Explaining the Trinity

[Simonline]

so are you saying that God is not "a" trinity but by nature trinity?

in order to relate to people i turned my thesaurus off years ago .

i believe what Paul said, if a tongue cannot be understood, then it edifies no one. such as scholarese .

Actually, If you're believing the Bible as the 'Word of God' then you're believing what God said through His prophets and apostles (including Paul). It is YHWH who is the principle author of Scripture (2Tim.3:16-17).

To say that God is 'a' Trinity implies that there is more than one Trinity but in this case that cannot possibly be true since YHWH has revealed that whilst He is Tri-Personal He is also unique. I am saying that by Nature YHWH Exists as Tri-Personal rather than Mono-Personal.

Many people erroneously think of YHWH as 'three separate persons who 'came together' to become the 'Trinitarian' God YHWH' as if 'God' is a 'mathematical set' consisting of three separate Persons all of whom, by virtue of being included within the 'set' are God but that is not the correct Biblical understanding of God. Instead, the One God is a Single Eternal Entity Who just happens to Exist as Tri-Personal (3 Persons) rather than Mono-Personal (1 Person), in other words, there was no point when three separate entities or persons came together to become the single entity 'God'. God [YHWH] has ALWAYS Existed as a Single, Eternal, Tri-Personal Entity.

Dumbing one's erudition down in order to communicate with people who are educationally challenged is not the answer. Like all specialist fields, with their own terminology and jargon, Judeo-Christian theology is no different. Those of us who know and understand have a responsibility to encourage and correctly teach people who don't know or understand and those who don't know or understand have a responsibility to study, learn and understand as much as they are able (1Tim.2:15). The alternative (i.e. everything is reduced to its lowest common denominator and we're all reduced to grunting our heads off whilst scratting around in the dirt) simply doesn't bare contemplating?! Education and erudition can be such a tremendous augmentative blessing to life.

Simonline.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Saying that God is a trinity may also imply the person has something to liken it to .

but i understand what you meant initially .

 

[RibI]

It looks like you said there is nothing to explain (for trinitarians). That couldn't possibly be true if the matter were in any kind of contention, or if it were not self evident. If it were a matter of contention, or not self evident, it would require a great deal of explanation.

You just make thing say what you want them to say.
The key word in what I said was, "NOTHING."

 

[Willtor]

You just make thing say what you want them to say.
The key word in what I said was, "NOTHING."

Well... there it is. You've proven your case against the Trinity to my satisfaction. Och! And to think, all I had to do was emphasize the right word...

 

[Simonline]

Saying that God is a trinity may also imply the person has something to liken it to .

Not at all since, in the case of YHWH, there is nothing with which He can be compared (Isa.40:12-31)?!

Simonline.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Not at all since, in the case of YHWH, there is nothing with which He can be compared (Isa.40:12-31)?!

Simonline.

Yet humans were created in His likeness.

 

[Simonline]

You just make thing say what you want them to say.
The key word in what I said was, "NOTHING."

In other words, according to you, YHWH does not exist as Tri-Personal and therefore there is nothing to explain? You have yet to demonstrate (Q.E.D.) that to be the case?! You cannot, like a mindless idiot, keep repeating the same unsubstantiated theological statements and expect other people to take you seriously?!

As I have said before, if one believes that YHWH is but Mono-Personal then one has an insurmountable problem, namely that the YHWH in whom one believes is a hypocritical murderer. This is because, having told Mankind that murder is wrong (Ex.20:13) YHWH then himself murders his own innocent Messiah (Isa.53:10(a)) as somone 'other' than himself (since YHWH is supposedly mono-personal rather than tri-personal), ostensibly for the sins of His fallen creation?!

If, on the other hand YHWH exists as Tri-Personal rather than Mono-Personal (as the Judeo-Christian Scriptures actually reveal) then in sacrificing His own Messiah (as the human incarnation of YHWH (Isa.43:10-13; Matt.1:23)) YHWH is actually sacrificing Himself for His own sinful creation (Jn.10:17-18) as the ultimate demonstration (Jn.15:13) of the supreme act of love (1Jn.4:8,16)?!

So the burden of proof that YHWH exists as mono-personal rather than tri-personal clearly lies with those who wilfully choose (in spite of all the Scriptural evidence to the contrary) to believe that YHWH is Unitarian rather than Trinitarian?!

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

Yet humans were created in His likeness.

No, humans ARE (still) created in the likeness of their Creator but that does not mean that we are identical facsimilies of the Creator?! He exists as Tri-Personal whereas (schizophrenia notwithstanding) we exist as mono-personal, He exists as Infinite, we exist as finite, etc. Humans are the closest thing known to that of the Creator but we are still an unfathomable distance from being an exact facsimilie?!

Simonline.

 

[RibI]

Well... there it is. You've proven your case against the Trinity to my satisfaction. Och! And to think, all I had to do was emphasize the right word...

That and read what the Bible says, not what you've heard people say it says.
You know this subject can't be talked about in an open manner on here with out getting kicked off the forum.
So all I can do is give you hints; you have to figure it out from there.

 

[RibI]

In other words, according to you, YHWH does not exist as Tri-Personal and therefore there is nothing to explain? You have yet to demonstrate (Q.E.D.) that to be the case?! You cannot, like a mindless idiot, keep repeating the same unsubstantiated theological statements and expect other people to take you seriously?!

As I have said before, if one believes that YHWH is but Mono-Personal then one has an insurmountable problem, namely that the YHWH in whom one believes is a hypocritical murderer. This is because, having told Mankind that murder is wrong (Ex.20:13) YHWH then himself murders his own innocent Messiah (Isa.53:10(a)) as somone 'other' than himself (since YHWH is supposedly mono-personal rather than tri-personal), ostensibly for the sins of His fallen creation?!

If, on the other hand YHWH exists as Tri-Personal rather than Mono-Personal (as the Judeo-Christian Scriptures actually reveal) then in sacrificing His own Messiah (as the human incarnation of YHWH (Isa.43:10-13; Matt.1:23)) YHWH is actually sacrificing Himself for His own sinful creation (Jn.10:17-18) as the ultimate demonstration (Jn.15:13) of the supreme act of love (1Jn.4:8,16)?!

So the burden of proof that YHWH exists as mono-personal rather than tri-personal clearly lies with those who wilfully choose (in spite of all the Scriptural evidence to the contrary) to believe that YHWH is Unitarian rather than Trinitarian?!

Simonline.

There you go again. All that drivel and nothing to say that has anything to do with what was said. I didn't say anything about being unitarian.
That's what started all this crap back in the 3rd or 4th century.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

No, humans ARE (still) created in the likeness of their Creator but that does not mean that we are identical facsimilies of the Creator?! He exists as Tri-Personal whereas (schizophrenia notwithstanding) we exist as mono-personal, He exists as Infinite, we exist as finite, etc. Humans are the closest thing known to that of the Creator but we are still an unfathomable distance from being an exact facsimilie?!

Simonline.

co-heirs with Christ, nuff said .

 

[Simonline]

co-heirs with Christ, nuff said .

Except that the Messiah, existing as the human creature, Jesus of Nazareth, is equally as different with the rest of us as the same Messiah Existing as the Divine Creator, YHWH (Heb.2:17)?

Simonline.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Except that the Messiah, existing as the human creature, Jesus of Nazareth, is equally as different with the rest of us as the same Messiah Existing as the Divine Creator, YHWH (Heb.2:17)?

Simonline.

Jesus indwells us . so it is no longer I who live but He who lives within me.

and furthermore, as paul asserted, it is no longer I who sin but the sin within me that sins .

I no longer am, but am being made to be as I Am,

i don't try to understand it . I just accept God's generosity as in the beginning .

 

[Simonline]

Jesus indwells us . so it is no longer I who live but He who lives within me.

The Messiah may indwell you by means of His Spirit but that does not alter the fact that as a finite creature you are definitely NOT the same as YHWH as the Infinite Creator?! Having the Infinite Creator indwell you by His Spirit does not eliminate the distinction between Him as the Infinite Creator and you as His finite creature? Your attempt at metaphysical casuistry is invalid.

and furthermore, as paul asserted, it is no longer I who sin but the sin within me that sins.

So are you then saying that, as believers, we are thus absolved of any and all moral responsibility for sin in our lives?! I don't think so (1Jn.1:5-10).

I no longer am, but am being made to be as I Am

Again, just because, as a believer, you are being conformed to the likeness of the Messiah (Rom.8:29) does not alter the fact that it is YHWH Who is the Infinite Creator and you are His finite creature (and will always be so). The likeness to which you are being conformed is that of the Messiah existing as a perfect finite creature and NOT the Messiah existing as the Perfect Infinite Creator (a metaphysical impossibility)?!

i don't try to understand it.

That's obvious.

Simonline.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The Messiah may indwell you by means of His Spirit but that does not alter the fact that as a finite creature you are definitely NOT the same as YHWH as the Infinite Creator?! Having the Infinite Creator indwell you by His Spirit does not eliminate the distinction between Him as the Infinite Creator and you as His finite creature? Your attempt at metaphysical casuistry is invalid.

So are you then saying that, as believers, we are thus absolved of any and all moral responsibility for sin in our lives?! I don't think so (1Jn.1:5-10).

Again, just because, as a believer, you are being conformed to the likeness of the Messiah (Rom.8:29) does not alter the fact that it is YHWH Who is the Infinite Creator and you are His finite creature (and will always be so). The likeness to which you are being conformed is that of the Messiah existing as a perfect finite creature and NOT the Messiah existing as the Perfect Infinite Creator (a metaphysical impossibility)?!

That's obvious.

Simonline.

I don't expect you to understand it either .

but i will continue to experience it .

even if you disagree .

Certainty is an idol, and the desire for it is covetousness .

 

[Simonline]

I don't expect you to understand it either .

but i will continue to experience it .

even if you disagree .

Certainty is an idol, and the desire for it is covetousness .

Spoken like a true New Ager.

Simonline.

 

[Simonline]

There you go again. All that drivel and nothing to say that has anything to do with what was said. I didn't say anything about being unitarian.
That's what started all this crap back in the 3rd or 4th century.

Originally Posted by mindlight

Explaining the Trinity
​

There is nothing to explain.
Boy, that was easy.

You obviously have the memory of a goldfish (approximately 3 seconds so I'm told)?!

My post was in response to this earlier post of yours (the implication of which is that God Exists as Unitarian rather than Trinitarian which would be why, according to you, 'there would be nothing to explain')?!

Thus my 'drivel' still stands as valid.

Simonline.

 

[RibI]

Originally Posted by mindlight

Explaining the Trinity
​

You obviously have the memory of a goldfish (approximately 3 seconds so I'm told)?!

My post was in response to this earlier post of yours (the implication of which is that God Exists as Unitarian rather than Trinitarian which would be why, according to you, 'there would be nothing to explain')?!

Thus my 'drivel' still stands as valid.

Simonline.

Only in your mind. There is a third option, the truth.
I never led you toward trinitarnism or unitarianism.

 

[Simonline]

Only in your mind. There is a third option, the truth.
I never led you toward trinitarnism or unitarianism.

I never said that you did?! I admit that I could be arguing with you on the basis of a false assumption [i.e. that if you're not a Trinitarian then you must be a Unitarian], I'm man enough to admit that. So tell me about the god(s) in which you believe (which, if it isn't/they aren't the same as the God of the Bible, is definitely not the truth (Jn.14:6; 17:17))?

Simonline.

 

[RibI]

I never said that you did?! I admit that I could be arguing with you on the basis of a false assumption [i.e. that if you're not a Trinitarian then you must be a Unitarian], I'm man enough to admit that. So tell me about the god(s) in which you believe (which, if it isn't/they aren't the same as the God of the Bible, is definitely not the truth (Jn.14:6; 17:17))?

Simonline.

Jo. 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.

It's no more difficult than that.