Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (2)

[Yab Yum]

The law itself is a minister of death.

Unless Christ brings to it the offering of His perfect obedience. After which grace is given to us also to respond to and obey God.

 

[11822]

The law itself is a minister of death. It does not bring life to one single soul. It was never meant to bring life.

Thou shall not kill brings life not death but your point is valid. The Law brings death so that we may be born again and raised to life in Christ. Without the law their is no need for Christ. Paul said the law is not sin, He said the law is Good and Holy. He said that we don't sin that grace may abound. Paul said that we don't void the law by faith, yes we establish the law.

 

[from scratch]

Thank you. I agree that those who obey the tenants of the 10 commandments are righteous.

Then isn't obedience to any law being justified?

 

[from scratch]

You got the invitation. Don't misplace it as we have the commandments.

The point is remembering something that has yet happened.

 

[from scratch]

To All
Rom 2
WE keep speaking of faith and the Holy Spirit and excluding the law doing. What refer to as works and legalism.
What shall we be judged by? Faith?
5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11For there is no respect of persons with God.

We will be judge by our act, deeds, what we have done, if you want to call it works so be it. Jew and Gentle.

Only if your name isn't written in the bok of life. John quotes Jesus saying the Christian passes from death to life and isn't judged to find out if they pass into eternal life.This wasn't intended as a quote. The verse is John 5:24.

12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Just because we claim that there is no law does not place us beyond it's condemnation even as gentles.

Read the verse again several times and even out loud, please.

13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Doer of law? We don't even want to hear so what will become of us?

Is this part time doers or full time doers? The only full time dooer that I know of is Jesus. The above statement IMO indicates that we don't really need a redeemer because we can atain perfection according to the law. The sad needs is we already failed and can never pass muster.

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Seems like Jeremiah 31:31-34 is fulfilled here and it includes Gentiles.

Here again we have confirmation from the word of God that the 10 commandments is very much our guild and rule of conduct as christians. The question is will we accept.
There is more but we can digest this for now.

 

[11822]

I think people over complicate the bible so they can have rules so they feel comfortable instead of relying on God (much like in the old testament in Moses time and in the time of the Pharisees). It's natural for people to want rules (and even in child rearing we're taught children thrive under rules and boundaries). I honestly think it's a throw back to flesh. Even in the garden it was simple and we went and complicated it. I think it's in our nature to overdo everything. **just a commentary on my thoughts this subject and discussion has brought up

It could also be said that some over complicate the bible so that they can justify lawlessness by way of Grace, and so they don't need to rely on God. Its clear that no one is justified by the law, but Grace is not a license to disobey the law. God teaches us to obey the laws of our Government as long as they don't conflict with His law. Why would God teach this if the law was void? Lets use common sense here. Jesus taught about adultery, He didn't void the law of adultery, he preached it. But He also preached salvation, forgiveness of sins.


Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[11822]

Then isn't obedience to any law being justified?

So if i love my neighbor and obey the commandment to not kill him, this means i'm being justified by the law instead of Grace? Should i kill him so that Grace may abound? No it means i show my faith through a work of the law, not to be Justified by it, but so that i will obey the laws which say love God and neighbor. I show my love by a work of the law. It means that i obey the law and dont kill my neighbor, not because i lack faith in Jesus but because i have faith in him. It means i establish the law in my heart and not kill my neighbor.

 

[IreneAdler]

It could also be said that some over complicate the bible so that they can justify lawlessness by way of Grace, and so they don't need to rely on God. Its clear that no one is justified by the law, but Grace is not a license to disobey the law. God teaches us to obey the laws of our Government as long as they don't conflict with His law. Why would God teach this if the law was void? Lets use common sense here. Jesus taught about adultery, He didn't void the law of adultery, he preached it. But He also preached salvation, forgiveness of sins.


Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

now you're just going on a tangent of your own unrelated to my post just to make yourself feel justified

 

[11822]

now you're just going on a tangent of your own unrelated to my post just to make yourself feel justified

Like yours, my tangent is true and its also related to your post. Only faith in Christ makes us righteous.

 

[IreneAdler]

the only way you tried to relate it was by a minimal section of the first sentence, which twisted my thoughts to the exact opposite. though I agree on the righteousness comment

 

[11822]

the only way you tried to relate it was by a minimal section of the first sentence, which twisted my thoughts to the exact opposite. though I agree on the righteousness comment

We both spoke the truth.

 

[IreneAdler]

not really, people just DISREGARD for the latter - hehehe

 

[MamaZ]

Thou shall not kill brings life not death but your point is valid. The Law brings death so that we may be born again and raised to life in Christ. Without the law their is no need for Christ. Paul said the law is not sin, He said the law is Good and Holy. He said that we don't sin that grace may abound. Paul said that we don't void the law by faith, yes we establish the law.

And His law is Love. It isn't thou shall nots written in stone.

 

[Yab Yum]

And His law is Love. It isn't thou shall nots written in stone.

I love x therefore I shalt not murder x, etc. It isn't contradictory.

 

[11822]

And His law is Love. It isn't thou shall nots written in stone.

There's at least 9 thou shall and shall not's that are written on my heart although they were on stone at one time in the Old covenant.

 

[from scratch]

And His law is Love. It isn't thou shall nots written in stone.

 

[from scratch]

There's at least 9 thou shall and shall not's that are written on my heart although they were on stone at one time in the Old covenant.

If they're the same thing you're obligated to the other one too. The whole law, not part.

 

[from scratch]

So if i love my neighbor and obey the commandment to not kill him, this means i'm being justified by the law instead of Grace? Should i kill him so that Grace may abound? No it means i show my faith through a work of the law, not to be Justified by it, but so that i will obey the laws which say love God and neighbor. I show my love by a work of the law. It means that i obey the law and dont kill my neighbor, not because i lack faith in Jesus but because i have faith in him. It means i establish the law in my heart and not kill my neighbor.

Incidence isn't obedience. I don't think you're going to get me to say other wise. You're trying very hard to get me to say I obey the law when I say I'm led by the Spirit. No sale. Gal 5:18 - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 

[Elder 111]

I am not justified by doing the law.

None of us are.
It is the standard on which we are judge and the path the the Holy Spirit leads.

 

[Elder 111]

Why did God make the Israelites to be his chosen people?

Some one had to do the Job and Abraham was a faithful servant. Just like you are called to do your Job if you will be faithful.