DO NOT WEEP!!!!! The Great City

[LittleLambofJesus]

The need for the Jerusalem below is twofold. First, there is a need for Jerusalem to continue to exist so that the Orthodox Jews can fulfill the scriptures by rebuilding a temple there and restarting the Mosaic animal sacrifices before it for two or three years before the Antichrist stops those sacrifices and sits in the temple and proclaims himself God (Daniel 11:31,36, 9:27; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).
Then, Jerusalem has to continue to exist after that so that
the Antichrist can make one last attack on the Jews
there right before Jesus returns to the earth
(Zechariah 14:2-4).

Second, there is a need for Jerusalem below to
continue to exist so that the returned Jesus can then
fulfill all of the scriptures regarding Jerusalem in
the millennium (e.g. Zechariah 14:8-21, Micah 4:2).

Greetings. That does not make sense. Why would Jesus and God desolate the Judean's Temple/Sanctuary in Jerusalem [as prophecied] just to make it fill some future prophecy?

Luke 19:41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments/eklausen <2799> (5656) on Her, 42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid from thy eyes. 43 That shall be arriving days upon thee, and thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing thee every which place. [Jeremiah 52:4]

Matthew 23:38 Lo, is being left to ye the House of ye a-wilderness/erhmoV <2048>

Reve 18:9 and shall be lamenting and shall be wailing over Her the kings of the land, the ones with her fornicating and indulging, whenever they may be observing the smoke of the fireing of Her

Reve 14:8 And another messenger, second-one, follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I found this interesting. This word for "dust/soil" is used only in these 2 passages.

Mark 6:11 And who soever should not be receiving ye, nor should be hearing of-ye, going out thence, shake off ye! the dust/coun <5522> the underneath thine feet into a testimony to-them. Amen I say unto ye, it shall be more tolerable to-Sodom or Gomorrha in a day of Judgment, then that city". [#5522 used in Revelation 18:19]

Revelation 18:19 And they cast dust/coun <5522> upon their heads, and cried-out, lamenting and mourning, saying, "Woe! Woe! the City, the Great, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of her preciousness! that one hour was Desolated. [#5522 used only in Mark 6:11]

Lamentation 2:10 They are sitting to land they are silent old ones of daughter of Zion they lift up soil on their head, they gird sackcloths, virgins of Jerusalem bow-down to the land their head.

 

[Bible2]

LittleLambofJesus posted in message #21:

Why would Jesus and God desolate the Judean's Temple/
Sanctuary in Jerusalem [as prophecied] just to make
it fill some future prophecy?

[Luke 19:41-43]

[Jeremiah 52:4]

Matthew 23:38 ...

Reve 18:9 ...

Reve 14:8 ...

If no condition is attached to them, God's prophecies
must be fulfilled (e.g. Matthew 26:54, 24:34, Mark
14:49b, Revelation 1:1).

Luke 19:41-44 wasn't fulfilled in 70 AD or any time
since, for the stones of the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem
still stand one on top of the other (contrast Luke
19:44), just as they did when Jesus spoke that
prophecy.

Jeremiah 52:4-5 isn't a prophecy, but an historical
account of something which happened in the 6th century
BC.

Matthew 23:38 could refer to the spiritual desolation
of Jerusalem because of its rejection of Jesus (cf.
1 John 5:12). Matthew 23:39 refers to the future
salvation of all of the unbelieving elect Jews in
Jerusalem who will still be alive at the second
coming, when they see Jesus (Zechariah 12:10-14,
Romans 11:26-29).

Revelation 18:9 and Revelation 14:8 don't refer to
Jerusalem, but to a symbolic city representative of
all of man's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18),
economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation
18:24) systems throughout history (Revelation
17:3,5,10-11).

Jerusalem has never reigned over the kings of the
earth (Revelation 17:18), Jerusalem has never been
the only city in the world to buy merchandise
(Revelation 18:11), and Jerusalem has never been the
only city in the world where martyrs have been killed
(Revelation 18:24).

Indeed, no one literal city has ever, or could ever,
fulfill all three of these things, so "that great
city Babylon" of Revelation 18:10 is not a literal
city, but can be thought of as the so-called "great"
civilization of fallen man.

When God destroys that civilization, it will be found
no more at all (Revelation 18:21), unlike Jerusalem,
which was found again after its only-temporary
destruction in 70 AD.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ahhh, I forgot about this thread.

I believe Luke 19:44 and Reve 14:8 are one and the same event...how bout others here? Thanks

Luke 19:44 and they shall be leveling/edafiousin <1474> (5692)thee and the offspring of thee in thee and not they shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee stead which not thou knew the time of the visitation of thee.

Textus Rec.) Luke 19:44 kai edafiousin se kai ta tekna sou en soi kai ouk afhsousin en soi liqon epi liqw anq wn ouk egnwV ton kairon thV episkophV

1474 edaphizo {ed-af-id'-zo} from 1475;; v
AV - lay even with the ground 1; 1
1) to throw to the ground 1a) both of cities and buildings, to raze, level with the earth 1b) metaph. of men
1475. edaphos ed'-af-os from the base of 1476; a basis (bottom), i.e. the soil:--ground.
1476. hedraios hed-rah'-yos from a derivative of hezomai (to sit); sedentary, i.e. (by implication) immovable:--settled, stedfast.

Reve 14:8 And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "she falls she falls, Babylon the Great, the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations". [Jeremiah 51:8]

 

[Gary777]

Is Jesus indentifying that "Great City" in Revelation in Luke 19:41? If not, why not. Thanks.

Yes, the great city in revelation is the same as in Luke. THe first place the great city is intriducedd in reveletaion it is: "Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. "

This is Jerusalem, that because of its unfaithfulness towards its husband, Jehova, had become even worse than historical Babyon, hence it is "Babylon, mother of harlots". And the great city was destroyed when it was supposed too, as it is written.
To the first century christians Jeruslam was also origin and centre for christianity, but the book of revelation tells us that it is not old jeruslame that is the center, it is the new jerusalem coming down on earth, "our mother", as Paul calls it in gal 4.

 

[Bible2]

LittleLambofJesus posted in message #24 of this thread:

Luke 19:44 and Reve 14:8 are one and the same event

Greetings.

Luke 19:44 and Revelation 17:16 are the same event insofar as
they will happen at the same time in the future, at the very end of
the coming tribulation, right before the second coming of Jesus
Christ, when all of the cities of the world will be destroyed by the
ten kings of the Antichrist empowered by Satan: "That made the
world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof" (Isaiah
14:17); "and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in
remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the
fierceness of his wrath" (Revelation 16:19); "and shall make her
desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire"
(Revelation 17:16); "And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy
children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon
another" (Luke 19:44).

Luke 19:44 and Revelation 17:16 are not the same event insofar as
Luke 19:44 is just a tiny subset of Revelation 17:16; Jerusalem is just
one of the cities which make up the cities of the world, which make
up the symbolic harlot called Babylon. For the symbolic harlot called
Babylon represents all of the corrupt political (Revelation 17:18),
economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation 18:24)
systems of the entire civilization of fallen man, throughout the
earth (Revelation 18:3) and throughout history (Revelation 17:7,9,10).

 

[Bible2]

Gary777 posted in message #25 of this thread:

This is Jerusalem, that because of its unfaithfulness towards its
husband, Jehova, had become even worse than historical Babyon,
hence it is "Babylon, mother of harlots".

Greetings.

Actually, while the corrupt aspects of Jerusalem are certainly included
in what the symbolic harlot called Babylon represents, the corrupt
aspects of Jerusalem just by themselves cannot possibly be all that
the harlot called Babylon represents. For Jerusalem by itself does not
reign over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18), nor is Jerusalem
by itself the only place on the earth where people buy merchandise
(Revelation 18:11). Nor is Jerusalem by itself the only place on the
earth where martyrs have been killed (Revelation 18:24). Nor has
Jerusalem by itself corrupted the entire world (Revelation 18:3). Nor
has Jerusalem been continuously supported by all of the empires of
fallen man throughout history (Revelation 17:7,9,10).

Gary777 posted in message #25 of this thread:

And the great city was destroyed when it was supposed too, as it is
written.

Note that just as all of the cities of the world, in all of their
corruption, have not yet been destroyed (Isaiah 14:17, Revelation
16:19, Revelation 17:16), so Jerusalem has not yet been destroyed
to the extent spoken of in Luke 19:44. For the stones of the Wailing
Wall in Jerusalem still stand one upon another, just as they stood
one upon another back at the time when Jesus spoke Luke 19:44.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

bump for more discussion..........

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Interesting thread

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Interesting thread

At least I thought it was

 

[marlowe007]

wow this is really offensive. Nice talking to you.

Yochanan

Relax, he's a preterist; it's not like he thinks Jerusalem's gonna get vapourised in the future.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Relax, he's a preterist; it's not like he thinks Jerusalem's gonna get vapourised in the future.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7392923/
How much of Matthew 24 is fulfilled

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

wow this is really offensive. Nice talking to you.

Yochanan

What is [oh, sorry I just saw you are a Jew ]

I also have this other thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t7434988/
OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

 

[GuardianShua]

Any large populous would be called "Great City." Rome, Jerusalem, and Babylon are called great cities. The thing about Jerusalem is that it has never been a leader in economics. The height of Jerusalem's economy was during the reign of Solomon, but the prophecies are for after that time.

 

[Jensghost]

Any large populous would be called "Great City." Rome, Jerusalem, and Babylon are called great cities. The thing about Jerusalem is that it has never been a leader in economics. The height of Jerusalem's economy was during the reign of Solomon, but the prophecies are for after that time.

Yes, she killed the martyrs of Jesus and she's still around for the devil-empowered beast to hate her and destroy her in the end. She is Rome. There is a reason that both God and the devil hate the woman and God uses the devil to destroy her.


Rev 17:5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.



Rev 17:16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Any large populous would be called "Great City." Rome, Jerusalem, and Babylon are called great cities. The thing about Jerusalem is that it has never been a leader in economics.

The height of Jerusalem's economy was during the reign of Solomon, but the prophecies are for after that time.

It doesn't appear there is much left of Babylon....

Babylon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

&#1576;&#1575;&#1576;&#1604; A partial view of the ruins of Babylon from Saddam

.

 

[Interplanner]

Babylon is applied to Jerusalem under the misconceptions of Judaism in the 1st century. Paul puts these in the bucket of 'the weak and miserable principles of the world' in Gal 4.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Is Jesus indentifying that "Great City" in Revelation in Luke 19:41? If not, why not. Thanks.

Luke 19:41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments/eklausen <2799> (5656) on Her, 42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid from thy eyes. 43 That shall be arriving days upon thee, and thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/caraka <5482> to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing thee every which place.

Reve 18:19 and they casted dust upon the heads of them, and were crying out, lamenting/klaionteV <2799> (5723) and mourning, saying, "Woe, woe, the City the Great! in which are rich all the ones having the ships in the sea , out of the preciousness of Her to one hour she was desolated"

Thank You for asking

Nope, Jerusalem is not the "Great City". Sometimes "weep" just means "weep" no matter how it's spelled in any language. In Luke 19 Jesus weeps for Jerusalem, in Revelation 16 Jesus will destroy the "Great City" at His Second Coming. The "Great City" will be a Bad Girl, a man eater, only the bad guys will weep for her.


The great city was split into three parts


"Split into three parts" means total destruction. Remember when King David made the Moabite army all lay down on the ground side by side? Then he counted off and killed two thirds and let one third of them live. (2 Samuel 8:2)


a third of the trees were burned up

a third of the sea became blood

a third of the living creatures in the sea died

a third of the ships were destroyed

a third of the rivers and on the springs of water

a third of the waters became wormwood

a third of the sun was struck,

a third of the moon, and

a third of the stars, so that

a third of them were darkened.

a third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.

a third of mankind

In all these examples 2/3s are spared, there's no total destruction. In these cases Divine wrath is mixed with mercy. When the great city gets split into three parts there will be no mercy, the wine of God's wrath is poured out full strength, total destruction of all three thirds.
I bet you think this already happened at the DofJ but when Jesus splits something up into three parts it won't ever come back, it gets blowed up real good.

Just Old Dave talkin through his hat again

Read em and "weep"

Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies.
Farewell and adieu to you ladies of Spain.
For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston.
And so never more shall we see you again.

 

[Rev20]

Jerusalem could very well be included in the figurative "great city" of Revelation 18:19, but so could all the other cities of the world which will be destroyed in the coming tribulation by Lucifer:

"That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof ..." (Isaiah 14:17).

Isaiah 14 is referring to ancient Babylon; and the references to Lucifer are in a proverb directed to the king of Babylon, and his family, the oppressors of the children of Israel:

"That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!" -- Isa 14:4​

Christ used some of that imagery in the Revelation when referring to the oppressive Great harlot and Mother of Harlots: first-century Jerusalem, which he called Babylon the Great.

The great tribulation occurred in the late AD60's, culminating in the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70, along with the destruction of outlying cities of Judaea. The warning of Christ to leave the land of Judaea, and not enter back into it, points to the great tribulation being confined to the land of Judaea. See Matt 24:16, Mark 13:14, and Luke 21:21


.

 

[Rev20]

The need for the Jerusalem below is twofold. First, there is a need for Jerusalem to continue to exist so that the Orthodox Jews can fulfill the scriptures by rebuilding a temple there and restarting the Mosaic animal sacrifices before it for two or three years before the Antichrist stops those sacrifices and sits in the temple and proclaims himself God (Daniel 11:31,36, 9:27; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

There is no third temple mentioned anywhere in the scripture, except for the temple of the body of Christ, defined spiritually in this manner:

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." -- Eph 2:19-22​

Daniel 11:31, 36 is referring to the abominations of Antiochus IV, about 175BC.

Daniel 9:27 is referring to the crucifixion of Christ, when he was "cut-off" out of the land of the living (vs.26) in the middle of the 70th week, at which time the sacrifice and oblation permanently ceased, replaced by the sacrifice of Christ. It is also referring to the abomination of desolation which was the Roman armies arriving on Judean soil.

2 Thess 2:4 was referring to a horrendously evil first-century figure; probably John of Gischala, or Emperor Nero.

Nero fits well. He had power over the known civilization ("all the world" in those days), and he persecuted the saints for three and one-half years, or forty-two months, prior to his suicide:

"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. . . And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." -- Rev 13:5, 7​

Nero was also the sixth in the line of Roman Emperors; and his replacement, Galba, lasted only six months.

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." -- Rev 17:10​

Nero also thought he was a God, and demanded people treat him as God.

That is a lot of coincidences; and there are many more.

The evil deeds of John of Gischala can be found in "Wars of the Jews", by Flavius Josephus.


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