Who cares about the age of the earth, or space?

[miamited]

Does God not love everyone?

No, He doesn't.

God bless you .
In Christ, Ted.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Does God not love everyone?

No, He doesn't.

God bless you .
In Christ, Ted.

You're right Mr. Calvin. Jesus' sacrifice was only for a select few...

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Because I disagree with your interpretation and I doubt I could convince you of any other without outside reasoning. Depends how open you are, but now it seems that outside reasoning wont work because you are more commited to your interpretation which includes an injustice (that salvation is only for humans born of humans) whereas as I would rather say it can be interperted in a way which allows for the wideness and deepness of Gods love.

That is a unitarian statement that has no foundation in the Word of God as applied to the demons/evil spirits of disembodied nephillim.
Satan was never a holy angel nor is he lost nor shall he be "redeemed" by the Atonement, nor does he want any thing other than the Lake of Fire which was "made for him and his satans" -the host of evil spirits in heaven, unholy messengers, who are under him.

Jesus, who is YHWH in the Person of God the Word, come in a second human being created body of flesh, as second "Adam/Man", died for His Kinsmen =Hebrew "Ga'al/Redeemer/Kinsman, which kin of flesh is the one Adam race.

There is no Biblical claim that can be made that He died for demons and satans, nor for any other than the race of Adam -for all souls born in Adam who were written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world.

A human being seed that divides after conception is divided by the spirit of the Adam creation, and that seed can only split because the seed carried the names of more than one soul, written in the Book of Life. It is the Adam spirit that obeys the Creator and guides the multiplying of the ordained Adam seed, who are all named in the Book of Life to come forth in their season.

It is the spirit of Adam, only which can bring forth a soul in its season as ordained in the Book of Life.

If an Adam seed is removed from the loins of a male Adam and is used to fertilize a female Adam egg outside the womb or inside the womb, and implanted in the female Adam womb, to grow; that soul conceived is still from the Adam seed.

Now get this plainly, for the last time: if "science" clones a human being flesh using any other than the Adam seed, from the loins of the male Adam, then that science has created an evil spirit, by genetic manipulation, and that flesh created for an evil spirit to indwell is not of Adam's spirit, for it is not written in the Book of Life.

It is now possible for that to be done -again, as the sons of God taught it to the sons of Adam and their wives before the flood, and also after that; as Enoch, Jasher, the Book of the Giants [in the DSS Bible collection of books], and other ancient writings, all agree.
but the offspring of a human being flesh which is cloned from cells of the body and not from the natural division of the seed, is not of Adam's seed nor of the one Adam spirit, and is not a son of Adam, and is equal to the nephillim got by the fallen sons of God through the daughters born in Adam.


This is not my "opinion", nor am I "interpreting" the Word. I am taking it just as God has given us, from the beginning: each created kind, which is made male and female, is to multiply itself by the seed within itself", and the Adam seed is in the loins of the male, from where all Adam souls are multiplied -in their appointed season.

Now to take science, so called, and try to imitate God's work using His own creation of flesh, is called iniquity and lawlessness, in the Word of God, and the offspring got by that are called "sons of iniquity" -and "bastards", as they are not of Adam's loins, therefore; not sons of Adam.

When God created Adam and formed the spirit of Adam in the flesh body got by taking clay of the earth, He made Adam "male and female", with the "residue of the one Adam spirit", as Malachi 2:15 states. So the male and female Adam are "one spirit", called Adam, and the two, the male and the female, make the "one Adam flesh". Technically, you can say Adam married his "clone", but God's work was holy and He forbids any imitations or any mixing of kinds and any unlawful "science" interfering with His commands of multiplication by the seed of Adam created in the loins of the male Adam.

The fallen sons of God taught the sons of Adam how to "split genes", and mix kinds. The result caused the flood of Noah, for all flesh on earth was corrupted, as Enoch; the Upright Record [the real Book of Jasher]; the Book of Giants; Jubilees; the Torah; and many other ancient records state, even in the "Writings" included in the Tenach -and in Roman and Protestant "Bibles".


I myself have identical twin sons, which are called "clones" in the secular world, but God ordained them to be, from the beginning of the world, when He wrote their names in the Book of Life.

 

[solarwave]

Even a cloned human, which doesn't yet exist, would have to go through gestation and the biological process of becoming "alive". In my opinion that entails having life breathed into them by God. It's not like they are made of plastic or something. They are still living, breathing, individuals unique in their development. The cloning part simply means that they are genetically identical to someone else. It doesn't mean they are a carbon copied robot.

Don't tell me, tell 'yeshuasavedme'

Does God not love everyone?

No, He doesn't.

God bless you .
In Christ, Ted.

Really? Why? Seems to go against the main teachings of the Bible to me. 'For God so loved the world' for a start.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Don't tell me, tell 'yeshuasavedme'

If I thought it would be heard...

 

[solarwave]

yeshuasavedme: You know Im not talking about demons right?

As for scientifically created 'humans' I would ask why salvation would not be open to a being who is pretty much identical to humans, and who could quite easily live a more moral life than some Christians. God doesn't make any of us directly only indirectly, wouldn't you agree? It could also be said that is a human were made through science it would be indirect creation by God.

Anyway I don't think out talking will help either of us.... it seems we speak a different language and find it near impossible to understand why the other believes what they do. Prehaps we are too far apart in how we think to communicate well to each other our opinions.

 

[MoneyGuy]

I enjoy science so I care how old the Earth is. Folks are right that it doesn't affect out salvation so may not be important in that sense, but I don't understand why people aren't interested in this fascinating topic.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I enjoy science so I care how old the Earth is. Folks are right that it doesn't affect out salvation so may not be important in that sense, but I don't understand why people aren't interested in this fascinating topic.

God's Word tells us that the earth is the oldest thing in the created universe! Earth was first, in water -Genesis 1.
No heavens until day 2; no sun, no moon, no stars in the stretched out heavens that were stretched between the divided waters, until day 4.

Earth, being first, is older than the heavens by one 24 hour day!
The stretched out heavens [stretched out from the earth] are older than the sun, moon, and stars, by 2 days!
The earth is older than the sun, moon, and stars in the heavens, by 4 days.

One is not given a "litmus" test on Bible doctrine when they call on the name of Jesus for salvation after hearing the Gospel -that comes after one becomes a "pupa =disciple", "hidden in God with Christ", awaiting the metamorphosis into the glorious image of the Firstborn Son of God.
While in the pupa/disciple/pupil stage, they are intensive students of the doctrine of the Word on all creation matters: Who, what, when, where -and in what order?

 

[jonathan180iq]

Anyway I don't think out talking will help either of us.... it seems we speak a different language and find it near impossible to understand why the other believes what they do. Prehaps we are too far apart in how we think to communicate well to each other our opinions.

It's very hard to reason, even Biblically, when we aren't even using the same Bible...

I mean, you and I, and I would assume even the vast number of YECs don't accept the book of Jasher, Enoch, Book of Giants, or any of the other Apochrypha that has been mentioned in his previous posts...

And since Yeshuasavedme's theology and doctrines and dogmas come from those books, no manner of explanation is going to be good enough for him. If he loves the Lord, which I think he does, and his intentions are honest, which I think they are, then the Lord knows his heart and his ideas about the universe or whatever certainly aren't going to keep him from salvation.

I think it's silly to deny something that is stare-you-in-the-face factual, but that doesn't have any bearing on the man's standing with the Lord.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

yeshuasavedme: You know Im not talking about demons right?

As for scientifically created 'humans' I would ask why salvation would not be open to a being who is pretty much identical to humans, and who could quite easily live a more moral life than some Christians. God doesn't make any of us directly only indirectly, wouldn't you agree? It could also be said that is a human were made through science it would be indirect creation by God.

Anyway I don't think out talking will help either of us.... it seems we speak a different language and find it near impossible to understand why the other believes what they do. Prehaps we are too far apart in how we think to communicate well to each other our opinions.

science cannot create human beings. God made the one Adam human being as male and female persons, with one Adam spirit, with the seed of the sons in the loins of the firstborn Adam male, to multiply the Adam in the womb of the female. No Adam soul can be made outside of the Adam spirit itself, bringing the seed to fruit -even if the seed is taken outside the loins of the Adam and put into the female Adam egg, that is a seed that can only come to fruit by the Adam spirit multiplying Adam in that seed.
That is Bible doctrine, and you can study the Word on what Adam is, and is not, and what the demons who got Adam flesh bodies but who are not Adam spirit in their being.

Any manipulation of the flesh of Adam -any cell manipulated to clone Adam flesh, not from the seed in the loins of the male Adam, used to "clone" the flesh- is not an Adam being, but evil spirit in nature, and is not a creation of God; and any such is called a bastard in Scripture.

The bodies that look human -that is, look like Adam flesh- that are got by fornication with the fallen angels and daughters born in Adam will never rise. And any bodies that look human that are got by any manipulation of any Adam cells in laboratories are not of the Adam spirit and they will not rise.
Only the Adam flesh bodies belonging to Adam souls, multiplied in the Adam spirit by having been already ordained to be seed/sons come to fruit written in the Book of Life, will rise from the dead, for that is who Jesus atoned for. Jesus atoned only for the dead in spirit fallen sons of Adam, and not for the sons of the watchers, who have stolen Adam flesh bodies.
That is what the Word of God teaches.
No manipulation in the laboratory using any other than the male Adam seed to fertilize and female Adam egg can be done to bring forth a multiplied Adam soul.

If the souls are not of the one Adam spirit, then the souls are not atoned for, and will not rise -says the Word of God.

Why do you not go study the Word of God to see what He said about it?
Manipulation to "make" a "human being", in the laboratory was what the fallen sons of God taught to the sons of Adam, and the Word says all flesh on earth -of all kinds- was "corrupted" by that "science".

It is, perhaps, being done today, again, in the labs -that is what the NAZI science was attempting to do, BTW, with their genetic manipulation; and no! the product of such manipulation is no more a candidate for redemption than the first such were, before the flood!

There is no resurrection for the human appearing laboratory created and genetically manipulated flesh of evil spirits. Not now, not yesterday, not tomorrow! They do not get the dead bodies of flesh back, in the resurrection of the wicked. They simply go from Sheol below, to the Lake of Fire "out", on the day of judgment.
Isa 26:14 [They are] dead, they shall not live; [they are] deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
The cutting of roots taught to the sons of Adam =gene splicing and genetic manipulation, in the Book of Enoch. Because of it, all flesh was corrupted on earth: Adam, birds, beasts, reptiles, and fish.
5And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish
The Book of Enoch
Enoch 7:5 5And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish

Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had [been]corrupted [in his] way upon the earth.

 

[miamited]

Hello Solarwave,

You wrote:

Really? Why? Seems to go against the main teachings of the Bible to me. 'For God so loved the world' for a start.

No, it doesn't. You have to complete the statement. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosover believeth in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Friend, those who don't believe remain under the wrath of God. God does love the whole world so far as that love is accounted as 'caring for'. But individually, God loves those who love Him. It's the way it has always been since the beginning. This is why unbelievers are unable to see how God would destroy whole civilizations. They think that God loves everybody. No He doesn't. Look at the account of the flood, God was so greived that He had made mankind because they were always, in everything, full of sinfulness and wickedness and so He destroyed them. Look at Sodom and Gomorrah. Even Abraham challenged God to spare the two cities of the plain if there were any righteous living there. Abraham wittled God down to 10 righteous people in the whole city and it would seem that God was unable to find the requisite 10. God loves those who love Him. The Scriptures teach this clearly.

Even Jesus, speaking to the Jews accused them of being children of Satan. God doesn't love the children of Satan. However, His love is available to the whole world. Jacob I loved, Esau I hated. God does not love the unrighteous, but He will be merciful to them if they repent and return to Him. Otherwise, they perish apart from God's love.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[miamited]

Hello again Solarwave,

This new direction is off topic, so if you'd like to discuss further we can begin a new thread or even share PM.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[jonathan180iq]

....If God didn't love the whole world, the option for salvation wouldn't even exist. Jesus wouldn't have ever come. So, yes. God does love everyone.

Punishment and wrath do not mean that God doesn't love. It's just a deserved punishment for the unfaithful and unrighteous. I can punish my son for doing wrong but that doesn't mean I don't love him. Surely you see that.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

It's very hard to reason, even Biblically, when we aren't even using the same Bible...

I mean, you and I, and I would assume even the vast number of YECs don't accept the book of Jasher, Enoch, Book of Giants, or any of the other Apochrypha that has been mentioned in his previous posts...

And since Yeshuasavedme's theology and doctrines and dogmas come from those books, no manner of explanation is going to be good enough for him. If he loves the Lord, which I think he does, and his intentions are honest, which I think they are, then the Lord knows his heart and his ideas about the universe or whatever certainly aren't going to keep him from salvation.
I think it's silly to deny something that is stare-you-in-the-face factual, but that doesn't have any bearing on the man's standing with the Lord.

I'm a she, a mother, a grandma, a wife, and a lover of the Word of God for 47 years, as of last month.

The Bible includes Torah, Prophets, and Writings. Enoch is a Prophet, the seventh from Adam, who first had the Testimony of Jesus; and he speaks to John in Revelation:
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See [thou do it] not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Enoch is in the Etniopian Christian Bible, as it has been from the beginning of the Gospel's reception in Ethiopia, by Jews who had and believed the Book of Enoch as inspired writing, and who never followed Christ rejecting Jews of the first century and banned it, nor did they follow Rome, who banned it in the fourth century.

Enoch was in the Bible =collection of books- used in the home of Jesus Christ, as His mother, and His womb brothers who left writings all quote it, as He did, and Jesus called it "Scripture" -as in sacred writing, when He rebuked the Sadducees for not knowing the doctrines in Enoch on the resurrected saints not marrying in heaven and being equal with the angels in heaven, who do not marry nor give in marriage.

Since Jesus used Enoch to preach His Gospel from, about Himself as the Son of Man in heaven, whom only Enoch saw, hidden in God, who was God, who was the mystery, who was to come, and since Jesus preached His Gospel using the doctrines laid only in Enoch as foundational doctrines on His Person, and His work, and on the Lake of Fire, Sheol below earth, the origin of demons, the millennial reign, the regeneration of the heavens and the earth, and the City of God and the resurrection, and the judgment of the righteous and the wicked; then I am in good company, and also in the company of the apostle to the Gentiles, Barnabas, who had been one of the 70 disciples of Jesus, who also left a letter calling Enoch Scripture, as in inspired.

Now why do western professing Christians practice the heresy of denying what Jesus Himself, taught, about Enoch? Who are they following to deny Enoch? -certainly not following Jesus or His Apostles or disciples who all wrote of Enoch's revealed doctrines on all foundational teachings about Christ and His work.

And Jasher, a history that is true and upright, is included in the writings of the ancients, which is a redacted version of the history of the world through the patriarchs, and a longer one of Moses' own history, and includes the history and chronology of the world from Adam to Joshua going into the promised land; after which the histories/writings continues through the line of the "elect" -the chosen line for the adoption into the name of the New Man [which name is Israel, not Adam, and which was given to Jacob as a sign of the adoption to come].

 

[jonathan180iq]

science cannot create human beings. God made the one Adam human being as male and female persons, with one Adam spirit, with the seed of the sons in the loins of the firstborn Adam male, to multiply the Adam in the womb of the female. No Adam soul can be made outside of the Adam spirit itself, bringing the seed to fruit -even if the seed is taken outside the loins of the Adam and put into the female Adam egg, that is a seed that can only come to fruit by the Adam spirit multiplying Adam in that seed.....

Are you talking about cloning or artificial insemination?

 

[jonathan180iq]

I'm a she, a mother, a grandma, a wife, and a lover of the Word of God for 47 years, as of last month.

My apologies. I don't see a sex symbol beside your username and just made an assumption.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

....If God didn't love the whole world, the option for salvation wouldn't even exist. Jesus wouldn't have ever come. So, yes. God does love everyone.

Punishment and wrath do not mean that God doesn't love. It's just a deserved punishment for the unfaithful and unrighteous. I can punish my son for doing wrong but that doesn't mean I don't love him. Surely you see that.

The Atonement is not for the bastards who are named as sons of the fallen watchers. They are "tares" and are not redeemable, and yes, they walked the earth and thought to take it over, and there is still the plan to do so, in that the son of perdition is another one of them. There is no such a thing for the Atonement covering the wicked souls who are not of Adam -such as Goliath and King Og, for instance, after the flood, who both hail from the watchers, and not from Adam.

Jesus never planned salvation for Goliath or his brothers, their fathers, their uncles, their cousins, or their children, nor for any root or branch of the fallen sons of the Watchers, the nephillim, who are the dead/rapha who will not rise.

Adam souls will rise from the dead in the bodies assigned to each soul by the Adam spirit, who built the body in the wombs. They will rise either in the regenerated forms of the Son of God, or in the unregenerated form of the undying "Adam" worm, which shall never, ever die, but will forever be "dead" in the Lake of Fire.
That is what the Word teaches us about the bodies of Adam and the bodies of the "tares", that look like Adam, but are not Adam in spirit.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

My apologies. I don't see a sex symbol beside your username and just made an assumption.

No problem, just thought to clear it up.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Are you talking about cloning or artificial insemination?

Go back to my post where I said I would not repeat it. -Do you not read my posts?
I clearly stated that a a male Adam seed impregnating a female Adam egg is multiplied only by the Adam spirit into a fruit of the Adam, for it is from Adam.

Whether it is removed from the male loins to fertilize the female Adam egg in the womb or out of the womb, but then implanted in the womb; if it is the seed of the male Adam from the loins of Adam impregnating the egg of the female Adam, it is only doing, in impregnating to build the body for the soul, what the Adam spirit is commanded to do -and the soul is of Adam. I clearly said that an identical twin is a natural -of Adam- clone, having been written in the Book of Life to come forth in its season -as my twin sons are.

I also stated that the cloning of flesh by "genetic manipulation" is a lawless deed, in God's word, and that is what the sons of God taught to the sons of Adam before the flood.

Any laboratory cloning using any cell of any Adam flesh, and not the male Adam seed from the loins of the male Adam, does not produce an Adam soul by the Adam spirit, for that one is not written in the Book of Life to come forth as an Adam seed =son of Adam.
There were lots of cloned flesh beings before the flood and after the flood. They are not Adam in spirit, and they are not redeemable.
Only those from Adam are redeemable by the blood of the Kinsman.
Jesus did not come as kin to the fallen Watchers. He did not take upon Himself the nature of the angels who sinned.

Hbr 2:16 For verily he took not on [him the nature of] angels; but he took on [him] the seed of Abraham.

 

[miamited]

Hi Jonathon,

You wrote:

....If God didn't love the whole world, the option for salvation wouldn't even exist. Jesus wouldn't have ever come. So, yes. God does love everyone.

Let's see, David understood that the Lord hates wicked people.

You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wickedhttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-7 cannot dwell. The arroganthttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-8 cannot standhttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-9 in your presence; you hatehttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-10 all who do wrong. You destroy those who tell lies;http://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-11 bloodthirsty and deceitful men the LORD abhors.

Jeremiah understood that God hates wicked people:

My inheritance has become to me like a lionhttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-21 in the forest. She roars at me; therefore I hate her.

God told Hosea that He hated the people of Israel:

"Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there. Because of their sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house. I will no longer love them; all their leaders are rebellious.

And finally crossing over to the New Testament, Paul understood that God could hate people:

"Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

You are welcome to go with what you want to believe, but there is ample proof that God is capable of righteous hate against wicked people. His love is absolutely available for everyone, but He has always hated wickedness and those who practice it.

God bless you .
In Christ, Ted.