Noah's Ark

[oneofchrists]

Please forgive me for bringing this up as it probably has been brought up many times in the past but............The Ark being 300 cubits long and 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high.... well in todays measurements in feet that is 450 long x 75 wide x 45 high.............well since I was a little boy I reasoned to myself how could such a craft hold one pair (male and female) of every creature on the earth not withstanding 7 of every domesticated animal breeds or species Not withstanding enough feed for a little over a year in most cases for all to be released and set loose upon the earth.

Not doubting any of what is in scripture just wondering how so many animals could fit on board?................God Bless all of You.......Dave

 

[Papias]

oneofchrists wrote:

well since I was a little boy I reasoned to myself how could such a craft hold one pair (male and female) of every creature on the earth not withstanding 7 of every domesticated animal breeds or species Not withstanding enough feed for a little over a year in most cases for all to be released and set loose upon the earth.

There are various proposed answers to the many problems with a literal flood from a feasibility standpoint. Some of those can be seen in this article:

- Problems with a Global Flood? -

which is a response to this page:

Problems with a Global Flood, 2nd edition

The simplest solution is to rely on hyperevolution - where a much smaller group of animals (maybe one from every order, not species) were taken onto the ark, and then these pairs, on coming out to the desolated landscape, found food and then evolved into all modern species at evolution rates hundreds of times faster than that proposed by the normal evolutionary model.

It's a pretty big topic. I encourage you to read from both sides, and resolve it as is best for you. Remember that there are many sincere Christians on both sides of the discussion.

In Christ-

Papias

 

[oneofchrists]

Thanks Papias!

 

[Jpark]

Please forgive me for bringing this up as it probably has been brought up many times in the past but............The Ark being 300 cubits long and 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high.... well in todays measurements in feet that is 450 long x 75 wide x 45 high.............well since I was a little boy I reasoned to myself how could such a craft hold one pair (male and female) of every creature on the earth not withstanding 7 of every domesticated animal breeds or species Not withstanding enough feed for a little over a year in most cases for all to be released and set loose upon the earth.

Not doubting any of what is in scripture just wondering how so many animals could fit on board?................God Bless all of You.......Dave

First of all, why think of the Flood happening recently?

If you take Gen. 3:14 literally and you interpret the removal of legs as applying to all serpents and happening in a instant (so it could not be evolution), the fall of man happens in the Late Cretaceous, around 90 mya. So the Flood takes place in the Paleogene period, which is when we start seeing more mammals, birds, etc... so then, the Flood sounds more plausible.

 

[oneofchrists]

First of all, why think of the Flood happening recently?

If you take Gen. 3:14 literally and you interpret the removal of legs as applying to all serpents and happening in a instant (so it could not be evolution), the fall of man happens in the Late Cretaceous, around 90 mya. So the Flood takes place in the Paleogene period, which is when we start seeing more mammals, birds, etc... so then, the Flood sounds more plausible.

I wasn't questioning Creations time period nor was I questioning the power of God , only the capability of the Ark , as large as it was, it was far from large enough to House all the critters that were on the whole of the earth at that time...........or most any time short of 200,000,000 years ago. Thanks for your input and God Bless You and all who contribute to this thread.......Dave

 

[mark kennedy]

Please forgive me for bringing this up as it probably has been brought up many times in the past but............The Ark being 300 cubits long and 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high.... well in todays measurements in feet that is 450 long x 75 wide x 45 high.............well since I was a little boy I reasoned to myself how could such a craft hold one pair (male and female) of every creature on the earth not withstanding 7 of every domesticated animal breeds or species Not withstanding enough feed for a little over a year in most cases for all to be released and set loose upon the earth.

Not doubting any of what is in scripture just wondering how so many animals could fit on board?................God Bless all of You.......Dave

There was one pretty thoughtful attempt at an answer for this and some of the problems associated with it.

John Woodmorappe's NOAH'S ARK: A FEASIBILITY STUDY

Now I'm not saying run out and buy the book but the number he came up with was 16,000. Seems a little high to me but he seems willing and able to defend his views:

John Woodmorappe's refutation of Glen Morton's review of NOAH'S ARK: A FEASIBILITY STUDY

In short I don't know but the Ark was huge, even by modern standards. My biggest issue is that with the limited number of living creatures to the multiple millions of varieties. Think about it, their offspring, spreading across the face of the earth is such a short span of time had to be a rapid adaptive radiation requiring accelerated evolution no matter how you look at it.

That's why I think the whole issue is upside down and backwards. Creationists should be regarded as radical evolutionists, not antievolutionists.

At any rate, one estimate is 16,000.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Faith.Man]

Before It's News

Is this one of the creatures that Noah saved, or did this creature survive from an earlier prehistoric age?

 

[miamited]

Hi Dave,

Ok, let's see, total sf/floor = 33,750 that's about the area of 3/4 acre of land. Total number of decks = 3. Total area sf just over 100,000. About 2 1/2 acres of land area.

How many large (bigger than a dog) land creatures are there? If we allow that God made them to live at peace with each other and allowing each one some room to move about, but not much, we could probably fit every large land creature that inhabits the earth today on one deck and certainly on a deck and a half. All other land creatures smaller than a dog could probably fit in the other half deck leaving a full deck for Noah and his son's and their wives.

There may well be some truth that much of the inter-species that we see today was not included. For example: There were two dogs. Not a Siberian and a Doberman and German Shepherd. Two cats. Two horses. Much of the breeding specialities may well have come after the pairs of each left the ark. God knows which animals can breed together and so He would only have to include those that specifically breed separately.

As far as the food. It's worth considering that many animals may have been put into some miraculous form of hibernation during the voyage. Especially those that do naturally hibernate. God can adjust metabolisms as easily as He can make stars. So, a great storehouse of food may not have been necessary, although we know there was some.

So, agreed that on the surface it sounds like a near impossibility, but when one really sits down and considers all the possible variables, it begins to look not so impossible.
Finally, as believers we know that God said He did it and so whether or not I can comprehend how He did it, I think that all God wants from us is our belief, not our engineering designs. I find as I have searched and read the Scriptures that there is a lot that I have to just scratch my head and say, "Father, I don't have any clue as to how you accomplished this, but I trust that you did." The virgin birth is a perfect example. How did God impregnate Mary? This holy being who lives separate and apart from us and has no physical means of reproducing or could possibly lie with Mary in a sexual manner, how did He impregnate Mary? Quite frankly, I find it harder to explain the mechanics of that, than the animals on the ark.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Faith.Man]

Another creature that missed the boat.

FoxNews.com - Meet Titanoceratops, the Newly Discovered King of Horned Dinos

 

[Jazer]

Not doubting any of what is in scripture just wondering how so many animals could fit on board?................God Bless all of You.......Dave

The "world" is a referance to the Garden of Eden. It was the animals in Noah's part of the world that would have been destroyed in the flood. It could not have been the whole world. There are many islands that have a biodiversity that is unique to that island. It would be impossible to gather all the animals in the world and somehow return them to the exact place you got them from. So you end up with what a lot of people call a local flood compared to the concept of a world wide flood. You just have to look at the meaning of the word: "world" in the origional Hebrew langage which is "Adamah". Or the Land of Adam.

 

[Papias]

Faith.Man wrote:

Another creature that missed the boat.

Note that the idea that extinct kinds are extinct because they missed or were missed in loading the ark contraticts a literal reading of Genesis, which states that two (or 7) of every kind of creature were put on the ark. This is why YECs claim that there were dinosaurs on the ark.

Papias

 

[oneofchrists]

This is what I have always thought but if I even so much as suggest that in My fellowship .....why, I am nothing more than a heretic and a man with no faith in the power of GOD..........The thing is ......I do believe in His almighty Power..........I just have trouble in How I interpret it in comparison to others views......God Bless You all and to all who contribute to this thread...........Dave

 

[Faith.Man]

Faith.Man wrote:

Note that the idea that extinct kinds are extinct because they missed or were missed in loading the ark contraticts a literal reading of Genesis, which states that two (or 7) of every kind of creature were put on the ark. This is why YECs claim that there were dinosaurs on the ark.

Papias

Sarcasm is a low form of humor I admit, but sometimes it just slips out. If you don't remember or don't know, I am an Old Earth Creationist - Gap Theory and Big Bang Believer who believes Noah's Flood was a large local flood.

 

[Papias]

Faith.Man wrote:

Sarcasm is a low form of humor I admit, but sometimes it just slips out. If you don't remember or don't know, I am an Old Earth Creationist - Gap Theory and Big Bang Believer who believes Noah's Flood was a large local flood.

No offense taken nor meant. I only mentioned that as a point of information, not that I was disagreeing with you. Sorry if my post came across as short - I'm pretty busy today.

Have a blessed day-

Papias

 

[Faith.Man]

Faith.Man wrote:


No offense taken nor meant. I only mentioned that as a point of information, not that I was disagreeing with you. Sorry if my post came across as short - I'm pretty busy today.

Have a blessed day-

Papias

Likewise.

 

[Jpark]

I wasn't questioning Creations time period nor was I questioning the power of God , only the capability of the Ark , as large as it was, it was far from large enough to House all the critters that were on the whole of the earth at that time...........or most any time short of 200,000,000 years ago. Thanks for your input and God Bless You and all who contribute to this thread.......Dave

See, that's the problem. Scripture says two of each animal, not every animal.

 

[BenB]

Well first of all it was only land animals, so that does not include aquatic life, amphibians, birds, etc.

And then when the Bible says "kinds" it most likely did not mean every species, rather every genus. (For example a generic dog from which all breeds of dog come from).

And of the animals which did go on the ark were probably juveniles, which are usually alot smaller than adults.

 

[Papias]

JPark wrote:

See, that's the problem. Scripture says two of each animal, not every animal.

YEC responses vary, but remember that there are between 2 and 5 million kinds of animals, so 2 (or 7) of each is quite a few. Even with blazingly fast hyperevolution all the way up to the genus level, that's still thousands.

BenB wrote:

Well first of all it was only land animals, so that does not include aquatic life, amphibians, birds, etc.

YEC response is that birds miraculously flew continuously day and night without getting tired for over a year, that the aquatic life could miraculously survive not getting buried with all the fossils, in new temperatures and normally unlivable changes in salinity, etc.

And then when the Bible says "kinds" it most likely did not mean every species, rather every genus. (For example a generic dog from which all breeds of dog come from).

This would require rates of evolution hundreds of times faster than that suggested by scientists and old earth creationists in the fossil record. Plus, it allows ape to human evolution (same genus, homo).

And of the animals which did go on the ark were probably juveniles, which are usually alot smaller than adults.

Remember that in the YEC world, animals stay juveniles for over a year, and don't need to learn from the adults about how live, hunt, and survive. (We're used to the weirdly long childhood of humans, most animals, even as large as deer, aren't juveniles for a year.) Plus, these same juveniles are able to find food, shelter, and establish whole ecosystems in the devasted, barren post flood landscape, while the travel thousands of miles to establish the animal homelands we see today.
OEC's don't have to do any of that.

Papias

 

[oneofchrists]

It was mentioned about the birdsall in flight for a whole year............I suppose the raptor birds and birds of prey might be able to catch other small birds in flight as long as they were tiny enough to gulp down in flight that might work in some far fetched way but what about the carrion eating birds the seed eating birds and of course there are the sea birds but most birds that eat meat , like eagles and hawks need to touch down in order to feed......what of those creatures.

I am not sure any have thought of all the early mammals some of which were every much as large as the dinosaurs...........they were huge even juveniles were big some weighed tons as adults and measured 25 feet at the front shoulders even a pair of each of these would take up almost the whole ark, not even taking into account the dinosaurs and the animals that we have today.........May I either try and think about this too much or I am totally lost when it comes to this subject................again God Bless all of You............Dave

 

[Jazer]

every kind of creature were put on the ark.

There are over a thousand islands in the Philippines. It is very common to find an animal on those islands that you will not find anywhere else in the world. The biodiversity in the Philippines is based on a pre flood distribution. But that is to complicated to explain right now. The bottom line is that the Noah's flood had to be what we call a local flood. Noah could not have traveled all over the world picking up animals and somehow returning them to the exact island he got them from.