and trust the lord for righteousness and not worry about what we will eat or what clothes we will wear tomorrow. We are not much different than the rich man. Who among us is like the apostles and first Christians that sold all they own and followed after Jesus? Who knows what became of the man after hearing the Lords words.

 

[11822]

If the rich young ruler believed that by obeying the commandments he would inherit eternal life, then why did he ask Jesus " Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" (Matthew 19:16b) Was that enough to have eternal life? He told Jesus that he had kept the commandments from his youth. This young man KNEW he lacked something that kept him from inheriting eternal life, for he asked Jesus: "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?" (Matthew 19:20b) When Jesus told him what he "lacked", did he "obey" Jesus and do what He what he was told to do? "But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions." (Matthew 19:22) Obviously he did not. And obviously, this young man was "coveting" his possessions. therefore he did not "obey all the commandments". He was also lying (bearing false witness) to Jesus.

Jesus was not "mocking the man", He was using the commandments to prove that the man was not obeying the commandments. In addition, Jesus was proving that "obeying the commandments" is not a man's "ticket to heaven".

It calls for speculation and is argumentative. Why do we judge the rich man when we're just like him? Im sure we all own things that could feed the poor. Who hasn't thought obedience to the law makes us righteous at one point in our life before we grew up? It was once speculated that the man was going to hell but thats not clear either.


Was Jesus mocking the man when he told him to obey the commandments? Why does Paul reiterate the commandments in Romans chapter 13 and why do the apostles teach them throughout the NT?