Bible-Creation-Evolution

[CaliforniaSun]

Eleven brothers and one sister are too much to keep up with?

I take it learning the names of the disciples would have been an act of cruelty?

But I'll bet you can type the formula for gravity or mass/energy conversion or universal entropy or angular momentum or the Lorentz contraction without looking -- can't you?

Twelve disciples? Here goes... extemporaneously... no google.

Mat, John, Peter, Benjamin, Judas, Philip, James, Simon, Thomas, Bartholomew...

How'd I do?

Yes, I do tend to remember useful eqations and formulas as opposed to 3,000 year old siblings.

 

[AV1611VET]

Twelve disciples? Here goes... extemporaneously... no google.

Mat, John, Peter, Benjamin, Judas, Philip, James, Simon, Thomas, Bartholomew...

How'd I do?

My bad -- I stand corrected --

 

[Nathan Poe]

Do you know what astrology [really] is?

In astrology, the configuration of the stars at the moment of ones' birth establishes a cause-and-effect relationship throughout their lifetime.

Which is why astrology is complete and utter bunk.

"Now you may find it inconceivable or at the very least a bit unlikely
that the relative position of the planets and the stars could have
a special deep significance or meaning that exclusively applies to only you,
but let me give you my assurance that these forecasts and predictions
are all based on solid, scientific, documented evidence, so you would have
to be some kind of moron not to realize that every single one of them is absolutely true."

-- Weird Al Yankovic, "Your Horoscope for Today."

 

[Nathan Poe]

My bad -- I stand corrected --

In all fairness, even the Gospel writers couldn't get all twelve names right -- but they do agree that there were twelve, which was the important part.

 

[AV1611VET]

Which is why astrology is complete and utter bunk.

Either that -- or it's demonic.

 

[Mr Dave]

Either that -- or it's demonic.

Nah, just a load of rubbish

To the astrology thing, I have to go with the "just for days" group, as that's what it says

I'll quote from my Bible notes (the Bible which some have told me evil as being written by those nasty atheist types )
"In a critical response to non-Israelite cultures who worshipped these heavenly bodies, the bodies are not named and are identified as mere timekeepers."

It is a general consensus across the scholarly world that this is not advocating astrology in it's true sense but saying that the sun and moon can be used for keeping time, which they do quite nicely in giving us days, months, years and if you've got a sun dial, hours as well.

I was an air cadet as a kid, and we were taught to use the sun and the stars as a compass for finding north, it's come in handy.


That said, I don't think astrology (in the true sense of the word) to be demonic, just rubbish

 

[Blayz]

That said, I don't think astrology (in the true sense of the word) to be demonic, just rubbish

Are they mutually exclusive? Surely anything that distracts one from pursing the True Faith(tm) could be a tool of Satan, even if said thing is a fabrication.

 

[Mr Dave]

Are they mutually exclusive? Surely anything that distracts one from pursing the True Faith(tm) could be a tool of Satan, even if said thing is a fabrication.

I completely see what you mean, it could.
There's something about assigning all this stuff to Satan and giving Satan all the credit, that just doesn't sit right with me. It makes much more sense, theologically and rationally to see that people go with astrology because back in the day it made sense to some and it's carried over, not that it's one of Satan's devices for turning people away from God. Does that make sense?

It's nonsense and some people accept it because that's what people do, not because they're pushed to by Satan or anything like that is kinda where I am. (No doubt there's people thinking Satan's got me thinking that so I don't think Satan's doing stuff and Satan can do more by making people think Satan isn't in fact doing anything wouldn't be the first time I've been told I'm spectacularly mislead )

Dunno though, gonna take some thought on my part I guess.

 

[AV1611VET]

That said, I don't think astrology (in the true sense of the word) to be demonic, just rubbish

Mr Dave, I don't think Tiberius was referring to the garden-variety astrology that comes on the comics page of the local newspaper.

I think he is referring to the real McCoy here.

Let me reiterate his post:

And Vet, regarding your suggestion that the greater light is Jesus and the lesser light is the church (as in Genesis 1:16), how do you explain Genesis 1:14, which clearly states that these lights are intended to divide day from night and differentiate the seasons and years (and also apparently to act as signs; a Biblical support for astrology)?

That said -- I'm talking about the real-deal astrology.

Here's a quote from, New Age Beliefs, by John Ankerberg and John Weldon, p. 75:

One astrologer emphasizes that "an astrological chart is not something to be feared". But thousands of clients of astrologers will disagree. For many people, astrology produces a fear of the future. Although the goal of astrology is allegedly to give the client "power" over the future, in practice it doesn't work this way. This is because astrology teaches people to acknowledge the impersonal whim of the power that stars and planets exert over them.

...

Astrologers complain that other astrologers who predict personal disaster, illness, or death are being insensitive or callous. But they are powerless to do anything about it because the astrologers who make such predictions are, after all, only engaging in astrology.

In contrast, Moses prayed:

Psalm 90:12 ¶ So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.

God answered that prayer, and we have the calendar today.

 

[Naraoia]

This book explains everything quite well:



The constellations, starting with Virgo (Jesus, born of a virgin) and ending with Leo (Jesus, the Lion of the tribe of Judah), paint a wonderful picture of salvation.

My favorite is Aries.

Known as a 'ram' in the corrupted Greek language, the Hebrews knew it as the Lamb.

When Jesus died on the Cross, it went dark from noon to three, and there, over the Cross, they saw Aries, the Lamb of God, slain from the foundation of the world.

Gemini is another favorite.

Known as twins in the corrupted Greek language, the Hebrews knew him as one and the same person; later revealed as Jesus Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

What's the explanation for the Crab? I can see how you can mould all these symbolic people and symbolic mammals into the story... but for the life of me I can't guess what crabs have to do with salvation.

 

[AV1611VET]

What's the explanation for the Crab? I can see how you can mould all these symbolic people and symbolic mammals into the story... but for the life of me I can't guess what crabs have to do with salvation.

To make a long story short, the Greeks recognized Cancer as a crab, and the emphasis was on its claws as grasping and holding; but the Hebrews knew Cancer as a sheepfold.

 

[Naraoia]

To make a long story short, the Greeks recognized Cancer as a crab, and the emphasis was on its claws as grasping and holding; but the Hebrews knew Cancer as a sheepfold.

Ah, OK. Interesting, considering that Cancer as a crustacean goes back to the Babylonians.

Ah well, it wouldn't be the first thing the Hebrews put their own spin on

 

[Doveaman]

I've heard TE's put it like this: when there's a conflict between our interpretation of God's Word and our observation of God's Creation, we should err on the side of Creation.

What's overlooked (or ignored) about this statement is that all observations require interpretation. We not only interpret what we observe in God's Word; we also interpret what we observe in God's creation, and in both cases our interpretation is often flawed. This is why scientific theories (supposedly based on observations in creation) are often falsified.

The advantage Bible believers have is that their interpretation of God's Word is often inspired by God's divine Spirit, and not by mere fallible human intellect.

"No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love Him" — but God has revealed it to us by His Spirit...

This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Cor 2:9-13.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ah well, it wouldn't be the first thing the Hebrews put their own spin on

Job calls the Zodiac, "Mazzaroth".

And for the record, Babylonian lore is even worse than Greek -- in my opinion.

 

[Naraoia]

This is why scientific theories (based on observations in creation) are often falsified.

So are Biblical interpretations

 

[Doveaman]

Why do you put the man made bible over the god made creation?

Were you man made, or god made?

 

[mzungu]

To make a long story short, the Greeks recognized Cancer as a crab, and the emphasis was on its claws as grasping and holding; but the Hebrews knew Cancer as a sheepfold.

Sorry AV but I feel the need to correct you on this one. The Greeks used the word Cancer ("karkinos" καρκίνο&#962 when referring to tumours especially breast cancer because they looked like or had the shape of a crab (tendrils spreading out reminded them of crab legs). The word cancer in Greek means crab. Hypocrates used this word just like many doctors used words that were descriptive of the disease. "Yellow fever", "Scarlet fever", are some examples.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sorry AV but I feel the need to correct you on this one. The Greeks used the word Cancer ("karkinos" καρκίνο&#962 when referring to tumours especially breast cancer because they looked like or had the shape of a crab (tendrils spreading out reminded them of crab legs). The word cancer in Greek means crab. Hypocrates used this word just like many doctors used words that were descriptive of the disease. "Yellow fever", "Scarlet fever", are some examples.

I'm talking about the Greeks back in BC [whatever] calling that constellation, 'Cancer the Crab'.

 

[AV1611VET]

From, God's Voice in the Stars, by Kenneth C. Fleming, p. 123:

Most planispheres show Cancer as a large crab, but this is certainly not the original symbol. It does not correspond with the ancient names of the stars, nor with the three decans with which it is associated (Ursa Minor, Ursa Major, and Argo). According to the Greek legend, Juno placed this crab among the signs as a reward for helping Hydra in a battle with Hercules in which the crab bit his foot and was then trodden on and killed.

 

[1611AV]

The advantage Bible believers have is that their interpretation of God's Word is often inspired by God's divine Spirit, and not by mere fallible human intellect.

You got that right. If only Christopher Columbus read and Believed the Bible, he would have known that the world was round way before he discovered it was.

It would have been funny if he would have read Isaiah 40:21-22 just after making "his" discovery.

Isaiah 40:21-22 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: