If Christians Have Strong Faith in Their God...

[Dharma Wheel]

...Why do Christians try to keep debates with Non-Christians at a minimum?

This is something I have always wondered. The obvious example is this forum itself, which only allows one Christian to debate in a thread in this board and bars non-Christians from expressing opinions in GT etc. but this site is not the geatest example of this. You hear day by day that a Christian group wants to censor the opinions of non-Christians, for example when a Hindu cjaplain attempted to pray before the US senate, and deliberately made his message not focus specifically on Hinduism, he was heckled and derided by people quoting the scripture and so forth.

My question, and I do not mean to offend, is this; if Christians feel that their faith in Jesus is so strong why do they seem to fear non-Christians? I mean, would letting a Hindu priest pray be so had, or letting non-Christian debate with you be a chore?

 

[E.C.]

...Why do Christians try to keep debates with Non-Christians at a minimum?

Because many Christians fear losing their faith.

Of course, if one has strong faith than what has one to lose in speaking with those who don't hold the same beliefs?

Some people just can't take on a good challenge!

 

[AlexBP]

We don't, in my experience. I've seen plenty of Christians seek out debate with members of other religions. Most of the subforums at CF are open to all. This particular subforum has a particular set of rules because its purpose is to allow outsiders to ask questions and get answers from Christians, but there are plenty of other subforums where it's a round table that all can contribute to.

I've never heard of the episode you mention involving the Hindu chaplain.

 

[Chesterton]

YouTube and the internet in general, as well as libraries and universities, are loaded with Christians debating non-Christians.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

...Why do Christians try to keep debates with Non-Christians at a minimum?

This is something I have always wondered. The obvious example is this forum itself, which only allows one Christian to debate in a thread in this board and bars non-Christians from expressing opinions in GT etc. but this site is not the geatest example of this. You hear day by day that a Christian group wants to censor the opinions of non-Christians, for example when a Hindu cjaplain attempted to pray before the US senate, and deliberately made his message not focus specifically on Hinduism, he was heckled and derided by people quoting the scripture and so forth.

My question, and I do not mean to offend, is this; if Christians feel that their faith in Jesus is so strong why do they seem to fear non-Christians? I mean, would letting a Hindu priest pray be so had, or letting non-Christian debate with you be a chore?

This is the only discussion forum I've been on (granted, I'm only a member of two on the great big interwebs) that seems to be somewhat strict on this regard. I don't think it's very reflective of Christian attitude in general, just the way it works here. There are certain things I'm not allowed to talk about even among other Christians, just the way it goes I guess.

As far as the specific case of when the Hindu chaplain prayed and was shouted down, or in similar such cases, I can only say that it's deeply unfortunate that many Christians in America are--at least in my opinion--entirely too comfortable with being the alpha dog in American culture. I don't believe it represents the Christianity that I try to dedicate myself to, but it clearly does represent the Christianity of many Christians here and abroad. For that, I don't think any excuses can be made, only heartfelt apology as a member of the Christian community and my own attempts to try and be a better Christian in my dealings with those outside of the Christian faith.

I believe the biggest reason for hostile outbursts such as what happened a couple years ago with the Hindu leading prayer, stems more from fear of losing importance and alpha-status than actual faith.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Deleteriousnonsense]

I believe the biggest reason for hostile outbursts such as what happened a couple years ago with the Hindu leading prayer, stems more from fear of losing importance and alpha-status than actual faith.

-CryptoLutheran

Interesting theory but I have difficulty believing big, bad Christian America is overly fearful of losing "alpha-dog" status (love that term) to skinny little Hinduism. It probably has more to do with the hecklers just being jerks.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Interesting theory but I have difficulty believing big, bad Christian America is overly fearful of losing "alpha-dog" status (love that term) to skinny little Hinduism. It probably has more to do with the hecklers just being jerks.

Not Hinduism per se, but rather that having a non-Christian prayer uttered in Congress meant that it wasn't a Christian prayer uttered in Congress. The "take back America for God" crowd would see that as another attempt to "secularize" or at least "de-Christianize" what they view as a "Christian nation". I doubt anyone's afraid of America becoming Hindu, but rather fearful and hostile toward losing Christianity's status of privilege, at least culturally.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Chesterton]

At least we don't murder and rape Hindus as they murder and rape Christians in India.

 

[GigageiTsula]

Speaking for myself only, I don't mind talking with non-believers about my faith or about what I personally believe as a Christian. But I have learned from experience that it's wise to be more cautious (on guard) when conversing with other Christians on such topics as faith and personal beliefs. Grant it, it's not that way with every Christian I have ever spoken to, but I have learned to be cautious and tread lightly nonetheless (especially while on CF or other online Christian communities).

"For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day." II Timothy 1:12

 

[Dharma Wheel]

Because many Christians fear losing their faith.

The thought did cross my mind.

Of course, if one has strong faith than what has one to lose in speaking with those who don't hold the same beliefs?

Agreed. I debate with and listen to the views of others, because my beliefs are strong enough.

Some people just can't take on a good challenge!

 

[Dharma Wheel]

This is the only discussion forum I've been on (granted, I'm only a member of two on the great big interwebs) that seems to be somewhat strict on this regard. I don't think it's very reflective of Christian attitude in general, just the way it works here. There are certain things I'm not allowed to talk about even among other Christians, just the way it goes I guess.

Yeah, I guess it is just the way it goes. Actually the strictness of this forum, and I do not mean to offend the mods or get a warning for saying this, might not send out the right message. It is true as many have said that many forums are open to all, however, most forums aren't. For instance, if a thread in this forum turns into a major debate, the non-Christian will be overwhelmed by the Christians who post here due to the fact that an unlimited about of Christians can post here, yet only one Christian can. Yes, this forum is for sincere questions, but questions do lead to debates.

As far as the specific case of when the Hindu chaplain prayed and was shouted down, or in similar such cases, I can only say that it's deeply unfortunate that many Christians in America are--at least in my opinion--entirely too comfortable with being the alpha dog in American culture. I don't believe it represents the Christianity that I try to dedicate myself to, but it clearly does represent the Christianity of many Christians here and abroad. For that, I don't think any excuses can be made, only heartfelt apology as a member of the Christian community and my own attempts to try and be a better Christian in my dealings with those outside of the Christian faith.

Your apology for that act of rudeness is very noble and it would have been nice if the leader of those hecklers (the leader of the AFA, I believe) could have given an apology too; however, the hecklers were fully supported by the AFA. Luckily many Christian were against it, but sometimes to a non-Christian it does seem that the majority have little sympathy for people like that Hindu chaplain and many others who have suffered the brunt of aggressive Christianity. I know that it is not the case, as most Christian in England are more ''liberal'' or ''moderate'', but I think aggressive Christianity is very loud in the US especially.

I believe the biggest reason for hostile outbursts such as what happened a couple years ago with the Hindu leading prayer, stems more from fear of losing importance and alpha-status than actual faith.

-CryptoLutheran

That is a good point and a good answer. Groups often fear sliding down the ''food chain'', of course.

 

[Dharma Wheel]

Interesting theory but I have difficulty believing big, bad Christian America is overly fearful of losing "alpha-dog" status (love that term) to skinny little Hinduism. It probably has more to do with the hecklers just being jerks.

Well Hinduism is also a rather big faith and Dharmic is almost as big a group as Abrahamic.

At least we don't murder and rape Hindus as they murder and rape Christians in India.

I think we debated this before, Chesterton, and I pointed out that Christian terrorism in India does exist, and the Nagaland terrorists are probably the best example of it.

 

[Dharma Wheel]

Speaking for myself only, I don't mind talking with non-believers about my faith or about what I personally believe as a Christian. But I have learned from experience that it's wise to be more cautious (on guard) when conversing with other Christians on such topics as faith and personal beliefs. Grant it, it's not that way with every Christian I have ever spoken to, but I have learned to be cautious and tread lightly nonetheless (especially while on CF or other online Christian communities).

I am sorry to hear that. The division between Christian groups does seem very hostile at times. It makes me glad that, as a Buddhist, I am not part of it. I do hope that your fellow Christians treat you, and all other Christians, with more respect.

 

[Dharma Wheel]

I've never heard of the episode you mention involving the Hindu chaplain.

Oh, I intended to include the video as an example. My sincerest apologies.

YouTube - Christian extremists disrupt Hindu Senate invocation

 

[Jpark]

...Why do Christians try to keep debates with Non-Christians at a minimum?

This is something I have always wondered. The obvious example is this forum itself, which only allows one Christian to debate in a thread in this board and bars non-Christians from expressing opinions in GT etc. but this site is not the geatest example of this. You hear day by day that a Christian group wants to censor the opinions of non-Christians, for example when a Hindu cjaplain attempted to pray before the US senate, and deliberately made his message not focus specifically on Hinduism, he was heckled and derided by people quoting the scripture and so forth.

My question, and I do not mean to offend, is this; if Christians feel that their faith in Jesus is so strong why do they seem to fear non-Christians? I mean, would letting a Hindu priest pray be so had, or letting non-Christian debate with you be a chore?

2 Cor. 6:14-15.

The stereotype, "all Christians are unintelligent", is untrue. Paul was aware that his fellow believers could be persuaded out of faith. That is why he included this warning. Today, we see a ever increasing number of believers accepting tenets of science to some degree. Is this done because of conformity or is this genuine? All humans have reasoning (Job 32:7-9).

There are also Matt. 7:6 and 2 Tim. 2:25 to consider.

Matt. 7:6 indicates that the typical response to the gospel will be hostility. 2 Tim. 2:25 indicates that the only reason why people come to saving faith is because God grants it.

 

[sanjaya1984]

Not Hinduism per se, but rather that having a non-Christian prayer uttered in Congress meant that it wasn't a Christian prayer uttered in Congress. The "take back America for God" crowd would see that as another attempt to "secularize" or at least "de-Christianize" what they view as a "Christian nation". I doubt anyone's afraid of America becoming Hindu, but rather fearful and hostile toward losing Christianity's status of privilege, at least culturally.

Respectfully I would have to disagree with that assessment. Zed's derailers in Congress were shouting about the Christian God's abhorrance of false religions and/or gods, as evidenced by one of the protesters referring to Hinduism as an abomination. In the video one can also make out another protesters saying "you shall have no other gods before..." I think the clear implication is that Hinduism is viewed as polytheistic, and identified with the pagan Canaanite religions mentioned in the Old Testament. The problem, in these protesters' eyes, does not seem to be that the prayer is non-Christian, but that it is Hindu.

But maybe I'm misreading this. If so, could anyone tell me how often Jewish prayers in Congress are received like this? Evangelical Christianity's relative passivity toward Judaism surprises me, given that Rabbinical Judaism is the one religion condemned in your scriptures which has survived into modern times.

At least we don't murder and rape Hindus as they murder and rape Christians in India.

Actually you do, if by "we" you mean Christendom. For example, you may not be familiar with the Goa Inquisition, in which the Portugese Catholics actually made their way to Goa, India, and persecuted Hindus by destroying temples, forbidding Hindu holidays, and torturing many Hindus to death. Christian persecution of Hindus in our own homeland is not ancient history by any means. You might Google the National Liberation Front of Tripura. This is a terrorist group supplied by the local Baptist church, which forbids Hindu holidays and goes so far as to murder children.

And unlike America, in India the temples of the majority Hindu religion are taxed, and this money is used to fund minority houses of worship, including churches. Christian holidays such as Holy Week and Christmas are also nationally recognized in India. Can you see an analogous thing happening in America?

 

[Chesterton]

Actually you do, if by "we" you mean Christendom.

I was responding to the previous posts about "Christian America".

 

[Adoniram]

...Why do Christians try to keep debates with Non-Christians at a minimum?

This is something I have always wondered. The obvious example is this forum itself, which only allows one Christian to debate in a thread in this board and bars non-Christians from expressing opinions in GT etc. but this site is not the geatest example of this. You hear day by day that a Christian group wants to censor the opinions of non-Christians, for example when a Hindu cjaplain attempted to pray before the US senate, and deliberately made his message not focus specifically on Hinduism, he was heckled and derided by people quoting the scripture and so forth.

My question, and I do not mean to offend, is this; if Christians feel that their faith in Jesus is so strong why do they seem to fear non-Christians? I mean, would letting a Hindu priest pray be so had, or letting non-Christian debate with you be a chore?

Couple of things-

The Lord instructs us not to argue with unbelievers.

Mt. 7:6
6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

This is out of respect for the gospel and what is holy. Jesus himself did not do miracles for unbelievers (Mt. 13:58). This principle governs how one handles the gospel in the face of those who hate the truth.

In regards to the Hindu priest praying...to whom was he praying? And would you suppose that that "deity" heard him? What is the point of praying to a god that does not exist?

It reminds me of the story of Elijah and the prophets of Baal in 1 Kings 18. Elijah built an altar and had 400 of the prophets of Baal do the same but neither set fire to their altars. Then Elijah told the prophets to ask their god to set fire to their altar. They called upon the name of Baal but nothing happened. Elijah then "mocked them and said, “Cry aloud, for he is a god; either he is meditating, or he is busy, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is sleeping and must be awakened.” (vrs. 27) So they called again, even to the point of mutilating themselves, still without response. Then Elijah prayed to God and God set fire to his altar.

The point being that there is no God but God. There is no worth in the prayers of an unbeliever, be he Hindu or whatever, unless he is praying for forgiveness and salvation from the Lord.

 

[drich0150]

...Why do Christians try to keep debates with Non-Christians at a minimum?

This is something I have always wondered. The obvious example is this forum itself, which only allows one Christian to debate in a thread in this board and bars non-Christians from expressing opinions in GT etc. but this site is not the greatest example of this. You hear day by day that a Christian group wants to censor the opinions of non-Christians, for example when a Hindu chaplain attempted to pray before the US senate, and deliberately made his message not focus specifically on Hinduism, he was heckled and derided by people quoting the scripture and so forth.

My question, and I do not mean to offend, is this; if Christians feel that their faith in Jesus is so strong why do they seem to fear non-Christians? I mean, would letting a Hindu priest pray be so had, or letting non-Christian debate with you be a chore?

Because a fruitless debate is a simple matter of pride. Pride is a sin. When "non-christians" look to just "debate" with Christians without point or purpose it becomes an exercise in pride. Would you have us go against what we believe just so you may have the opportunity to debate?

Why not simply form your issue in a question, and use that question to "Explore Christianity?" Or is it the matter of freely exercising your Pride by wording your efforts any way you wish, the true issue here??? If it is, then can you see why your preferred efforts have been censored? It's one thing to sin and shame yourself, but unfortunately in a place like this the "young" amongest us will have a tendency to follow where it is you want to lead them.

This way if you wish to have a religious discussion, you will have the opportunity channel your efforts to those not so readily swayed by the temptation to fall into a foolish display of posturing or pride. Or, are the "Not easily swayed" the one's you are looking to avoid, in your plee to bring back a format that allows you the opportunity to prowl around looking for someone to devour?

 

[sanjaya1984]

I was responding to the previous posts about "Christian America".

The one about people being fearful of Christianity losing its status of privilege in America's culture? If so, then can I assume you allege that Hindus in India rape and murder Christians so as to maintain Hinduism's status of privilege in India?

Assuming that is the case, I have to wonder what rapes and murders you refer to, and more importantly, what privileged status you refer to. I'm sure you could refer to four or five notable instances of missionary murders at the hands of religious fanatics in India, propagated by evangelical press (the most popular is the case of Graham Staines, if you did not already know). I'm equally confident that with enough investigation, one could theoretically compile an equal quantity of information about mistreatment of Hindus in America. Given that the justice system in India is generally inferior to that in America, I doubt one could establish any targetted mistreatment of Christians that isn't true of minority religious groups in America.

As to the issue of cultural privilege, it would be reasonable to assume that Hinduism should have such a place in India. Hinduism is the ancestral religion of India, it is inextricably bound to India's culture, and is the majority religion of India. Dare I say, Indian Hindus take our religion a bit more seriously than the liberal/atheistic Christians of the West. Despite all this, your assumption would be false. India professes to be a secular democracy and prohibits religious discrimination, going so far as to treat Muslims and Christians as protected minority classes. The attacks on Christians by Hindu zealots are prosecuted. And while other countries with non-Christian majorities are quick to suppress the offensive Christian activity of missionary work, India allows it freely. I am not referring only to Islamic theocracies. Even Israel bans missionary work, yet somehow Jews seem to have gained far more love among evangelicals than Hindus have. I believe your implication that India breeds a culture of violence toward Christians is utterly groundless.