Harold Camping - The Fraud Exposed

[OpenDoor]

I don't understand the graph...

 

[SummaScriptura]

I just finished listening to Harold Camping.

He's unrepentant.

Judgment Day came on May 21... spiritually. He admits he was wrong on the physical aspect of it. He implied the physical aspect comes October 21. He admitted he was able to apologize for having been wrong about the spiritual part, but then he never did. The reason he was wrong about the physical part is he did not have all the information. The world DID change May 21, you can't tell by the look of it but it changed. The world is under judgement now. He was a bit vague but seemed to be saying they would evangelize no more since the world is under judgment now.

He's not sending anyone their money. He never advises people what to do with their money. If they lost all they had this could be for their good as they will need to rely upon God more and pray more.

He cannot take responsibility for any bad decisions which were made in light of the impending doom on May 21, he's only a Bible teacher. He is unlike so many because he can admit he was wrong most others cannot.

Here was one bizarre tangent he went on... When asked if only a certain kind of Christian could go to heaven in the Rapture, what about Hindus Muslims and the rest, his reply was... anyone, Muslim, Hindu or wahtever could go up in the Rapture if God chose to save them. Then he bagan to tear almost all other Christians a new one by describing how all the denominations of Christianity have interpreted the Bible wrong and all of the denominations contradict each other. Yes, this statement followed hard on the heels of the other one about Raptured "Hindus and Muslims".

Since the late 1970's in San Francisco, I became aware of the scourge to God's vineyard known as Harold Camping. He's pushing 90 now, with no signs of letting up.

 

[OpenDoor]

I just finished listening to Harold Camping.

He's unrepentant.

Judgment Day came on May 21... spiritually. He admits he was wrong on the physical aspect of it. He implied the physical aspect comes October 21. He admitted he was able to apologize for having been wrong about the spiritual part, but then he never did. The reason he was wrong about the physical part is he did not have all the information. The world DID change May 21, you can't tell by the look of it but it changed. The world is under judgement now. He was a bit vague but seemed to be saying they would evangelize no more since the world is under judgment now.

He's not sending anyone their money. He never advises people what to do with their money. If they lost all they had this could be for their good as they will need to rely upon God more and pray more.

He cannot take responsibility for any bad decisions which were made in light of the impending doom on May 21, he's only a Bible teacher. He is unlike so many because he can admit he was wrong most others cannot.

Here was one bizarre tangent he went on... When asked if only a certain kind of Christian could go to heaven in the Rapture, what about Hindus Muslims and the rest, his reply was... anyone, Muslim, Hindu or wahtever could go up in the Rapture if God chose to save them. Then he bagan to tear almost all other Christians a new one by describing how all the denominations of Christianity have interpreted the Bible wrong and all of the denominations contradict each other. Yes, this statement followed hard on the heels of the other one about Raptured "Hindus and Muslims".

Since the late 1970's in San Francisco, I became aware of the scourge to God's vineyard known as Harold Camping. He's pushing 90 now, with no signs of letting up.

If you have a link please post it.

 

[SummaScriptura]

Its not an archived message.

I recorded it, about 70 mins of it, I think it was 90 but missed some.

I'll MP3 it and look for a place on line to put it.

 

[pgp_protector]

I just finished listening to Harold Camping.

He's unrepentant.

Judgment Day came on May 21... spiritually. He admits he was wrong on the physical aspect of it. He implied the physical aspect comes October 21. He admitted he was able to apologize for having been wrong about the spiritual part, but then he never did. The reason he was wrong about the physical part is he did not have all the information. The world DID change May 21, you can't tell by the look of it but it changed. The world is under judgement now. He was a bit vague but seemed to be saying they would evangelize no more since the world is under judgment now.

He's not sending anyone their money. He never advises people what to do with their money. If they lost all they had this could be for their good as they will need to rely upon God more and pray more.

He cannot take responsibility for any bad decisions which were made in light of the impending doom on May 21, he's only a Bible teacher. He is unlike so many because he can admit he was wrong most others cannot.

Here was one bizarre tangent he went on... When asked if only a certain kind of Christian could go to heaven in the Rapture, what about Hindus Muslims and the rest, his reply was... anyone, Muslim, Hindu or wahtever could go up in the Rapture if God chose to save them. Then he bagan to tear almost all other Christians a new one by describing how all the denominations of Christianity have interpreted the Bible wrong and all of the denominations contradict each other. Yes, this statement followed hard on the heels of the other one about Raptured "Hindus and Muslims".

Since the late 1970's in San Francisco, I became aware of the scourge to God's vineyard known as Harold Camping. He's pushing 90 now, with no signs of letting up.

I was dumbfounded by what he was saying. I'd also like to know why he still need to keep preaching if their is no more salvation.

 

[Achilles6129]

As I wrote in my OP, Harold Camping is an evil man and a charlatan. He has no intention of giving anyone's money back. His biblical claims are absurd and he uses ridiculous numerologies to come up with his dates instead of reading what Christ is saying. This man is downright dangerous. I will have more to say about this later.

 

[Biblicist]

Ricker (# 21)

My atheist brother who crows on facebook all the time loves stuff like this. Some people definitely give us a bad name.

Take heart, I’m not all that sure as to how many of those poor gullible sods were actually born again believers but there have certainly been a lot of non-Christians who were conned into believing that Global Warming was a reality.

 

[razeontherock]

A few weeks before the rapture no-show, Camping was offered a $100,000 donation if he would sign over the ownership of his station beginning May 22. He did not take up that offer. Does that strike you as the actions of a true-believer?

Hey, why ya gotta go involving facts with this, you?

 

[OpenDoor]

YouTube - ‪Camping speaks after failed Rapture prediction‬‏

very sad

 

[Yab Yum]

It is indeed sad. The banality of evil.

 

[Stryder06]

This man needs prayer.

 

[heymikey80]

The "spiritual judgment" resembles the SDA response to the Great Disappointment.

 

[Stryder06]

The "spiritual judgment" resembles the SDA response to the Great Disappointment.

SDA's didn't exist. Take your pick of a protestant denomination at the time and they were part of the disappointment

 

[98cwitr]

Cons gonna con.

 

[Steve Petersen]

This man is an incredibly evil individual. Just think of everything that his followers went through - all the time, money, and prestige they wasted. Of course, it was their own fault for following him - but something tells me he took advantage of the fact that they wanted to be raptured and wanted Jesus Christ to return.

The bottom line for Harold Camping and his followers is that we still need a global government and an antichrist before the book of Revelation can even begin. In addition, there is no "rapture" as Camping and his followers believe in it.

Here's a short article showing just how evil this man is:

Apocalypse believers await end, skeptics carry on - Yahoo! News








When the longed-for hour failed to arrive, the only solace was:





Now let me give you some real end-of-the-world predictions:

"25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken." Lu. 21:25-26

In other words, the human race will know that something is wrong, and be unable to do anything about it. It will be a time of very intense suffering, talked about in Mt. 24, Revelation, etc. There will be no rapture prior to the tribulation - that's a misinterpretation of Scripture.

Unfortunately, it seems that Camping and his followers have rejected the Scriptures.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions about things that aren't empirical: we can say what we want about things that can't be proven outside of our theological interpretations.

But the guy is nearly 90 years old. Give him a break. Wonder how rational we will be when we get to his age?

 

[Achilles6129]

Its not an archived message.

I recorded it, about 70 mins of it, I think it was 90 but missed some.

I'll MP3 it and look for a place on line to put it.

I have the pertinent Camping quotes from news websites. Hopefully, no-one will be following him this time and thus his ridiculous Oct. 21st end prediction will pass without anyone being financially or emotionally harmed.

In addition, I will show why Camping is so off base and why in fact the world cannot possibly end on Oct. 21st, with actual real quotes from Scriptures and not some wild numerology.

But first to Camping's response.

Harold Camping Uses View on Hell to Justify Rapture Prediction, Christian News

But when Saturday came and he was still on earth and apocalyptic disasters didn't show up, he began to search for new answers.
And now, he believes he's got it – again.

Camping goes on to state that he does not believe in eternal torment in the LOF because a "loving God" would never do that. He then states that a loving God would never make someone suffer for 5 months as he himself predicted.

Speaking from the Family Radio headquarters in Oakland, Calif., he said God is a merciful, loving and compassionate God who would not let anyone suffer hell on earth just as He won't let anyone suffer an eternal hell.

"So as we can see that there is no eternity in hell as God is a loving and compassionate and merciful God, so if we have no eternal hell doctrine then we should also expect ... no hell on earth for five months ... because it's not in God's holy and perfect [nature] to have any long-term suffering for anyone," he contended.

So essentially, with his "newfound revelation" Camping now "knows" that the end of the world/rapture will now all occur in just one day, since God would never let anyone suffer for 5 months on end.

With that understanding, Camping concluded that the rapture and massive destruction will occur not over the course of five months, as he had originally predicted, but all on the last day – Oct. 21.

"It's all going to be compressed on the last day," he contended newly. And while a physical Judgment Day did not occur on May 21, he said a spiritual one came on Saturday and that the world is currently under judgment.

Answering questions about his continuous changes in biblical interpretation, he explained that the Bible is "very complex."
"You'll find that you'll read verse after verse and wonder 'what is God talking about?'" Camping stated. "Yet this is the way we have to search out the Bible. It's very slow. It's very tedious. And we don't always hit the nail on the head the first time."

Of course, the Bible simply means what it says. Had he realized that years ago he would have stopped his spiritually symbolic nonsense and this entire fiasco never would have happened.

With that said, he refused to take responsibility for those who believed in his May 21 prediction and chose to take such drastic steps as quitting their jobs and using up their savings account to help support his doomsday ad campaign. Camping even played down the situation, saying that there likely aren't many who made such changes and noting that what happend to them "isn't nearly as grievous" as what happened during the recession.

So there's no refund. That's what you get for believing in a false prophet.

Harold Camping Speaks on Wrong Rapture Prediction - PHOTOS, Christian News

Although he gave lip service to being "wrong," Camping insisted in his public statement that his predictions have been right all along, only that his interpretation was more literal when it should have been spiritual.

I really dislike dealing with people like this. This is why "spiritual" interpretations of the Scriptures, particularly concerning end-times events, can be so incredibly destructive. The book of Revelation is a book of mostly literal plagues, and I'll show this later with Christ's discourse in Mt. 24/Lu. 21.

"On May 21, this last weekend, this is where the spiritual aspect of it really comes through. God again brought judgment on the world. We didn't see any difference but God brought Judgment Day to bear upon the whole world. The whole world is under Judgment Day and it will continue right up until Oct. 21, 2011 and by that time the whole world will be destroyed," said the Family Radio president.

During his address Monday, 89-year-old Camping strongly defended the accuracy of all his previous Judgment Day predictions.
He broke down each of his predictions, saying they were all fulfilled: May 21, 1988, judgment came upon the churches; Sept. 7, 1994, judgment continued on the churches; then on May 21, 2011, judgment came upon the entire world.
"We are not changing the dates at all. We are just looking at it a little more spiritually but it won't be spiritual on Oct. 21 because the Bible teaches the world will be destroyed altogether. But it will be very quick," said Camping.

"The Bible is a very spiritual book. There are a lot of things that are very factual, very factual, of course, but there are a lot of things that are very spiritual. How to know whether to look at it with a spiritual understanding or a factual understanding is hard to know," said Camping.

It's actually not hard to know at all. The Bible itself will tell you, within context of the passage or by cross-referencing other passages, whether or not it is symbolic or literal. For example, we can know that Rev. 12 is a symbolic representation of events, simply by cross-referencing some of the symbols with other portions of the Scripture and by the way that Rev. 12 is worded. For example, the symbol of a "woman" is used several times in the Scriptures to symbolize the church or elect (see Gen. 3:15, etc.). This symbol is repeated in Rev. 12 in obvious symbolic context. But when it comes to various plagues in the book of Revelation we can know, and know for certain, whether they are symbolic or literal. For example:

"4And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy." Rev. 16:4-6

This particular plague has to be literal because if it is symbolic then it negates the entire purpose of the plague. The point of the plague is obvious - they killed the saints/prophets so now they get blood to drink. Therefore, it has to be literal, and that is determined by the context.

Camping said Family Radio, which is listener supported, is still collecting donations and that the organization "can get way more mileage out of a dollar than you ever could for yourself."
He said Family Radio has no intention of returning the money to donors.
"No, that money is still going out. We're still in business. We still have another five months," said Camping.
"Why would we return it? It's been given to get the Gospel out. We're spending it as wisely as possible."
He stressed that he has not received any salary and that they’re not trying to garner anything for themselves. There is no greed at Family Radio, he stated.
“We're spending it as wisely as possible and maybe by Oct. 21 we'll only have $10 left.”

Oh, wonderful Harold. In other words, you're going to spend all of your followers' donations and by Oct. 21st your entire radio station will be bankrupt. Sounds like a great plan.

Moving on from Camping's response - we can know, and know for certain, that the plagues in the book of Revelation are mostly literal - i.e., when it says that the sun was given power to scorch men with fire that's what it literally means. Here's how:

"25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken." Lu. 21:25-26

This description could not be given if the Apocalypse was symbolic, but could only be given if the Apocalypse was literal (or mostly so). Here are a few Gk. words:

Perplexity, #640, aporia. Vine's notes on aporia as follows: "akin to A, No. 1, is translated "perplexity" in Luk 21:25 (lit., "at a loss for a way," a, negative, poros, "a way, resource"), of the distress of nations, finding no solution to their embarrassments; papyri illustrations are in the sense of being at one's wit's end, at a loss how to proceed, without resources."

The nations are at a loss for a way because of what's happening to the planet. They are in "distress." This can only be describing literal happenings.

Looking after, #4329, prosdokia. Vine's notes on prosdokia as follows: "a watching for, expectation" (akin to A, No. 2, which see), is used in the NT only of the "expectation" of evil, Luk 21:26, RV, "expectation," AV, "looking for," regarding impending calamities; Act 12:11, "the expectation" of the execution of Peter."

Again, these descriptions could only be given for literal events.

There are other ways we can know the plagues in the book of Revelation are mostly literal as well, but Lu. 21:25-26 will do for now.

Moving on - Camping's Oct. 21st, 2011 prediction for the end of the world absolutely cannot happen. It is absolutely impossible, and here's why:

"5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." Rev. 13:5

"7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." Rev. 13:7

We must have a 42-month reign of the antichrist. There must also be a global government with ten kings, in order to even start the book of Revelation. Hence, it is impossible that the world ends on Oct. 21st, 2011. It is my personal belief that the book of Revelation will be fulfilled several decades from now.

 

[Achilles6129]

You are certainly entitled to your opinions about things that aren't empirical: we can say what we want about things that can't be proven outside of our theological interpretations.

But the guy is nearly 90 years old. Give him a break. Wonder how rational we will be when we get to his age?

Firstly, he made a similar prediction back in 1992 for the year 1994 with similar consequences. At that time, he was about 69 years old, so the "insanity defense" doesn't work there.

Secondly, what Harold Camping does is downright destructive to people's lives. I posted several quotes of people who have lost everything because he took advantage of them. I have documented how he used volunteer workers (in other words, not paying them a cent) to ride in "judgment caravans" around warning folks of his predictions.

If Camping were such a nice, sincere fellow, he would have warned everyone beforehand that there was a possibility he may be wrong so don't bother ruining your finances because of my interpretations. And if it were me, I would have offered to reimburse people after my failed "guaranteed" prediction.

This is a man who goes around saying that the "Bible guarantees it." He's a charlatan and a fraud and deserves to be exposed as such. I don't care if he's 89 or 189.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Firstly, he made a similar prediction back in 1992 for the year 1994 with similar consequences. At that time, he was about 69 years old, so the "insanity defense" doesn't work there.

Secondly, what Harold Camping does is downright destructive to people's lives. I posted several quotes of people who have lost everything because he took advantage of them. I have documented how he used volunteer workers (in other words, not paying them a cent) to ride in "judgment caravans" around warning folks of his predictions.

If Camping were such a nice, sincere fellow, he would have warned everyone beforehand that there was a possibility he may be wrong so don't bother ruining your finances because of my interpretations. And if it were me, I would have offered to reimburse people after my failed "guaranteed" prediction.

This is a man who goes around saying that the "Bible guarantees it." He's a charlatan and a fraud and deserves to be exposed as such. I don't care if he's 89 or 189.

People get deceived because they don't want to take the time to do their own homework. Caveat emptor.

 

[heymikey80]

SDA's didn't exist. Take your pick of a protestant denomination at the time and they were part of the disappointment

Agreed that it took another prophet to pull seventh-day observance into such prominence, disagreed that many protestant denominations were heavily involved.

The Great Disappointment was a major event in the history of the Millerite movement, a 19th century American Christian sect that formed out of the Second Great Awakening. William Miller, a Baptist preacher, proposed based on his interpretations of the prophecies in the book of Daniel (Chapters 8 and 9, especially Dan. 8:14 "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed"), that Jesus Christ would return to the earth during the year 1844. A more specific date, that of October 22, 1844, was preached by Samuel S. Snow. Thousands of followers, some of whom had given away all of their possessions, waited expectantly. When Jesus did not appear, October 22, 1844 became known as the Great Disappointment. -- Wikipedia

 

[Dorothea]

This man needs prayer.

Indeed. May God show him the truth and lead him to repentance.