Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[from scratch]

Ah but i do except it and trust the leading of the Holy Spirit. Only in your mind Do i not. Good thing for me you're not my Judge. Following a list helps me Mortify the deeds of the Body. We are commanded to follow the Words of Jesus. How can i if i don't read them? You call it a list, i call it the sound doctrine of Jesus Christ. So you see i have faith in His words, not a list.

Who is judging? Did I condemn anyone? If you need a list to follow does that mean everyone needs a list to follow? Is everybody, you or even lik you? Why the effort to manipulate others? Is it because of a selfish need to control and or be validated? Is it a need to prove one is righteous? I don't need your validation or blessings. I only need God's. Who can keep God's blessings away from someone by any means? No one! If someone doesn't want the liberty that Jesus gives that isn't my problem nor is it anyone eslse business to take my or anyones elses liberty in Christ Jesus. If you want to be weak that is your business and not mine. When someone demands that I be weak and drink only mothers milk that is my business.

You can tesitfy and that is fine. But to demand that I become you to be saved isn't cool. That is exactly what the judaizers tried to do. They were called subverts by the apostles. To subvert is to destroy and that is exactly what is going here. Some say no. But what does the Scripture plainly say? Who is right Scripture of the destroyer(s)?

If I can't make heaven my home because I don't keep the sabbath we'll see each other in hell because you don't keep the sabbath as outlined in the 10 Cs either. If you wish to challenge me on the issue of the sabbath I'll be most delighted to discuss it. I make no accusation. I do love the facts. So since there is no hope I have no clue what yer beef is. I hear missery loves company. There is no fear in truth.

If my view point offends you, you're in the wrong place. You chose to be here for what to be offended. There are fellowship forums for most general groups. If you wish to not be offended that is where you should be posting.

It is clear to me your purpose is clandistine evangelism and not discussion or debate.

 

[from scratch]

The opposite is actually true.

When sin is defined as anything not of faith it liberates the individual from focusing on external observances as being what God is concerned with. God is more concerned with issues of the heart.

 

[ghendricks63]

What about non believers who read this stuff, all they see is disagreement. And also, aren't we supposed to remove any stumbling blocks?

Disagreement in love should be a principle a non-believer would see as good not bad. I am not sure any non-believer expects perfect unity of understanding in the Christian faith. But then this would be why Jesus said it was by our love that we would be known...not by our logic.

 

[11822]

Will you please explain how the Holy Spirit leads one to sin. The real issue here is sin and not a list of rules. Is there no faith that the Holy Spirit won't lead one to sin? Following the Holy Spirit is like putting an airplane on auto pilot. It flies itself and the manual pilot is pretty much along for the ride.

The old covenant is completely dead. I've no clue what is so hard to understand about that. Keeping the rule list edifies no one either. It only promotes bondage as Jesus indicated and the Apostles did also in Acts 15. Jeremiah said God would issue a new covenant not refurbish the old one. Jesus testified to this fact as accomplished. Hebrews says it is better because of beter promises. Why people love death and not life is beyond me.

This list business amounts to labeling someone. I just think the list is helpful because Paul says the last 5 or 6 Cs are acts of love and clearly the first 3 are. Our Salvation is not in jeopardy.

 

[ghendricks63]

However...disagreement in anger or animosity seems to be all to common. These types of disagreement do harm our witness, which is what I think 11822's point was.

 

[from scratch]

What about non believers who read this stuff, all they see is disagreement. And also, aren't we supposed to remove any stumbling blocks?

So is the demand that we agree with you for the sake of unbelievers? Why doesn't it go the other way. I guess you think I trying to tear you down. I think I'm trying to get you to see the NC.

Now on another thread the discussion has been about Romans 2. In Romans 2 Paul says the name of God is blasphemed by the Jews for what reason? I think off hand that it is because they say and don't do. Even the wicked testifiy against them. We see the same friction between the workers and the management in general. Isn't that exactly what the pro law people are doing here. They say keep the law and willingly and intentionally violate it every week. What is the difference? I don't see one.

 

[11822]

Who is judging? Did I condemn anyone? If you need a list to follow does that mean everyone needs a list to follow? Is everybody, you or even lik you? Why the effort to manipulate others? Is it because of a selfish need to control and or be validated? Is it a need to prove one is righteous? I don't need your validation or blessings. I only need God's. Who can keep God's blessings away from someone by any means? No one! If someone doesn't want the liberty that Jesus gives that isn't my problem nor is it anyone eslse business to take my or anyones elses liberty in Christ Jesus. If you want to be weak that is your business and not mine. When someone demands that I be weak and drink only mothers milk that is my business.

You can tesitfy and that is fine. But to demand that I become you to be saved isn't cool. That is exactly what the judaizers tried to do. They were called subverts by the apostles. To subvert is to destroy and that is exactly what is going here. Some say no. But what does the Scripture plainly say? Who is right Scripture of the destroyer(s)?

If I can't make heaven my home because I don't keep the sabbath we'll see each other in hell because you don't keep the sabbath as outlined in the 10 Cs either. If you wish to challenge me on the issue of the sabbath I'll be most delighted to discuss it. I make no accusation. I do love the facts. So since there is no hope I have no clue what yer beef is. I hear missery loves company. There is no fear in truth.

If my view point offends you, you're in the wrong place. You chose to be here for what to be offended. There are fellowship forums for most general groups. If you wish to not be offended that is where you should be posting.

It is clear to me your purpose is clandistine evangelism and not discussion or debate.

No you did not. But we're not edifying or testifying by disagreeing. Its Clandestine debate concerning Paul's evangelism and more edification through the evangelism of Christ. More Jesus less stumbling blocks,

 

[from scratch]

No you did not. But we're not edifying or testifying by disagreeing. Its Clandestine debate concerning Paul's evangelism and more edification through the evangelism of Christ. More Jesus less stumbling blocks,

So what is the solution?

 

[11822]

So what is the solution?

Romans 14 might contain the solution.

 

[BloodyRachel]

Of course. God gave them. God tells us what not to eat for our own good. Anybody who's studied the Middle Ages knows what happened. They threw away the Law of Moses and they got disease. They got filfth in the streets. They got the black Plague.

 

[ghendricks63]

Of course. God gave them. God tells us what not to eat for our own good. Anybody who's studied the Middle Ages knows what happened. They threw away the Law of Moses and they got disease. They got filfth in the streets. They got the black Plague.

I think I am going to go home and have a big juicy ham steak. I'll be sure to thank God for the freedom to do so too!!

 

[11822]

Ro 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Ro 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Ro 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Ro 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Ro 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

 

[BloodyRachel]

I think I am going to go home and have a big juicy ham steak. I'll be sure to thank God for the freedom to do so too!!

It's your choice to go against God's Word. I know he told Jews to avoid pigs because he loved them. Pigs are some of the most disgusting and unclean animals there are. They wade in mud. They also wade in their own filth. It's really not healthy to eat them. Supposedly, they also invite other pigs to have sex with their mate. I haven't checked that out.

 

[ghendricks63]

It's your choice to go against God's Word. I know he told Jews to avoid pigs because he loved them. Pigs are some of the most disgusting and unclean animals there are. They wade in mud. They also wade in their own filth. It's really not healthy to eat them. Supposedly, they also invite other pigs to have sex with their mate. I haven't checked that out.

I'm sorry...but this post just really strikes me as funny.

You have read the New Testament right?

 

[BloodyRachel]

I'm sorry...but this post just really strikes me as funny.

You have read the New Testament right?

Yes. My Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, instructed me to follow the Law.

Matthew 5:17-18
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Not one jot or tittle passes away.

 

[Strong in Him]

Yes. My Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, instructed me to follow the Law.

Matthew 5:17-18
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Not one jot or tittle passes away.

When Jesus said that, he was talking to JEWS. He said he had come to fulfil their law, and he did - for those who would accept that he was the Jewish Messiah.
For those who don't, their law still remains - with all it's restrictions and things you have to do to try to be holy. The law has not passed away; it's just not for us.

But for Gentiles, who were never given the law and included as God's people - they were unclean pagans - Jesus is the One who saves us, makes us holy and is the Way to the Father. Paul, a former Pharisee who was so zealous for the law he persecuted the church, taught that the law could not save, that anyone who let themselves be circumcised, (people were teaching that this was necessary before a person could accept Christ,) not only had to then obey the whole law, but was then saying that Christ died for nothing.

There is nowhere in the NT that says that Gentiles have to keep the Jewish law, either before, or after, salvation.

 

[Strong in Him]

It's your choice to go against God's Word. I know he told Jews to avoid pigs because he loved them. Pigs are some of the most disgusting and unclean animals there are. They wade in mud. They also wade in their own filth. It's really not healthy to eat them. Supposedly, they also invite other pigs to have sex with their mate. I haven't checked that out.

There is a BIG difference between avoiding pork because you believe it has health benefits, and avoiding it because you believe it is a command from God, and somehow affects either our salvation, or our Christian walk.

Personally, I follow Jesus and choose to believe his words when he said that nothing which goes in through the mouth can make a person unclean. (Mark 7:15-19).

 

[11822]

When Jesus said that, he was talking to JEWS. He said he had come to fulfil their law, and he did - for those who would accept that he was the Jewish Messiah.
For those who don't, their law still remains - with all it's restrictions and things you have to do to try to be holy. The law has not passed away; it's just not for us.

But for Gentiles, who were never given the law and included as God's people - they were unclean pagans - Jesus is the One who saves us, makes us holy and is the Way to the Father. Paul, a former Pharisee who was so zealous for the law he persecuted the church, taught that the law could not save, that anyone who let themselves be circumcised, (people were teaching that this was necessary before a person could accept Christ,) not only had to then obey the whole law, but was then saying that Christ died for nothing.

There is nowhere in the NT that says that Gentiles have to keep the Jewish law, either before, or after, salvation.

True but Paul did lay down some law for the gentile Church.

 

[11822]

There is a BIG difference between avoiding pork because you believe it has health benefits, and avoiding it because you believe it is a command from God, and somehow affects either our salvation, or our Christian walk.

Personally, I follow Jesus and choose to believe his words when he said that nothing which goes in through the mouth can make a person unclean. (Mark 7:15-19).

I thought BM was stating that God gave those laws to the Jews because it was healthy for them and its not bad to obey them today for that reason. The true reason God gave them that is. Food sacrificed to idols is another matter and still forbidden, the defilement isn't in the body for eating the food but of the conscience and because it takes part with the devil, so says Paul anyway.

 

[visionary]

Matt 23: 23 “Woe to you, ......, hypocrites! Because you tithe the mint and the anise and the cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the Torah: the right-ruling and the compassion and the belief. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the others.