I don't believe in evolution... (2)

Charlie V

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II Timothy 3:16 states, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

I believe reproof and rebuke are basically the same.

In the Biblical sense, you believe mistakenly.

The word is from the Greek elegchos which means, "evidence."

The same Greek word is found in Hebrews 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

If "rebuke" was an accurate translation of the Greek, Hebrews 11:1 would read:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the rebuke of things not seen.

And that makes no sense at all...

The word "reprove" in early English also had a completely different meaning from "rebuke," as back when the King James version was translated. It meant "to test and find good," which is pretty close to "evidence." (As in its Latin derivative, Proba.)

Always check a Concordance before trying to redefine Biblical words to say what you want them to say.

Charlie
 
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TheReasoner

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Skavau quote

What a good job you guys did for Norway. It is now one of the most secular and best places in the world to live with a bustling black metal scene.

Response

Yes, that is fine example of gratitude.

But keep in mind the Jews rejected Jesus also.

Go figure

As do you Clirus. You consistently reject His teachings and substitute your own vengeful ways.

What a good job you guys did for Norway. It is now one of the most secular and best places in the world to live with a bustling black metal scene.

Not sure I understand this comment Skavau. Yeah, we have a good black metal scene. So what? It's just music. Mighty good music, some of it. If you're pointing to people like "the count" from Burzum... Well, I hardly think that's a fair critique of a musical and cultural expression. One which is deeply misunderstood most of the time. Some are devil worshippers yes and Burzum and a few others did it's best to keep that link very strong. They did - alas - a good job. But metal \m/ is so much more than just religious affiliations. Many black-metalers are atheists, christians, pagans or other groups. Most within black metal tend to sing about anger, death and destruction. Though not in a favorable way. Mostly as a jab at society in one way or another.
Many of the serious ones dress the part, too. Black leather, steel, silver, try to get paler and paler to look dead. (Yes. I used to be a serious metalhead. And yes, I did all of that).
But to say it is anti-social is not entirely correct. It as a subculture can deliver a stinging critique of the current society and accepted social norms by observing them from a vantage point many ignore. Often focusing on the dark aspects of society and recognizing the reality of suffering and death we all face yet few dare acknowledge. For me it was a period where I got to acknowledge and express my acknowledgement of the social injustices this world faces. The death and destruction we have wrought (Directly or by proxy) on others for our own enjoyment and material gain. It was an acknowledgement of our debt in that regard, an expression of the sorrow we should all feel.
Then again, I guess I was more into the whole goth-scene by this very focus on sorrow and regret more than yet in the company of the focus on death.

Meh. Not that I expect people to understand that, but that was my d.m/goth phase.

Want to kill me for that, too Clirus? For being a Christian metalhead and goth expressing a call to repentance and grief with - as good as - every expression of my self?
 
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Archaeopteryx

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A mistake is a mistake, but a sin that is habitual is a sign of an Atheist.

So you believe that Atheists are 'habitual sinners' and that those who 'habitually violate the commandments/doctrines of the Bible' ought to face rebuke and perhaps execution by the State. It follows then, that you believe Atheists should possibly face execution because 'habitual sinners' are a 'threat to society'? Yes or no, Clirus?
 
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Skavau

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faith_guardian said:
Not sure I understand this comment Skavau. Yeah, we have a good black metal scene. So what? It's just music. Mighty good music, some of it. If you're pointing to people like "the count" from Burzum...
I'm joking. It was a tongue in cheek response to clirus. I listen to Black Metal mate. Check the origins of my avatar.
Well, I hardly think that's a fair critique of a musical and cultural expression. One which is deeply misunderstood most of the time. Some are devil worshippers yes and Burzum and a few others did it's best to keep that link very strong. They did - alas - a good job. But metal \m/ is so much more than just religious affiliations. Many black-metalers are atheists, christians, pagans or other groups. Most within black metal tend to sing about anger, death and destruction. Though not in a favorable way. Mostly as a jab at society in one way or another. Many of the serious ones dress the part, too. Black leather, steel, silver, try to get paler and paler to look dead. (Yes. I used to be a serious metalhead. And yes, I did all of that).
I am a metalhead. Primarily listen to MeloDeath, Viking, Power, Prog, Gothic and Symphonic Metal (not in any particular order).
 
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TheReasoner

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I'm joking. It was a tongue in cheek response to clirus. I listen to Black Metal mate. Check the origins of my avatar. I am a metalhead. Primarily listen to MeloDeath, Viking, Power, Prog, Gothic and Symphonic Metal (not in any particular order).

Ahh! In that case: Hill deg, frend!
kd.gif
 
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HosannaHM

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II Timothy 3:16 states, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

I believe reproof and rebuke are basically the same.

I believe most Christians do examine themselves to remove that which is objectionable to God. It is the Atheists that need to know what the Bible says.

Indeed you are correct. But are you rebuking, or condemning?

A lot of atheists do know what the Bible says, but antagonizing them is not the way to spread the Gospel.
 
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HosannaHM

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Do you worry that your interpretation of Jesus as a forgiving person could be considered by Atheists as accepting or condoning sin.

Jesus did forgive the sin of certain people, but Jesus was always clear that it was the sin of the person that was forgiven and not sin itself. Adultery is still adultery even thought Jesus forgave the adulteress. A mistake is a mistake, but a sin that is habitual is a sign of an Atheist.

I worry that too many Christians fail to reconcile the Trinity of God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit. The concept of the three levels of action is my attempt to reconcile the Trinity.

I believe the New Testament is proof of God's Love by sending His only Son to die on the cross so that a persons sin would be forgiven by God is they accept Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and commit to following the commandments/doctrines of the Bible. The New Testament defines the lifestyle and attitudes that a Christian should have relative to brothers in Christ and relative to Atheists.

II Corinthians 6:14 states, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with the unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

I believe the Old Testament defines how Christians should govern a nation in order that it remain a Christian nation that loves good and hates evil.

I may need to study love, but you need to study righteousness. My not have love may sent me to hell, your not having righteousness may sent everyone to hell. Most nations are destroyed by evil long before the physical destruction takes place.

And for you iamnot87:

John 15:10-12 states, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you"

Jesus clearly indicates that keeping the commandments is important and that Christians should love one another. In dealing with Atheists, Christians must look to the Old Testament for guidance.

Ever heard love those that persecute you? Forgive those 77 times 7? Or maybe just love your enemies in general. Let's take a little bit furthur look at John 15 as you quoted. John 15:16-17 says:

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. This is my command: Love each other."

What kind of fruit are you bearing? Is anyone adhering to your words of wrath and judgement on here? An unfruitful branch is cut off from Christ.

Righteousness?
Romans 3:10 says: "As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one

I am not righteous, but neither are you. Only through our Lord Christ does that statement even have power.

I'm aware of the Law of the Prophets. Jesus came with a covenant because we couldn't uphold it. The Old Testament is just as important as the New, but Christ had not come yet. Therefore no one had a living example of what God's biblical standard of living was until Jesus.

Jesus ate with sinners. Your condemning them. Where is the hope and joy? The peace that trancends all understanding? You don't pass these on now do you? Of course not. It would be better to throw out the "wrath of God" to scare them to the cross. God is not worshiped in fear, it's love. God is Love!

You are not God. You are not Christ. NO MAN IS RIGHTEOUS. NOT ONE. So please stop spreading this hatred, and try to understand where someone that isn't a part of your demographic comes from.
 
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TerranceL

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In the Cultural War, the Atheists would like to make people believe Christians advocate slavery and genocide, but reality shows that it is Atheists that advocate slavery and genocide.

No sweety, it was you who claimed that this nation was founded upon the ideals of the bible.

The founding of this nations is linked to slavery and genocide, therefore to YOU genocide and slavery must be christian ideals.
 
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Zongerfield

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I have been trying to think of something good to say about Clirus and her sidekick, Zongerfield
I now have one. They both make such outlandish statements that it provides for a heated thread.

We do not have to take them too seriously because they have every little or no influence. Clirus has been saying the same thing for years and has not been able to recruit 1% of the population on this forum.

There is no chance that the Non-Christians are going every agree with them. Furthermore, the vast majority of main-line Christianity will never consider their beliefs as legitimate. So they have no influence in the non-Christian population and no influence in the main line Christianity. Every religion has their extremists that twist the scriptures of their holy book and Christianity is no exception to such radical and manipulated beliefs.

We can continue to respond to Clirus because it is helps to solve temporary boredom


I teach a relatively large bible studies program at my local church. I get many non-Christian folk to attend my lectures. They find what I have to say about the Lord compelling and, in the very least, edifying.

Do not underestimate the power of scripture. Do not underestimate the power of Jesus. Do not underestimate the Lord.

I can tell you a very brief story about a Gentlemen, a former vulgarian, who had a very serious problem and who was indeed saved by my church and by the power and grace of God.

His name was Walt. Before he passed, he struggled with a very serious problem. He struggled with pederasty. He was a known and registered sex offender. He was a sinner of the most pernicious kind, but after I counseled him, and worked with him, and showed him the way of the Lord he cured himself of his affliction. It was a borderline miracle.

I can also tell you stories of drunkards and harlots who have been cured by coming to the Lord, but you probably wouldn't believe me if I told you.

The bottom line is we have influence and we have power, not because we are personally ambitious, but because we work in the name of the Lord.
 
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Nathan Poe

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I teach a relatively large bible studies program at my local church. I get many non-Christian folk to attend my lectures. They find what I have to say about the Lord compelling and, in the very least, edifying.

If you say so.

Do not underestimate the power of scripture. Do not underestimate the power of Jesus. Do not underestimate the Lord.

We'd underestimate you, but I'm not entirely sure that's possible at this point.

I can tell you a very brief story about a Gentlemen, a former vulgarian, who had a very serious problem and who was indeed saved by my church and by the power and grace of God.

That's nice.

His name was Walt. Before he passed, he struggled with a very serious problem. He struggled with pederasty. He was a known and registered sex offender. He was a sinner of the most pernicious kind, but after I counseled him, and worked with him, and showed him the way of the Lord he cured himself of his affliction. It was a borderline miracle.

And so Walt never got caught again -- good for him.

I can also tell you stories of drunkards and harlots who have been cured by coming to the Lord, but you probably wouldn't believe me if I told you.

Clearly you used better material on them than on us.

Or maybe we're just not desperate enough?

The bottom line is we have influence and we have power, not because we are personally ambitious, but because we work in the name of the Lord.

And yet your successes are anecdotes, and your failures are a matter of public record.
 
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tulc

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I teach a relatively large bible studies program at my local church. I get many non-Christian folk to attend my lectures. They find what I have to say about the Lord compelling and, in the very least, edifying.

Do not underestimate the power of scripture. Do not underestimate the power of Jesus. Do not underestimate the Lord.

I can tell you a very brief story about a Gentlemen, a former vulgarian, who had a very serious problem and who was indeed saved by my church and by the power and grace of God.

His name was Walt. Before he passed, he struggled with a very serious problem. He struggled with pederasty. He was a known and registered sex offender. He was a sinner of the most pernicious kind, but after I counseled him, and worked with him, and showed him the way of the Lord he cured himself of his affliction. It was a borderline miracle.

I can also tell you stories of drunkards and harlots who have been cured by coming to the Lord, but you probably wouldn't believe me if I told you.

The bottom line is we have influence and we have power, not because we are personally ambitious, but because we work in the name of the Lord.

Wow...when did we get transported back to Spurgeon's New Park Street Church? :confused:
tulc(is a fan of Spurgeon, though people find that surprising) :sorry:
 
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sdmsanjose

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REPLY by ZONDERFIELD
Do not underestimate the power of scripture. Do not underestimate the power of Jesus. Do not underestimate the Lord.

I do not underestimate the scriptures or Jesus. Where did you get that idea? Clirus is the one that spouts off statements that she claims are from scripture but they are not and you agree with her. Why have you not rebuked her for her anti-scripture statements like the one below?

Quotes by Clirus
I believe the failure of a man to provide for his family should require execution of the man.

Enact Absolute Paternity legislation that would execute the father of a child that fails to make child care payments for an illegitimate child.


Zondrfield, you agree with Clirus and defend her even though she manipulates scripture to fit her political agenda. Have you not read Clirus’ statemnts for last several years? She has appointed herself as the one to judge and condem people that she determines are evil. Oh she tries to cover it by saying that she is proclaiming God’s righteousness. Do you really think that God appointed Clirus to pronounce condemnation to people that she does not agree with?

If you continue to agree with Clirus and follow her path you will lose any influence you may have.

You stated that a person in your church had a “very serious problem” but was "saved by the power and GRACE of God." I have seen many people changed by the GRACE of God but none by telling them they are evil and should be killed by the authorities.

If you have witnessed the power and GRACE of God changing people why do you agree with Clirus advocating killing people that the scriptures do not support?

 
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TheReasoner

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I teach a relatively large bible studies program at my local church. I get many non-Christian folk to attend my lectures. They find what I have to say about the Lord compelling and, in the very least, edifying.

I do hope you're not telling them they should be executed for not being Christian?

Do not underestimate the power of scripture. Do not underestimate the power of Jesus. Do not underestimate the Lord.
I don't think any believers here who criticize Clirus have done so. In fact we've pointed out where she stands in heresy.

I can tell you a very brief story about a Gentlemen, a former vulgarian, who had a very serious problem and who was indeed saved by my church and by the power and grace of God.
Ohnonono! Not by your church at all. Only Jesus has the power to save. Your church has no such power. He was saved by Jesus and by HIS power, your church was Christ's tool but it in itself cannot save anyone.

His name was Walt. Before he passed, he struggled with a very serious problem. He struggled with pederasty. He was a known and registered sex offender. He was a sinner of the most pernicious kind, but after I counseled him, and worked with him, and showed him the way of the Lord he cured himself of his affliction. It was a borderline miracle.

And how is this beneficial to Clirus' position who wants to see such people killed, not helped? If Clirus had her way your story would have been "There was this guy called Walt. He committed the sin of pederasty and for that he was publicly executed" - no mercy, no hope.

I can also tell you stories of drunkards and harlots who have been cured by coming to the Lord, but you probably wouldn't believe me if I told you.
Z, why wouldn't we? I've seen similar things happen.
The bottom line is we have influence and we have power, not because we are personally ambitious, but because we work in the name of the Lord.
Show me where the bible says the power is ours please. We only have this by the grace of God. When I have prophesied in tongues or spoken in tongues that is not strictly speaking *me* doing so. It's God wanting to use me and me allowing that to happen. I could stop speaking, I could refuse prophesying. But I could never prophesy of my own accord. To do so would not be a prophesy but something else. A lie, I suppose. God needs to be the initiating factor. We're like valves. He needs to supply us with what needs to run through us and we can allow or refuse that. But without His permission no flow will come regardless of how much we open the valve in ourselves.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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The commandment to love one another is for Christians to love fellow Christians. The only love to be shown to nonbelievers is to offer them salvation.

Why do you assume that your interpretation of Scripture is infallible? It has already been shown, on a multitude of occasions, that your concept of 'neighbour' does not resemble the concept 'neighbour' in Scripture as taught by Christ.

Also, you haven't answered my question yet:

So you believe that Atheists are 'habitual sinners' and that those who 'habitually violate the commandments/doctrines of the Bible' ought to face rebuke and perhaps execution by the State. It follows then, that you believe Atheists should possibly face execution because 'habitual sinners' are a 'threat to society'? Yes or no, Clirus?​
 
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Archaeopteryx

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I am disappointed to see you using Straw Man exaggerations also. You are well aware that I only advocate execution under Civil Law. Also, an execution is not a killing.

Execution is, by definition, an act of killing. I don't know what dictionary you're using, but it's clearly not an English one.

I Timothy 5:8 states, "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

What do you do when you read that statement? Too many Christians do nothing. At the very least a Christian should rebuke a person that fails to provide for his own, and if the person is fails to change, then execution under Civil Law is appropriate

But the Bible merely calls such a man an infidel. It doesn't actually say that the man ought to be executed. You are advocating something that is extra-Biblical.

I would suggest you are advocating doing nothing relative to what the Bible says about a man that fails to provide for is own.

But the Bible doesn't say to do anything about a man that fails to provide for his own. It merely calls such a man an infidel. It doesn't stipulate that the man ought to be executed.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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You and I do not agree on the concept of a neighbor. Your concept of neighbor considers Atheist and Christians to be equal in the sight of God.

No, my concept of neighbour adheres to what Christ taught. Your concept of neighbour, however, is demonstrably different from the one found in Scripture. You have no proof to show that your concept of neighbour is Biblical.

There are many levels of Atheism as there are many levels of Christianity.

All Christians will go to heaven, but their works will be judged.

All Atheists should be rebuked, and some that are a threat to society should be executed under Civil Law. A passive Atheist should only be rebuked.

At what point specifically should an Atheist be executed under your regime?
 
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