The role of women as wives and mothers

[Rebekka]

God instituted a natural law. When I see women in construction sites, or as police officers, or carpenters, politicians, I see something very "unnatural" in that situation. It just doesn't mend with the femininity god gave woman.

Move to the Netherlands, Creed, we have just the right political party for you, the SGP (they're a calvinist party). They don't want to have female politicians either, no passive voting rights for women. Deep down they don't see the need for active voting rights for women either, actually, as they have to obey their husbands anyway - but it gives the head of the family a double vote (since the wife follows her husband's lead) so they tolerate it.

 

[benedictaoo]

Women are often humbled just for being.

Women should see this as a great sign of the life to come. If we find no exaltation on this earth - the next life we reap the greater merit.

For God choose a woman to be His favored one. And she was humble in life and in Heaven she is reigning Queen.

The humble shall be exalted and the exalted shall be humbled.

As you were. Sorry to break in with philosophical stuff so early.

come again?

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Women are often humbled just for being.

Women should see this as a great sign of the life to come. If we find no exaltation on this earth - the next life we reap the greater merit.

For God choose a woman to be His favored one. And she was humble in life and in Heaven she is reigning Queen.

The humble shall be exalted and the exalted shall be humbled.

As you were. Sorry to break in with philosophical stuff so early.

I believe St. John Chrysostom said that women should always be humble/shamefaced in remberence for the sin of Eve. It was in his homily on the veiling of women I remember I believe. I don't think that is a bad thing since it teaches humility..

 

[WarriorAngel]

I believe St. John Chrysostom said that women should always be humble/shamefaced in remberence for the sin of Eve. It was in his homily on the veiling of women I remember I believe. I don't think that is a bad thing since it teaches humility..

Humility is never bad - and it has its merits in Heaven.

Harder now than later.

 

[WarriorAngel]

come again?

IF men demand women be so - and treat us as such - we should remember this life doesnt matter - for the next life although now being put last - humbled [what not] we may be exalted later in Heaven.

I often think that those who would like for women to be subservient - or even unequal - will surely come to find a good many humbled women in exalted places in Heaven.
So although women are treated with dismay in life - it wont always be so in Heaven.

The Lowly handmaid - a woman, is given the highest rank in Heaven over men from Her Creator... The Queen of Heaven. Not only humbling to women - but should be just as humbling to men.
He didn't chose a man to sit at His right hand, but a woman.

If people dont like women being treated equally, or lifted up for the gifts God gives her, it is a comfort to know the sin of Eve ended with Mary.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Ok, just commenting off the role of women..
Back to the regularly scheduled [and wont be agreed upon] discussion jn yet another abuse thread [?]

God Bless.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Humility is never bad - and it has its merits in Heaven.

Harder now than later.

Warrior Angel, this is so true.

 

[Rebekka]

Humility is never bad - and it has its merits in Heaven.

True, and that goes for men as well. It would do them good to be humble too and to submit themselves to their wives as their wives do to them. That way the spouses will both find themselves in heaven instead of just the humble woman.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

True, and that goes for men as well. It would do them good to be humble too and to submit themselves to their wives as their wives do to them. That way the spouses will both find themselves in heaven instead of just the humble woman.

All those arrogant men, why can't they be humble like women? *sarcasm

I will have you know that men are humble as women are. We are just not women.

 

[Antigone]

All those arrogant men, why can't they be humble like women? (rollseyes)

Way to prove Rebekka's point, though.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Way to prove Rebekka's point, though.

Thanks... I have been accused of worse than arrogant.

 

[Rebekka]

Thanks... I have been accused of worse than arrogant.

I'm not saying you're arrogant - after all, being a stay-at-home homeschooling dad is an act of humility since most people these days see a paid job as a status symbol (I strongly disagree with that attitude). So kudos to you!

But I don't like double standards. Humility is a fine virtue and it suits men as well as women. If women and men have equal dignity, it will harm neither to be humble.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I think all people are or should be humble.
And we are all equal in Heaven.
For there will be women who werent humble, who will be humbled.. and same so for men.

So hey, let's all take an account of ourselves...
Its just a reminder - i myself need to put out there - for myself.

It's hard to be humble... and whatever anyone wants to think of me, so be it. I take it in - because i can only see myself thru other peoples eyes.
Now thats humbling, even tho i stand corrected in not being humble saying so.

I think - Catholic men are the most practiced in seeing women as an equal. Only an observation i have made. I could be wrong. There are some exceptions.
And i see a good many feminists who degrade men. Which is just as bad as those whom they profess against.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I'm not saying you're arrogant - after all, being a stay-at-home homeschooling dad is an act of humility since most people these days see a paid job as a status symbol (I strongly disagree with that attitude). So kudos to you!

But I don't like double standards. Humility is a fine virtue and it suits men as well as women. If women and men have equal dignity, it will harm neither to be humble.

Thanks (again?)

I am strong enough with the reality of our situation that what other people think about me being a stay at home dad does not matter too much. But I have always been a more masculine guy and so it does bother me a little. My wife does not poke fun and no one esle does either. But even if they did, so what.

 

[Rebekka]

Thanks (again?)

I am strong enough with the reality of our situation that what other people think about me being a stay at home dad does not matter too much. But I have always been a more masculine guy and so it does bother me a little. My wife does not poke fun and no one esle does either. But even if they did, so what.

It's good that your kids get a male role model as well. In schools these days most teachers are female, especially in primary school (at least over here but I believe in the US also), and it would be better if more men became teachers, to have a more balanced education, because the male point of view is as important.

 

[benedictaoo]

I believe St. John Chrysostom said that women should always be humble/shamefaced in remberence for the sin of Eve. It was in his homily on the veiling of women I remember I believe. I don't think that is a bad thing since it teaches humility..

We need a "are ya serious?" icon smiley.

 

[benedictaoo]

All those arrogant men, why can't they be humble like women? *sarcasm

I will have you know that men are humble as women are. We are just not women.

You see, here's the thing... the whole alpha man and submissive women deal only works when the man has his head screwed on, at least, half way straight.

Too many men don't and have taken it waaay out of context and uses it as an excuse to justify lots of ungodly behaviors towards women.

Some folks here who post... I can tell that they really do not know the correct understanding of either role, no matter what they try to preach to the masses about it, but I disgreess.

 

[WarriorAngel]

From the multitude of reading up on the roles of men and women and watching EWTN, the woman is pleasing to God if she submits to the husband who is also to submit to the wife. [Ephesians]
But a woman will desire to submit if she is loved.
Love does not insist on it's own way. Therefore; men do not insist if they love their wives. Their love should be so great they would die for their wife.

It all works out if these rules are followed. And an ordered marriage is working along these lines being seen by the world as one spouse is putting the other first - ie - pleasing them - the one being pleased should in turn please the other.

There are unhealthy relationships who do not work this way - and eventually one of the spouses becomes unhappy making the marriage quite difficult. Ergo, a lot of divorces because of bitterness and pain.

 

[helenofbritain]

I don't think a woman should be taking smelly garbage out, that is the mans job..

God instituted a natural law. When I see women in construction sites, or as police officers, or carpenters, politicians, I see something very "unnatural" in that situation. It just doesn't mend with the femininity god gave woman. Just as if you saw men all of a sudden wearing skirts and womens clothing and getting jobs doing makeup on women. It would be unnatural.

The natural law is about the morality or otherwise of humans' actions. Do you mean to say that you find female politicians and male hairdressers immoral? Why? Also I'm curious as to why you chucked politicians in. The other jobs are more "hands on" and I could see why you might not think them womanly - but politics is a talking and consulting job - surely that's right up a female's street?

Here is some of what the Catholic Encyclopedia says about the natural law:

According to St. Thomas, the natural law is "nothing else than the rational creature's participation in the eternal law" (I-II.94). The eternal law is God's wisdom, inasmuch as it is the directive norm of all movement and action. When God willed to give existence to creatures, He willed to ordain and direct them to an end. In the case of inanimate things, this Divine direction is provided for in the nature which God has given to each; in them determinism reigns. Like all the rest of creation, man is destined by God to an end, and receives from Him a direction towards this end. This ordination is of a character in harmony with his free intelligent nature. In virtue of his intelligence and free will, man is master of his conduct. Unlike the things of the mere material world he can vary his action, act, or abstain from action, as he pleases. Yet he is not a lawless being in an ordered universe. In the very constitution of his nature, he too has a law laid down for him, reflecting that ordination and direction of all things, which is the eternal law. The rule, then, which God has prescribed for our conduct, is found in our nature itself. Those actions which conform with its tendencies, lead to our destined end, and are thereby constituted right and morally good; those at variance with our nature are wrong and immoral.

There's nothing there to suggest that particular jobs are hard-wired into our natures.

As you bring up clothing - men in western cultures haven't always worn pants. Fashion has developed over time.

In eastern cultures, for example in India, women have been wearing pants and men have been wearing dresses for time out of mind. Have a look here for women's pants and here for men's "dresses"

If something doesn't fit into your cultural idea of what 'masculine' or 'feminine' is, it is probably not 'wrong' it is just 'different'. For example, your example about your wife carrying the bucket of water and you not being allowed to help. Perfectly normal in Chile. Bad manners in the US. There is nothing inherently feminine about a tube of material worn from the waist. There is nothing inherently masculine about two tubes of sewn together material worn from the waist. Someone's attitude to those garments, and the way they are worn, is what gives them cultural cachet. We make the meaning. The clothes do not.

No, if she has children motherhood is her primary issue. Secondary jobs should be treated as having no bearing on family life. Especially if the husband has a very hard job or labor. If he comes home to an arguing wife complaining about who should take care of who because of her work then that shows that her job is effecting her role in motherhood. This atttitude is actually very common in many marriages in the west and probably contributes to the high divorce rate. The bible says a contentious argumentative wife is poisons to a mans bones. hence if the wife is constantly arguing to her husband about these issues, it spells a recipe for divorce and unhappiness. Philis Shaffly actually goes into great detail about this and how when a wives job takes over her family.

Let me check I understand you correctly. Are you saying that if both husband and wife have been at work all day, when they get home the wife is to look after the kids and cook dinner and clean up without complaint and without help from her husband - because he's been at work all day? Even though she's been at work all day too? Is that what you mean?

A husband should come come to a wife who greets him and helps make him feel at home and loved. Takes off his coat when he comes in. Tell him shes glad to see him. Has food cooked to show that she appreciates him and knows he has worked a hard day. That is the true christian way. Because it shows the reciprocating in the spouses. The husband tells the wife that he is supporting her and willing to protect and sacrifice for her. And the wife shows that she appreciates this and it willing to show her appreciation to her husband for caring an providing for her. Wives who ignore this do not understand the christian tenants of what charity is..A wife should be happy just to see her man home and should always be willing to make his life more comfortable, not UN-comfortable.

OK. What do you think of this quote from St Ambrose?

"You are not her master, but her husband; she was not given to you to be your slave, but your wife.... Reciprocate her attentiveness to you and be grateful to her for her love."

Surely this means that husbands should be equally striving to makes their wives lives comfortable?



I'd still like to hear your thoughts on the original quote I put up? Do you agree with it? Do you disagree? Why?

 

[WarriorAngel]

"You are not her master, but her husband; she was not given to you to be your slave, but your wife.... Reciprocate her attentiveness to you and be grateful to her for her love."