Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[visionary]

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” -Matthew 28:19-20

Judaism organizes the Torah commandments given to the Jews at Sinai into 613 commandments, which is the organization compiled by 12th century Jewish sage Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon or Rambam. The problem with the 613 commandments is that a large block of said-commandments can’t be obeyed by Jews today because there is no Temple in Jerusalem, no Levitical priesthood, and no Sanhedrin court system. As it turns out, there is an organization of commandments that has been chronicled by Chofetz Chaim in his book The Concise Book of Mitzvoth that provides a list that can be obeyed today…a total of 299 commandments, including many that can only be obeyed in the Land of Israel.

Which Torah commandments did Yeshua use as the basis of his lessons?? If Yeshua wanted his Jewish disciples to teach the Gentile disciples what he taught during his earthly ministry, this method should give us, if not an absolute answer, a definite direction regarding the intent of the Messiah for the Gentiles as far as obligation to Torah goes. So here is a list ...

Discipleship and the Torah Class Conclusion of Conclusions Page

 

[visionary]

So what commandments can we find in NT the Yeshua actually want gentiles to follow?

Discipleship and the Torah Class: What Were the Source Commandments from Which Jesus Taught?

 

[11822]

So what commandments can we find in NT the Yeshua actually want gentiles to follow?

Discipleship and the Torah Class: What Were the Source Commandments from Which Jesus Taught?

The law helps define Love and Holiness. The law is Good we're not, throwing out the law doesn't make us good

 

[visionary]

The law helps define Love and Holiness. The law is Good we're not, throwing out the law doesn't make us good

without the law, we would not know what the Lord considers righteous living, without the Holy Spirit we would not know how to keep it or live it as He requires..

 

[Studious One]

The 613 were given to Israel... not Gentiles! So, no, I do not believe that Christians should be held to those commandments.

As a matter of fact, Peter and James declared that Gentile Believers were not to be bound to the Mosaic Law (Acts 15)

Paul, though he was considered blameless concerning the Law, did not keep all 613 of the laws. How do I know that? Easy...

Paul was not a female. He was not bound to laws that pertained to women; laws such as offering two turtledoves for a sin offering shortly after giving birth., etc..

Here's a shocker...

Not even Jesus, the perfect Son of God, kept all 613 laws. First, as a male, He would not have had to keep those laws that pertained to women only. Second, since He did not own property, (the Son of man hath not where to lie His head) He was not bound to the tithing law contained within the 613 laws. He did not own a house, so He was not bound to the law that required to obey the law that said one must have a battlement on one's roof.

There are many, many other laws that Jesus was not bound to.

As to Christians today, we are not bound to the law, but unto Christ. Even Believing Jews are not bound to the law. The law was their schoolmaster to bring them to Christ. Once they came to faith in Christ, the law was no longer their schoolmaster.

 

[11822]

without the law, we would not know what the Lord considers righteous living, without the Holy Spirit we would not know how to keep it or live it as He requires..

I agree, the bible says as much.

 

[11822]

The 613 were given to Israel... not Gentiles! So, no, I do not believe that Christians should be held to those commandments.

As a matter of fact, Peter and James declared that Gentile Believers were not to be bound to the Mosaic Law (Acts 15)

Paul, though he was considered blameless concerning the Law, did not keep all 613 of the laws. How do I know that? Easy...

Paul was not a female. He was not bound to laws that pertained to women; laws such as offering two turtledoves for a sin offering shortly after giving birth., etc..

Here's a shocker...

Not even Jesus, the perfect Son of God, kept all 613 laws. First, as a male, He would not have had to keep those laws that pertained to women only. Second, since He did not own property, (the Son of man hath not where to lie His head) He was not bound to the tithing law contained within the 613 laws. He did not own a house, so He was not bound to the law that required to obey the law that said one must have a battlement on one's roof.

There are many, many other laws that Jesus was not bound to.

As to Christians today, we are not bound to the law, but unto Christ. Even Believing Jews are not bound to the law. The law was their schoolmaster to bring them to Christ. Once they came to faith in Christ, the law was no longer their schoolmaster.

The schoolmaster is used in describing salvation by faith but i dont think Paul meant it for all law. I think that verse gets taken out of context. Jesus and the apostles teach from the 10 Cs, if we are bound to them its for the sake of love and holiness, not righteousness. Isn't it really just ceremonial temple laws and sin offering laws which are not needed any any longer and the death penalty that ceased in the new covenant? Doesn't the rest of the laws represent holiness and love and therefor carried over into the NC? Doesn't Jesus and the apostles quote the 10 Cs when teaching love? And also repeat the adultery, fornication, theft and coveting laws over and over in the new testament? Doesn't some of the law still apply in the NC but now under grace?

 

[from scratch]

The 613 were given to Israel... not Gentiles! So, no, I do not believe that Christians should be held to those commandments.

As a matter of fact, Peter and James declared that Gentile Believers were not to be bound to the Mosaic Law (Acts 15)

Paul, though he was considered blameless concerning the Law, did not keep all 613 of the laws. How do I know that? Easy...

Paul was not a female. He was not bound to laws that pertained to women; laws such as offering two turtledoves for a sin offering shortly after giving birth., etc..

Here's a shocker...

Not even Jesus, the perfect Son of God, kept all 613 laws. First, as a male, He would not have had to keep those laws that pertained to women only. Second, since He did not own property, (the Son of man hath not where to lie His head) He was not bound to the tithing law contained within the 613 laws. He did not own a house, so He was not bound to the law that required to obey the law that said one must have a battlement on one's roof.

There are many, many other laws that Jesus was not bound to.

As to Christians today, we are not bound to the law, but unto Christ. Even Believing Jews are not bound to the law. The law was their schoolmaster to bring them to Christ. Once they came to faith in Christ, the law was no longer their schoolmaster.

Excellent points. Jesus did say concerning Me in LK 24:44. That verse is a sticking point in the jot and tittle argument steming from Mat 5:17-18.

 

[from scratch]

The schoolmaster is used in describing salvation by faith but i dont think Paul meant it for all law. I think that verse gets taken out of context. Jesus and the apostles teach from the 10 Cs, if we are bound to them its for the sake of love and holiness, not righteousness. Isn't it really just ceremonial temple laws and sin offering laws which are not needed any any longer and the death penalty that ceased in the new covenant? Doesn't the rest of the laws represent holiness and love and therefor carried over into the NC? Doesn't Jesus and the apostles quote the 10 Cs when teaching love? And also repeat the adultery, fornication, theft and coveting laws over and over in the new testament? Doesn't some of the law still apply in the NC but now under grace?

There is a big difference in teaching from something and teaching obligation to something.

 

[from scratch]

It's your choice to go against God's Word. I know he told Jews to avoid pigs because he loved them. Pigs are some of the most disgusting and unclean animals there are. They wade in mud. They also wade in their own filth. It's really not healthy to eat them. Supposedly, they also invite other pigs to have sex with their mate. I haven't checked that out.

Not much different than a lot of mankind. Pigs and humans are the only ones that sunburn too. We use oil and pigs use mud so what. Pigs also don'tpoop in their feed or water supply. Chcikens do and are kosher meat. Chickens also eat other each other. Go figure.

 

[from scratch]

It's your choice to go against God's Word. I know he told Jews to avoid pigs because he loved them. Pigs are some of the most disgusting and unclean animals there are. They wade in mud. They also wade in their own filth. It's really not healthy to eat them. Supposedly, they also invite other pigs to have sex with their mate. I haven't checked that out.

Not much different than a lot of mankind. Pigs and humans are the only ones that sunburn too. We use oil and pigs use mud so what. Pigs also don'tpoop in their feed or water supply. Chcikens do and are kosher meat. Chickens also eat eather each other. Go figure.

 

[from scratch]

The schoolmaster is used in describing salvation by faith but i dont think Paul meant it for all law. I think that verse gets taken out of context. Jesus and the apostles teach from the 10 Cs, if we are bound to them its for the sake of love and holiness, not righteousness. Isn't it really just ceremonial temple laws and sin offering laws which are not needed any any longer and the death penalty that ceased in the new covenant? Doesn't the rest of the laws represent holiness and love and therefor carried over into the NC? Doesn't Jesus and the apostles quote the 10 Cs when teaching love? And also repeat the adultery, fornication, theft and coveting laws over and over in the new testament? Doesn't some of the law still apply in the NC but now under grace?

No none of the OC applies in the NC. The NC isn't a refurbished OC. Jer 31:31-34.

 

[11822]

No none of the OC applies in the NC. The NC isn't a refurbished OC. Jer 31:31-34.

Sure brother if you say so. Jesus disagrees though.

 

[Strong in Him]

True but Paul did lay down some law for the gentile Church.

And abstaining from pork was not one of them.

Also, people change, grow and develop in their understanding. In Acts 15, Paul was at the council of Jerusalem which wrote a letter telling gentiles to abstain from food offered to idols. He even took this letter to the churches. In 1 Cor 8 he says that food offered to an idole means nothing and people may eat it.

 

[JohnRabbit]

And abstaining from pork was not one of them.

Also, people change, grow and develop in their understanding. In Acts 15, Paul was at the council of Jerusalem which wrote a letter telling gentiles to abstain from food offered to idols. He even took this letter to the churches. In 1 Cor 8 he says that food offered to an idole means nothing and people may eat it.

people grow so much in understanding, that they can take acts 15 and show how God's ten commandments are done away.

amazing, isn't it?

 

[11822]

There is a big difference in teaching from something and teaching obligation to something.

Are we not obligated to be holy and to love? Will we throw that out also? The law doesn't save us but to reject it totally is to reject laws that guide us in holiness and love.

 

[11822]

people grow so much in understanding, that they can take acts 15 and show how God's ten commandments are done away.

amazing, isn't it?

Grace doesn't throw out the law, only the condemnation of it. Big difference. If love is defined as "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", this broad definition covers many laws which are acts that fulfill the law of love. Should we not learn and obey them for the sake of love? Isn't this what Paul says?Love thy neighbor is not all there is, its merely the motivation behind our Christian Law.



Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Ro 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[11822]

No none of the OC applies in the NC. The NC isn't a refurbished OC. Jer 31:31-34.

Looks like you made an error scratch, it seems some law is carried over into the NC




Ro 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Ro 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

 

[Strong in Him]

people grow so much in understanding, that they can take acts 15 and show how God's ten commandments are done away.

amazing, isn't it?

If this is addressed to me, I don't understand what you're getting at. The 10 commandments say nothing about not eating pork; a fact that has been commented on before.
And why do you think I would want to do away with them?

 

[JohnRabbit]

If this is addressed to me, I don't understand what you're getting at. The 10 commandments say nothing about not eating pork; a fact that has been commented on before.
And why do you think I would want to do away with them?

keep your shirt on. it was simply a general statement, playing off of what you wrote!