Jesus said that He did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it, that doesn't sound like Jesus voided the law. Where did Jesus make His fathers 10 commandments void?
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Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments?
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MamaZ
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He completed the law. Now we have our being not in the law but in Christ and Christ in us.
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Paul was saying the Galatians were foolish for thinking the law could bring salvation, he didn't say they were foolish for following the 10 Cs. Paul was against the laws of circumcision and eating certain foods and observing Jewish days, but Paul never spoke against the 10 Cs did he?
Where did Paul or Jesus make void the laws of the 10Cs?
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He FULFILLED the law.
He did not do away with it.
HE COMPLETED ITS REQUIREMENTS.
If we used Gods name in vein or put other Gods before Him, committed adultery, murder or theft would we need to repent to God? If so, wouldn't that mean we disobeyed Gods commandment and thats why we needed to repent? If we break a law, are we not required to ask forgiveness?
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- Mar 12, 2010
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So why was it created for man? Mark 2:27 The sabbath was made for man.
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Because the Sabbath was intended to be a perpetual state....
...It was NOT intended to cease after being in operation for 24hrs.
...Man was meant to live in this "Rest" permanently.
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from scratch
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And what happens to a fulfilled contract?
Where did Jesus command them kept? The position is yours to prove. The Scripture states that no one has ever accomplished this task except God, Himself (Jesus).
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from scratch
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Verse 3 - Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? This makes it very clear that salvation isn't maintained by the law.
The burden is yours to provide proof that either commanded the keeping of the 10 Cs. I can find no proof of such. I've already established that Jesus don't void the law with Jer 31:31-34. God the Father did. Jesus verified that the NC is the current covenant in Mat 28:28, MK 14:24 and LK 22:20.
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- Mar 12, 2010
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I never made a statement to that affect and do not believe that. Why is it that every time the 10 commandments or law is mentioned you get this tangent? Law and grace. Not law and no grace or grace and no law. Salvation is a gift received by faith. Law is kept by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Blamelessly by who's standard? Not by God's standard then would he not had found fault with them.
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Elder we have been through that discussion more than once. Why do you think I've changed my position? This is a common SDA proof text taken out of context. My question assuming that were true is why did God wait 4-5,000 years to make such a statement? Got some proof that the sabbath was made for all men everywhere?
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If i Kill, or commit adultery, put another God ahead of Him or used His name in vein would i need to ask God to forgive me? Yes or no answer please. Thank you.
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MamaZ
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If convicted of your sin most definitally. Even if you get angry at someone one needs to ask forgiveness. If you do anything without faith you need to ask forgiveness. Remember we are to love. Love is Gentle Love is Kind. Love seeketh not its own. Love rejoices in truth. Love does not take into an account a wrong done.. We are commanded to love. Love would never harm anyone one else out of selfish ambitions. Adultry is selfish. One wanting their own way. Murder is too. This is why we are to put off the flesh and walk in the Spirit.
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Good answer. How do we put off the flesh and walk in the Spirit?
Isn't living by the 10 cs part of walking in the Spirit as long as its accompanied by Grace and love that does not Judge others by the 10 Cs?
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You know its funny how i see things concerning the 10 Cs. I want to believe that Paul meant that i don't need to follow the law when He said we're free from it because it greatly simplifies things, yet something tells me that this is to easy, that God requires me to be Holy and rely on Grace when i'm not holy. I fear putting burden on people concerning the 10 Cs because i would be a hypocrite in doing so, because i'm imperfect and so far cannot obey God as i wish to. This leaves me with a sweet taste of Grace in my mouth and a desire to know nothing and say nothing. But How can i not talk about God? Jesus said we're to remain in Him. We need to talk and think about the Lord together as brothers and sisters in Christ. I can't seem to believe that the 10 Cs are made void. Who are these people that God says to: "depart from me i never knew you"? I know i don't want to be one of them and i don't want to over burden anyone with unnecessary commandments and i don't want to cause someone to stumble.
Woe is me, what should i do concerning the 10 Cs? May God Help this sinner to know.
Woe is me, what should i do concerning the 10 Cs? May God Help this sinner to know.
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Lysimachus
Vindicating our Historic Biblical Foundations
You have to admit, it is true from scratch that we have been asking for a sound response to this question (which we are weary of asking), and have yet to receive a reasonable response. In all my dealings with anti-Sabbatarians, I have not as of yet found one consistent, reasonable answer to this question.
The crowning evidence reveals that the Greek word for "man" in Mark 2:27 is alluding to Adam and his descendants.
Bob Pickle has categorically proven this in his section: The Sabbath is Jewish (scroll to #190)
And who says we need a statement? Mark 2:27 is already good enough to prove the point! And all one has to do is read the 4th commandment, and it is PLAIN as day that the Sabbath was meant to be kept since creation!
Keep in mind that the Jews had forgotten the Sabbath of their forefathers during the 430 years of slavery in Egypt. Compared to how old you are, 430 years is a long time!
When God carved the Ten Commandments for the Israelites, he was not defining "new rules" to them, He was actually gently, and gradually trying to bring them BACK into the covenant of Abraham their father!
The ratification of the Old Covenant (which was not called "old" in the Old Testament by the way) was installed not as a system of works, but originally and practically a recapturing of the Covenant made to Abraham. Hence we see why Israel stumbled, because they failed to attain righteousness of the law by faith (faith of Abraham), but rather the works of the law. It was Israel that made the covenant "old", and why it became absolutely necessary for a new one.
The fact alone that the Israelites were commanded to start keeping the Sabbath Holy in Exodus 16 is sufficient proof alone that the Sabbath was not instrinsically tied to the Old Covenant that was abolished, because the Old Covenant was not ratified until Exodus 24:8 by the blood of an Ox, and the Sabbath was binding prior to that! It proves that the Sabbath was instituted for mankind AT CREATION!
The Bible is not compelled, NOR OBLIGATED, to make plain statements, such as "Abraham kept the Sabbath" in order for this to be a naturally inferred REALITY!
Nowhere does it say "Abraham did not steal", or "Abraham did not bear false witness", or "Abraham did not take God's name in vain". NO!!!
Genesis 26:5 is clear enough!
"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." (Genesis 26:5)
When are you going to come to the realization, from scratch, that you are demanding more than is needed from the Bible to make the simple point clear that the Sabbath was made for mankind, and was instituted as a Memorial for Creation?
I say celebrating God's creation on His Sabbath day is FAR more important than celebrating the 4th of July.
But don't worry, you'll be sure to go see the Fireworks this 4th of July!
But God's Sabbath?? The memorial of the creation of the entire GLOBE?? Pssshhaaa...who cares about that.
Do you see just how sadly pathetic Sunday-keeping evangelicalism begins to sound with their reasoning?
Oh what is it going to take!!!
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Lysimachus
Vindicating our Historic Biblical Foundations
You're right, nobody is perfect, and we all come short of the Glory of God, and we desparately need His Grace, as none of us can keep the law perfectly.
However, let us be careful to never use this argument as a license to willfully sin. God will bless us with our efforts. But these efforts must be efforts that are motivated by the strength and power that comes from God's Grace to "go and sin no more" (see 2 Cor 12:9; John 8:11)
There is a vast difference between willful transgression (in other words: "since I can't keep the law perfectly anyway, I'm not even going to put forth the effort!"), vs. our shortcomings from our weaknesses and infirmaties.
With the ladder, the person realizes their helplessness, and their weakness. They see their sins. They ask for forgiveness, and pray for strength. They RECOGNIZE what sin is, and call sin by its right name!
But the willful transgressor is one who says: "There is no law, so I don't have any sin to repent of". This is willful ignorance, and willful violation. This is when God's Grace cannot cover you. It can only cover you once you realize that you are a sinner.
Sadly, people who do not recognized that all 10 commandments are binding, they do not recognize that breaking them is sin, therefore, Grace cannot cover those who reject God's 10 Commandments as binding.
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This is the law of Jesus and the prophets and it seems to not only include 9 of the 10Cs but goes even further.
[B]Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. [/B]13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you seems to be Jesus law, if we keep this law we can have no fear. I we try and fail, we can rely upon grace and try until we succeed.
But if we don't obey this law we will have much to fear because the Lord will say to us: "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity"
[B]Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. [/B]13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you seems to be Jesus law, if we keep this law we can have no fear. I we try and fail, we can rely upon grace and try until we succeed.
But if we don't obey this law we will have much to fear because the Lord will say to us: "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity"
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