Do we want to 'be taken' or 'left behind'?

[yedida]

You misunderstand. A pre tribber is not looking for the antichrist, but looking for the Lord. Just like He says..........Watch for his coming.

If you need proof of a pre trib rapture all you have to do is look at all the commercials with a alien spaceships abducting someone. The world is being prepared for the disappearance of believers.

I used to be a pre-tribber waaaay back when. They believe that they will recognize the man as he begins his upward rise. They just don't believe they will be here for long afterwards.

 

[zeke37]

The trump of God is the voice of God (as previously shown)
The last trumpet is blown on the Feast of Trumpets
The seventh trumpet is blown by an angel during the Wrath of God
The trump of God sounds, the archangel shouts, and Jesus meets believers in the air, just like it says. The trump of God has to sound because He is the only one that knows the day and hour.

Pretty staight forward stuff. Just read what it says.....and peace to you.

and yet, the trumps usher in the dead...
as the dead are raised in all these scriptures...
locking these scriptures in as the same time
regardless of what the trump is called by what ever co-author

 

[cf4rc]

In my lifetime (and just before it) the antichrist has come and gone numerous times for the pre-tribber. It's been Hitler (just before my time), it's been Chairman Mao, Ghandi, Arafat (spell?), Saddam Hussein, now Obama. They always get soooo excited with each new possibility, then nothing...... They guy usually dies and they are still here. Personally, I couldn't stand the constant disappointment!!
I know I've left out a few, but my mind draws a blank!!!

Peace to you...

Hello my dear friend...

I'm gonna take the bait and see where the line pulls me...

The pre-tribbers never have believed he was ever here in the past and don't look for him to come now or anytime before they are raptured.

First sign of the biblical end times: Jews being restored to their land and becoming a nation again...May 14th, 1948... beginning of the 'generation of the fig tree'.

If looked at as possible 'antichrists' in the last century for some reason...people were very foolish to ever even consider any of these boys to be Antichrist...it was not his time yet...the bible was there for them but it was hard to see then and for most now...if they read it at all...

Gandhi???...who thought that crazy thing......

Arafat??...who? not powerful enough...small taters...
Hussein??...what?...not powerful enough...just a thug...
Mao?...powerful enough...wrong part of the world...born too
soon...
Stalin?...powerful enough...wrong part of the world...born
too soon...
Mussolini?...a puppet...no real power...born too soon...
Hitler?...powerful enough...born too soon...
All dead...as you said...

Former Presidents...dead, born too soon or out of power...

Could a certain man born in the generation of the fig tree be the right man in the right place at the right time to be the Antichrist if he...
...is given a throne...elected president of most powerful
nation in the world...
...is the most powerful man in the world...
...commands a world dominating military power...
...is an inspiring orator...mouth speaking great things...
...is loved by many world wide...even now looked upon as a
type of Messiah by some...
...comes in on a peace platform...and receives the Nobel
Peace Prize...
...is looked upon by many as the one man who can take the
lead and change the world into a better place for all...

What do ya think? is it possible?

I know this sounds basically like some of the others in their prime but know this:
THIS IS THE TIME...not just someones imagination getting them soooo excited over nothing.

Matthew 24:33-34; *So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors. *Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

peace and love...God Bless

 

[cf4rc]

Deleted everything...fonts...structure...everthing was a mess!

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

You misunderstand. A pre tribber is not looking for the antichrist, but looking for the Lord. Just like He says..........Watch for his coming.

If you need proof of a pre trib rapture all you have to do is look at all the commercials with a alien spaceships abducting someone. The world is being prepared for the disappearance of believers.

i am glad someone has finally touched on the rapture theology the way it would appear to a non believer.

Of course this is the way the enemy also COULD potentially decieve those awaiting the pretrib rapture.

That's all it would take is to kill an antichrist figure, then stage a rapture. Then as this christlike figure descends from the clouds, the people awaiting the raputre will feel they are lving in the millenial kingdom as one who is under the dominion of the believers, and might easily alter their belief system.

I have only one word of warning to those pretribbers and preterists who may be reading this......

If you have ONE scratch on your skin, it is not the Kingdom. If their is ONE bldg, ONE car left, ONE paved road, ONE JET, ONE CPU, ONE (enter anything made by man), it is NOT the Kingdom, and this christ figure is NOT Jesus, the ONLY Christ.

 

[yedida]

Peace to you...

Hello my dear friend...

I'm gonna take the bait and see where the line pulls me...

The pre-tribbers never have believed he was ever here in the past and don't look for him to come now or anytime before they are raptured.

First sign of the biblical end times: Jews being restored to their land and becoming a nation again...May 14th, 1948... beginning of the 'generation of the fig tree'.

If looked at as possible 'antichrists' in the last century for some reason...people were very foolish to ever even consider any of these boys to be Antichrist...it was not his time yet...the bible was there for them but it was hard to see then and for most now...if they read it at all...

Gandhi???...who thought that crazy thing......

Arafat??...who? not powerful enough...small taters...
Hussein??...what?...not powerful enough...just a thug...
Mao?...powerful enough...wrong part of the world...born too
soon...
Stalin?...powerful enough...wrong part of the world...born
too soon...
Mussolini?...a puppet...no real power...born too soon...
Hitler?...powerful enough...born too soon...
All dead...as you said...

Former Presidents...dead, born too soon or out of power...

Could a certain man born in the generation of the fig tree be the right man in the right place at the right time to be the Antichrist if he...
...is given a throne...elected president of most powerful
nation in the world...
...is the most powerful man in the world...
...commands a world dominating military power...
...is an inspiring orator...mouth speaking great things...
...is loved by many world wide...even now looked upon as a
type of Messiah by some...
...comes in on a peace platform...and receives the Nobel
Peace Prize...
...is looked upon by many as the one man who can take the
lead and change the world into a better place for all...

What do ya think? is it possible?

I know this sounds basically like some of the others in their prime but know this:
THIS IS THE TIME...not just someones imagination getting them soooo excited over nothing.

Matthew 24:33-34; *So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors. *Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

peace and love...God Bless

If you wish to argue with a once-upon-a-time pre-tribber, who was one for some 20years - go ahead, but it's best to speak from experience rather than observation. Observation misses alot of the understanding needed. The pretribs do believe that they will recognize the "a/c to be" as he is on his meteoric rise.
And yes, every one of those people have been viewed with suspicion and hope, and anticipation....
Think about it - pre-trib is not scriptural, so why on earth would you force them to be scriptural when it comes to the a/c when they manage to come to their beliefs despite what scripture says? If one part of a doctrine has holes in it, the rest is probably not very sound either.

 

[cf4rc]

If you wish to argue with a once-upon-a-time pre-tribber, who was one for some 20years - go ahead, but it's best to speak from experience rather than observation. Observation misses alot of the understanding needed. The pretribs do believe that they will recognize the "a/c to be" as he is on his meteoric rise.
And yes, every one of those people have been viewed with suspicion and hope, and anticipation....
Think about it - pre-trib is not scriptural, so why on earth would you force them to be scriptural when it comes to the a/c when they manage to come to their beliefs despite what scripture says? If one part of a doctrine has holes in it, the rest is probably not very sound either.

Peace to you friend mine...

I did not mean to be arguing with you...per se...I think you have misunderstood what I was getting at...I do not believe what pre-tribbers believe at all...so I am surely not forcing their belief that defies all scripture to be scriptural in any way...the whole dictrine is one big hole in scripture...

And, I have been observing this doctrine for many years...almost every day from someone...by at least a dozen or more preachers that teach this doctrine...and what they believe about there being no reason to expect the Antichrist to come before they are raptured. I asked the question answered by Choose Wisely to see if what I have observed is seen and heard by others...and he agreed that what I listed was the basic belief they follow as it is understood by him also...

Yedida, I have never before heard from any pre-tribber, or ex-pre-trib believer...what you say they believe: "The pretribs do believe that they will recognize the "a/c to be" as he is on his meteoric rise." That is new to me...for the above reason...

What the pre-tribs believe is not my point here...I am not forcing an issue for the sake of what they believe...

My point is that it is scriptural that this Antichrist will come someday to do his thing...that a belief that he might have been here and was someone who was here in the past...such as those we listed and anyone else who may have been thought to be him...was a mistake and non-scriptural also...because it was not time for him to be here yet...as explained in my previous post.

I believe that the end times...through the signs of the times...can be seen to actually show how possible it is that he is here right now...and therefore it is only logical that 'the man of sin, the Antichrist, could be here and have many...mainly because of the pre-trib rapture belief...not see him or recognize him because they must be raptured before he comes...or for other reasons by other people.

Why people other than pre-tribbers would refuse to allow for the possibility that this could be happening now is a mystery to me...and if they do allow for that possibility that they do not see the danger present in the world today...

But, as you have said before to me..."we will see" and that is absolute fact my friend...but "waiting to see" may be too late.

My concern is that if he is here now...look at all the people, especially Christians, who will miss it for believing in this false doctrine and for varied other reasons...and follow after the sucker in one way or another...such as taking his 'mark' by supporting his evil plan...and be lost for doing so! As found in Revelation 14:9-11...

That is why I started this thread here in the first place...so these discussions could go a step further than just on the MJ thread...so the OP would sooner or later bring this out to be seen by more people...that is how important I believe this to be...

If the Pre-tribulation Rapture Doctrine did happen to be true...ha...there would be no harm done...but if it is false...then it becomes that very dangerous and possibly even deadly doctrine I believe it to be...which I have been diligently attempting to show through the original language scripture lexicons the reasons for believing this to be true.

I hope this helps to clear some things up on what "I was trying to get at"!

Love you...God Bless

 

[yedida]

Peace to you friend mine...

I did not mean to be arguing with you...per se...I think you have misunderstood what I was getting at...I do not believe what pre-tribbers believe at all...so I am surely not forcing their belief that defies all scripture to be scriptural in any way...the whole dictrine is one big hole in scripture...

And, I have been observing this doctrine for many years...almost every day from someone...by at least a dozen or more preachers that teach this doctrine...and what they believe about there being no reason to expect the Antichrist to come before they are raptured. I asked the question answered by Choose Wisely to see if what I have observed is seen and heard by others...and he agreed that what I listed was the basic belief they follow as it is understood by him also...

Yedida, I have never before heard from any pre-tribber, or ex-pre-trib believer...what you say they believe: "The pretribs do believe that they will recognize the "a/c to be" as he is on his meteoric rise." That is new to me...for the above reason...

What the pre-tribs believe is not my point here...I am not forcing an issue for the sake of what they believe...

My point is that it is scriptural that this Antichrist will come someday to do his thing...that a belief that he might have been here and was someone who was here in the past...such as those we listed and anyone else who may have been thought to be him...was a mistake and non-scriptural also...because it was not time for him to be here yet...as explained in my previous post.

I believe that the end times...through the signs of the times...can be seen to actually show how possible it is that he is here right now...and therefore it is only logical that 'the man of sin, the Antichrist, could be here and have many...mainly because of the pre-trib rapture belief...not see him or recognize him because they must be raptured before he comes...or for other reasons by other people.

Why people other than pre-tribbers would refuse to allow for the possibility that this could be happening now is a mystery to me...and if they do allow for that possibility that they do not see the danger present in the world today...

But, as you have said before to me..."we will see" and that is absolute fact my friend...but "waiting to see" may be too late.

My concern is that if he is here now...look at all the people, especially Christians, who will miss it for believing in this false doctrine and for varied other reasons...and follow after the sucker in one way or another...such as taking his 'mark' by supporting his evil plan...and be lost for doing so! As found in Revelation 14:9-11...

That is why I started this thread here in the first place...so these discussions could go a step further than just on the MJ thread...so the OP would sooner or later bring this out to be seen by more people...that is how important I believe this to be...

If the Pre-tribulation Rapture Doctrine did happen to be true...ha...there would be no harm done...but if it is false...then it becomes that very dangerous and possibly even deadly doctrine I believe it to be...which I have been diligently attempting to show through the original language scripture lexicons the reasons for believing this to be true.

I hope this helps to clear some things up on what "I was trying to get at"!

Love you...God Bless

It's been close to 20 years since I held the pre-trib view, but back then most of us felt that we would see and know the ac to come. We did not think we would be here to see him do the things spoken of in the bible, but somehow we felf confident that just before we were whisked away, we'd see and know him, and therefore, we'd "know" it was just a matter of weeks or months before the rapture would take place. For that reason, you're right in that many will be deadly decieved.
Anyway, I'm happy to leave it all at the "we'll see" stage. Hashem is going to do what He deems perfect and right, and that's just fine with me. I'm ready to go to whereever He wants to take me when the call goes out.

 

[cf4rc]

It's been close to 20 years since I held the pre-trib view, but back then most of us felt that we would see and know the ac to come. We did not think we would be here to see him do the things spoken of in the bible, but somehow we felf confident that just before we were whisked away, we'd see and know him, and therefore, we'd "know" it was just a matter of weeks or months before the rapture would take place. For that reason, you're right in that many will be deadly decieved.
Anyway, I'm happy to leave it all at the "we'll see" stage. Hashem is going to do what He deems perfect and right, and that's just fine with me. I'm ready to go to whereever He wants to take me when the call goes out.

Peace to you again my friend,

Understood!

It is well and good for you to say "I'm happy to leave it all at the "we'll see" stage because it is impossible for you to be deceived by this man.

We don't have anything to worry about when it comes to the a/c...

Me, because I recognize him to be who I believe him to be...so therefore know I will not take his 'mark' in any way shape or form! Ever!

You, because you just don't like the guy or what he stands for and will never believe in or listen to his deceptive lies! You have been blessed to see what kind of man he is and therefore feel the way you do...

But, you knew I would say that didn't you!?, what about all the people in the churches and even here on CF that do not feel that way or do not recognize him for who he possibly is? That right now...have taken his 'mark'...for whatever reason...and as I said before...will therefore be lost if they don't come to see their mistake... stop...repent and run from him... back to the grace of God.

And I stress this point once again because it is so important...

He will not do things as we expect him to do them...as we may believe they will be done as taught through false teachings from many of our spiritual leaders...

He will use all the deception he can muster...to accomplish all the prophetic deeds that he must do as spoken of in the Word...and still not be easily recognized so that he may help his father Satan steal as many souls as he can during this 'spiritual warfare' between Him and God that is being fought every single day.

Two things I believe to be for sure are...he will NOT broker a 7 year 'peace treaty' as expected to be clearly seen as a sign of who he is...he will NOT come from a 'revised Roman empire in Europe' as expected to be seen...

I believe and pray that he will be recognized by the next step which I don't see how he can hide from...but I fear many will not see who he is until the 'abomination of desolation' that will prove to all who he is if they are not even then blinded to the truth.

The next step is for him to be the chosen leader of the 'One World Order' that will come as the answer to control the rampant chaos among the nations that we have already seen in Europe and is now spreading throughout the Middle East...and can even be seen in America to a certain extent...

This chaos will continue to quickly spread so that REAL "BIG GOVERNMENT" will have a good reason to take over everything world wide...and be eagerly accepted by most people in the world because of the fear of the chaos all around them and the desire to have all their needs be taken care of by this Socialist BIG GOVERNMENT, the One World Order.

The Socialist governments of nations being unable to continue giving to the people what they had come to expect is what started the chaos in Europe in the first place.

Look how quickly these things are happening right now...America is losing the government leaders friendly to us all over the Middle East...who do you think is the power and structure behind this?...and how the changes 'needed' can come within a very short period of time...the preparation setting this up has been going on for many years...the forces in control are ready at any given moment to make it happen.

If anyone wants to look at this as a conspiracy theory or the rantings of a religious nut only...they have that right but I believe they are just not willing to admit to themselves or see what is going on that clearly makes
this all very possible...NOW...

All this comes down to...seeing and believing the Antichrist is here and being prepared to take over his seat of power to control the world...or not.

We all see only what we can see...and, of course, I could possibly be 'seeing' what is really not there...but you now know...I don't believe that!
There is just way to much supporting my 'theory' for me to back off...

Well, enough said on my opinion of what is going on...let us all pray that we do nothing to offend our God and come to see the truth, no matter what that truth may be, through the Power of the Holy Spirit...

I believe I have gotten off the subject of rapture too much so please
forgive me...I am very adamant in my desire to show the importance of the 'new subject' of this post just as I am about rapture itself...

peace and love...God Bless

 

[yedida]

Peace to you again my friend,

Understood!

It is well and good for you to say "I'm happy to leave it all at the "we'll see" stage because it is impossible for you to be deceived by this man.

We don't have anything to worry about when it comes to the a/c...

Me, because I recognize him to be who I believe him to be...so therefore know I will not take his 'mark' in any way shape or form! Ever!

You, because you just don't like the guy or what he stands for and will never believe in or listen to his deceptive lies! You have been blessed to see what kind of man he is and therefore feel the way you do...

But, you knew I would say that didn't you!?, what about all the people in the churches and even here on CF that do not feel that way or do not recognize him for who he possibly is? That right now...have taken his 'mark'...for whatever reason...and as I said before...will therefore be lost if they don't come to see their mistake... stop...repent and run from him... back to the grace of God.

And I stress this point once again because it is so important...

He will not do things as we expect him to do them...as we may believe they will be done as taught through false teachings from many of our spiritual leaders...

He will use all the deception he can muster...to accomplish all the prophetic deeds that he must do as spoken of in the Word...and still not be easily recognized so that he may help his father Satan steal as many souls as he can during this 'spiritual warfare' between Him and God that is being fought every single day.

Two things I believe to be for sure are...he will NOT broker a 7 year 'peace treaty' as expected to be clearly seen as a sign of who he is...he will NOT come from a 'revised Roman empire in Europe' as expected to be seen...

I believe and pray that he will be recognized by the next step which I don't see how he can hide from...but I fear many will not see who he is until the 'abomination of desolation' that will prove to all who he is if they are not even then blinded to the truth.

The next step is for him to be the chosen leader of the 'One World Order' that will come as the answer to control the rampant chaos among the nations that we have already seen in Europe and is now spreading throughout the Middle East...and can even be seen in America to a certain extent...

This chaos will continue to quickly spread so that REAL "BIG GOVERNMENT" will have a good reason to take over everything world wide...and be eagerly accepted by most people in the world because of the fear of the chaos all around them and the desire to have all their needs be taken care of by this Socialist BIG GOVERNMENT, the One World Order.

The Socialist governments of nations being unable to continue giving to the people what they had come to expect is what started the chaos in Europe in the first place.

Look how quickly these things are happening right now...America is losing the government leaders friendly to us all over the Middle East...who do you think is the power and structure behind this?...and how the changes 'needed' can come within a very short period of time...the preparation setting this up has been going on for many years...the forces in control are ready at any given moment to make it happen.

If anyone wants to look at this as a conspiracy theory or the rantings of a religious nut only...they have that right but I believe they are just not willing to admit to themselves or see what is going on that clearly makes
this all very possible...NOW...

All this comes down to...seeing and believing the Antichrist is here and being prepared to take over his seat of power to control the world...or not.

We all see only what we can see...and, of course, I could possibly be 'seeing' what is really not there...but you now know...I don't believe that!
There is just way to much supporting my 'theory' for me to back off...

Well, enough said on my opinion of what is going on...let us all pray that we do nothing to offend our God and come to see the truth, no matter what that truth may be, through the Power of the Holy Spirit...

I believe I have gotten off the subject of rapture too much so please
forgive me...I am very adamant in my desire to show the importance of the 'new subject' of this post just as I am about rapture itself...

peace and love...God Bless

Just one word of kindly reminder: Most people are only gonna see what they think they already know. For most strong debate is a turn off, a few gentle words guiding to the truth will stick in the mind - later to flourish with a little watering.

 

[Manasseh_]

First sign of the biblical end times: Jews being restored to their land and becoming a nation again...May 14th, 1948... beginning of the 'generation of the fig tree'.

Jews were restored to the STATE of Israel in 1948 along with the tribes of Benjamin and Levi (House of Judah) but the other tribes were not restored at that time (House of Israel)............more so God foretold that when he would do this he would also raise David the king from the dead to be king again over Israel under Christ's authority as KING of kings....................

so 1948 cannot be the "first sign of the biblical end times" since Israel still hasn't become a nation again.

btw..............Abraham isn't jewish nor Isaac, Jacob (Israel) or Moses,(tribe of Levi) or Aarron............etc........etc..........only those from the tribe of JUDAH are jewish.

 

[yedida]

more so God foretold that when he would do this he would also raise David the king from the dead to be king again over Israel under Christ's authority as KING of kings....................

Book, chapter and verse please?

 

[Manasseh_]

Book, chapter and verse please?

Jeremiah chatper 30 , it's best you read the whole chapter, but pay particular attention to verse 7< specific reference to final end times and verse 9< promise to resurrect David at that time.

 

[LovedofHim]

Jews were restored to the STATE of Israel in 1948 along with the tribes of Benjamin and Levi (House of Judah) but the other tribes were not restored at that time (House of Israel)............more so God foretold that when he would do this he would also raise David the king from the dead to be king again over Israel under Christ's authority as KING of kings....................

so 1948 cannot be the "first sign of the biblical end times" since Israel still hasn't become a nation again.

btw..............Abraham isn't jewish nor Isaac, Jacob (Israel) or Moses,(tribe of Levi) or Aarron............etc........etc..........only those from the tribe of JUDAH are jewish.

Baloney!

There is no scripture that says this.

There is also no historical record to support such an erroneous assumption.

It's just plain wrong.

 

[yedida]

Jeremiah chatper 30 , it's best you read the whole chapter, but pay particular attention to verse 7< specific reference to final end times and verse 9< promise to resurrect David at that time.

Thank you for supplying the passage.
It's a pretty long stretch to take the words "raise up" and turn it into "resurrect." The Hebrew doesn't suggest "resurrect" either.
Unless, of course, you want it to mean Yeshua/Jesus. Then I can wholeheartedly agree!

 

[yedida]

Baloney!

There is no scripture that says this.

There is also no historical record to support such an erroneous assumption.

It's just plain wrong.

What assumption are you referring?
Manesseh's statement about David is a long stretch, what he said about the two houses is basically true. With the 12 sons of Jacob we have the 12 tribes of Israel, only the southern kingdom of Judah (which included Benyamin) of the whole house of Israel survived. Efrayim assimilated by choice and remain to this day unknown of man. As for the tribe of Levi, they were separated from the nation of Israel at Sinai, for God's service and as a ransom for all firstborn males from the rest of the tribes. They will be reunited as a part of Israel during the Great Tribulation when the 12,000 of each tribe is marked for God's witnesses.

A new thread needs to be started if you wish to address this.

 

[LovedofHim]

What assumption are you referring?
Manesseh's statement about David is a long stretch, what he said about the two houses is basically true. With the 12 sons of Jacob we have the 12 tribes of Israel, only the southern kingdom of Judah (which included Benyamin) of the whole house of Israel survived. Efrayim assimilated by choice and remain to this day unknown of man. As for the tribe of Levi, they were separated from the nation of Israel at Sinai, for God's service and as a ransom for all firstborn males from the rest of the tribes. They will be reunited as a part of Israel during the Great Tribulation when the 12,000 of each tribe is marked for God's witnesses.

No, Ezekiel 38 states that Israel is back in their land before ANY of that even begins. Jesus came to Israel. The NT proves that more than one, two or three tribes was around at the time of Jesus.

Manassah's error is in thinking that only part of Israel is back in the land.

Your error is thinking that "they will be reunited as part of Israel during the GT when 12,000 of each tribe is marked for God's witnesses".

#1. Revelation 6, 7, and 8 shows that 12,000 from each tribe are sealed before wrath begins AFTER the tribulation.
#2. Revelation 7 does not say they are "marked for God's witnesses".
#3. Revelation 7 does not say they this sealing occurs during the tribulation.

 

[Manasseh_]

Baloney!

There is no scripture that says this.

There is also no historical record to support such an erroneous assumption.

It's just plain wrong.

No scripture that says this, EXCEPT for the books of the kings and chronicles and as for "no historical record" to support it........well.........let's just say if you were in a Theological history discussion among scholars they would laugh you out of the room if they heard you call it an "erroneous assumption"

what's just plain wrong is the fact you REFUSE accept obvious scriptural support which if you would simply study these books you would understand yourself ..............

 

[Manasseh_]

Thank you for supplying the passage.
It's a pretty long stretch to take the words "raise up" and turn it into "resurrect." The Hebrew doesn't suggest "resurrect" either.
Unless, of course, you want it to mean Yeshua/Jesus. Then I can wholeheartedly agree!

You're most welcome...............

Since it is the end and David has long since been dead, what method other than resurrection would David "raise up" ? It would only be a "long stretch" if you can supply another way for dead men to live again ? another way other than resurrection through Christ.........at the "last day" John 6:39-40-44-54

 

[yedida]

No, Ezekiel 38 states that Israel is back in their land before ANY of that even begins. Jesus came to Israel. The NT proves that more than one, two or three tribes was around at the time of Jesus.

Manassah's error is in thinking that only part of Israel is back in the land.

Your error is thinking that "they will be reunited as part of Israel during the GT when 12,000 of each tribe is marked for God's witnesses".

#1. Revelation 6, 7, and 8 shows that 12,000 from each tribe are sealed before wrath begins AFTER the tribulation.
#2. Revelation 7 does not say they are "marked for God's witnesses".
#3. Revelation 7 does not say they this sealing occurs during the tribulation.

I won't argue your points here. It's derailing the thread, so this will be my last response on this subject.
I will state that as of March 2005 peoples from the other (lost) tribes have begun to be recognized by the Beit Din in Israel and are returning. There are more that claim descendancy from one "lost" tribe or another still awaiting aliyah. Sadly, many of these are Christian and they are not being let back in as of yet. Even some of the peoples who have been restored to the land have relations left behind because of their faith in their Messiah.
But it is happening!!