Who cares about the age of the earth, or space?

[ivebeenshown]

I feel like I can see where the world is headed. And I do believe it is headed there in my lifetime. And this is not a Jehovah's Witnesses 2012 scheme, this is based off of what we know is in the bible. Look at the world around us, what's happening to the global economy, the sterilized food supplies, the lifestyles of the general population of earth.

God created the HEAVEN and the EARTH.

We were given the earth, not the heaven. So who cares about space? Who can believe in the bible and really care about it? By my faith in Christ, God created life on earth and on the seventh day rested, and that was all the creating he did.

No new matter is created in this universe. This is known, not by a thermodynamic law, but by knowledge of God as the sole creator. We can only 'form' things, even if we call it 'creating'.

God put the celestial bodies up there for us to view. They are for signs, times, seasons, etc. God is going to burn this place up before we know it and we will never get to populate any other lump of dust in the sky.

So seeing how space exploration does not do a single thing to actually benefit any of us, and the spread of such wicked 'science' (it's okay to eat food made with strange chemicals, and we came from apes, and sexual preference is inborn, and computers 'increase productivity' which just means they allow bosses to make more money) is STERILIZING and STUPEFYING the human race, why should I care about space exploration?

Why should I even believe in the heliocentric model? Why should I believe the earth is super-old? All I see are a bunch of fancy models and diagrams and terms that don't really even benefit me in any way.

I wish I would have been raised a farm boy or a Cherokee. I wish I could live off of the land and provide for myself and my family. What am I supposed to do when this comes crashing down around us? And the mark of the beast forces us to forage in the wilderness? Would we be prepared?

If we know this world is coming to its end and the return of Christ is always to be considered night at hand, and if we even pay any attention to the signs around us, I think it becomes very clear that the sun really does have a circuit around the earth. God is not going to inspire his prophets with lies, but the devil is going to lie to us always.

Why would God tell us the sun has a circuit? Why would God tell us the world was made in six mornings and six evenings? Why would God have made the sun go backwards ten degrees one time as a sign? Why tells us these things if it is "impossible for God to lie"?

If the earth was rotating around the sun, the sudden shift backwards would have really messed up everything on earth at the speeds it supposedly 'hurtles'. And then to do it *again* after a 10 degree movement? Is God going to lie through his prophets about the sun having a circuit, and let us assume that he decided to hold everything securely to the earth while the Sun merely appeared moved back ten degrees?

Think about it: are we trying to make ourselves appear 'rational' for the secular folks or are we trying to preserve the law and the prophets, which testify of our beloved LORD Christ? What do the secular people tell us?

Romans 3
4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

I care about the age of the earth and space. And I care what is written about these things in the law and prophets. Do you?

 

[mark kennedy]

I've felt for some time that the age of the universe and the earth were beside the point. My thing has long been human evolution and the assumed lineage from apes seems like such a stretch that it's hard to take it seriously anymore. The time factor isn't really even that big of an issue since God could have created the heavens and the earth and then created life on this planet after a massive overhaul of the environment which is what I honestly think Genesis is describing.

I mean, so what if the earth is millions or billions of years old, life isn't.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Monarchist]

I feel like I can see where the world is headed. And I do believe it is headed there in my lifetime. And this is not a Jehovah's Witnesses 2012 scheme, this is based off of what we know is in the bible. Look at the world around us, what's happening to the global economy, the sterilized food supplies, the lifestyles of the general population of earth.

God created the HEAVEN and the EARTH.

We were given the earth, not the heaven. So who cares about space? Who can believe in the bible and really care about it? By my faith in Christ, God created life on earth and on the seventh day rested, and that was all the creating he did.

No new matter is created in this universe. This is known, not by a thermodynamic law, but by knowledge of God as the sole creator. We can only 'form' things, even if we call it 'creating'.

God put the celestial bodies up there for us to view. They are for signs, times, seasons, etc. God is going to burn this place up before we know it and we will never get to populate any other lump of dust in the sky.

So seeing how space exploration does not do a single thing to actually benefit any of us, and the spread of such wicked 'science' (it's okay to eat food made with strange chemicals, and we came from apes, and sexual preference is inborn, and computers 'increase productivity' which just means they allow bosses to make more money) is STERILIZING and STUPEFYING the human race, why should I care about space exploration?

Why should I even believe in the heliocentric model? Why should I believe the earth is super-old? All I see are a bunch of fancy models and diagrams and terms that don't really even benefit me in any way.

I wish I would have been raised a farm boy or a Cherokee. I wish I could live off of the land and provide for myself and my family. What am I supposed to do when this comes crashing down around us? And the mark of the beast forces us to forage in the wilderness? Would we be prepared?

If we know this world is coming to its end and the return of Christ is always to be considered night at hand, and if we even pay any attention to the signs around us, I think it becomes very clear that the sun really does have a circuit around the earth. God is not going to inspire his prophets with lies, but the devil is going to lie to us always.

Why would God tell us the sun has a circuit? Why would God tell us the world was made in six mornings and six evenings? Why would God have made the sun go backwards ten degrees one time as a sign? Why tells us these things if it is "impossible for God to lie"?

If the earth was rotating around the sun, the sudden shift backwards would have really messed up everything on earth at the speeds it supposedly 'hurtles'. And then to do it *again* after a 10 degree movement? Is God going to lie through his prophets about the sun having a circuit, and let us assume that he decided to hold everything securely to the earth while the Sun merely appeared moved back ten degrees?

Think about it: are we trying to make ourselves appear 'rational' for the secular folks or are we trying to preserve the law and the prophets, which testify of our beloved LORD Christ? What do the secular people tell us?

Romans 3
4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

I care about the age of the earth and space. And I care what is written about these things in the law and prophets. Do you?

Yeah thats a fairly simple philosophy
I have always considered that that was enough
I can believe mans faith in science or my faith in Gods word. Man hasnt really ever got his act together, ever.
I will stick to Gods word even if its in English. My God wouldnt have let anyone get the translation wrong. We call him God for a reason.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I feel like I can see where the world is headed. And I do believe it is headed there in my lifetime. And this is not a Jehovah's Witnesses 2012 scheme, this is based off of what we know is in the bible. Look at the world around us, what's happening to the global economy, the sterilized food supplies, the lifestyles of the general population of earth.

How would you have felt during times of plague or decades long war that actually required sacrifice from the citizens of said nation? I think it's easy to see the bad in the world and get emotional feelings about how and when and why it's going to end. But if that's what you truly believe, then you should be spending every second of the day helping to win over souls for Christ... We all should.

We were given the earth, not the heaven. So who cares about space? Who can believe in the bible and really care about it? By my faith in Christ, God created life on earth and on the seventh day rested, and that was all the creating he did.

Well, since all of creation shows the glory and awesomeness of God and is evidence of his hand, I think the study of that creation is just another way to pay homage to how radically huge and magnificent God is.

God put the celestial bodies up there for us to view. They are for signs, times, seasons, etc. God is going to burn this place up before we know it and we will never get to populate any other lump of dust in the sky.

If a tree falls in the wood but no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? Stuff is going on all the time in the universe that we simply are not privy to. That doesn't mean that nothing is happening outside our point of view...

So seeing how space exploration does not do a single thing to actually benefit any of us, and the spread of such wicked 'science' (it's okay to eat food made with strange chemicals, and we came from apes, and sexual preference is inborn, and computers 'increase productivity' which just means they allow bosses to make more money) is STERILIZING and STUPEFYING the human race, why should I care about space exploration?

You should probably read up on what new types of medications are being developed, and can only be developed, in zero gravity settings. You don't have to have an interest in space. But that doesn't mean that no one else is allowed to have that interest.

Why should I even believe in the heliocentric model? Why should I believe the earth is super-old? All I see are a bunch of fancy models and diagrams and terms that don't really even benefit me in any way.

If you had grown up a farmer, you may have come to more appreciate the changing of the seasons and the whole interconnectedness of man with his environment (like seasons and tidal surges...) Again, just because something "seems" complicated doesn't make it any less true. Studying the way that God created things and how he made them work is just as important as realizing that God created them.

I wish I would have been raised a farm boy or a Cherokee. I wish I could live off of the land and provide for myself and my family. What am I supposed to do when this comes crashing down around us? And the mark of the beast forces us to forage in the wilderness? Would we be prepared?

Native Americans were mostly pagan. And those that did decide to convert to Christianity still were not fully accepted by the majority of the white Christian population and they were persecuted to their end... Anyway providing for our families won't be much an issue if the world is about you end, right? It doesn't take too long to adjust to new surroundings and learn what things are edible and what things aren't. Like they say, necessity if the mother of invention.

If we know this world is coming to its end and the return of Christ is always to be considered night at hand, and if we even pay any attention to the signs around us, I think it becomes very clear that the sun really does have a circuit around the earth. God is not going to inspire his prophets with lies, but the devil is going to lie to us always.

Why would God tell us the sun has a circuit? Why would God tell us the world was made in six mornings and six evenings? Why would God have made the sun go backwards ten degrees one time as a sign? Why tells us these things if it is "impossible for God to lie"?

Perhaps these pages of scripture were written for a people who had no modern understanding of the physical operation of the universe and they were written more to make a point that God created all of the these things, instead of God necessarily dictating exactly how things work. We often make the mistake of applying modern readings to ancient contexts. Any supposed errors in doing so are the mistake of the reader, not the text.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Perhaps these pages of scripture were written for a people who had no modern understanding of the physical operation of the universe and they were written more to make a point that God created all of the these things, instead of God necessarily dictating exactly how things work. We often make the mistake of applying modern readings to ancient contexts. Any supposed errors in doing so are the mistake of the reader, not the text.

If we start with Genesis 1 as a big metaphor whose chronologically ordered events don't even apply because of what 'science' tells us then we're going to end up with the whole bible as being a 'generic moral guide that is one big metaphor'. And before we know it, 'science' is going to find some way to prolong human life and promise 'immortality'.

That's the thing about science... what does it do for Christ? Has the thought of the earth moving around the sun brought anyone to Christ?

I think I really need to get off of the internet for good and live a simpler kind of life. This world is hurting my soul, I want to come out of it.

 

[jonathan180iq]

If we start with Genesis 1 as a big metaphor whose chronologically ordered events don't even apply because of what 'science' tells us then we're going to end up with the whole bible as being a 'generic moral guide that is one big metaphor'. And before we know it, 'science' is going to find some way to prolong human life and promise 'immortality'.

That's the thing about science... what does it do for Christ? Has the thought of the earth moving around the sun brought anyone to Christ?

I think I really need to get off of the internet for good and live a simpler kind of life. This world is hurting my soul, I want to come out of it.

To Clarify, I'm not making the Bible into a giant book of parables. There is obviously some rock solid, historically accurate History involved. (...physical History (Archaeology) is a science. So I guess the science which verifies the Bible is bad too, in your opinion?) But there is also some metaphorically written sections purposed to teach spirutal truths about God and humanity.

Since the Bible refers to the Earth has having 4 corners spread out like a sheet, and the heavens are simply suspended above the Earth, does that mean the Bible states that the Earth is flat, or is there a problem with our interpretation? Since science shows us how the Earth is a sphere, (You can physically hop in a plane and go high enough to see the bend in the horizon and then there are the millions of photos actually taken of the Earth from space) are we to side with a certain interpretation of the Bible, or are we supposed to side with what we know to be fact? Truth is truth. Interpretations are known to be flawed.

How do we know the sun to be the center of the solar system?
Have you ever made an international phone call or watched satellite TV? The same principles and forces that keep those satellites "floating" around the Earth are exactly the same as the one which keep the Earth "floating" around the sun.

...the very computer that you are typing on, which allows people from all over the world to communicate thoughts on Christ and fellowship (and sometimes rebuke each other) was provided by the evil thing you call "science".

You don't have to look at these things as being mutually exclusive. It's not "science" vs. Religion. Science is nothing more than the study of the physical world. And since the physical world was created by God, science is simply a way to study God's creation.

Now, seclusion and solidtude from certain aspects of modern life are not bad things. They certainly have their benefits. But the expansion of knowledge is not always bad either. Our job, as believers in Christ, is to spread the message of the Gospel to the "four corners of the Earth". To do that, we need some reference points so we can relate to people. How can a recluse witness to a scientist? Will the scientist understand the recluse's point of view? People are prepared to share like minded people.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...

Since the Bible refers to the Earth has having 4 corners spread out like a sheet, ...

Where?
What Bible states that?
Define "corner", as it is used in the OT.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

T

How do we know the sun to be the center of the solar system?.

Where did you get that knowledge? Not from God's Word! -so where did you get it, and why do you reject the Word of God and accept the contradiction of it?
The wisdom of the Word of God says, without apology, that the sun rises and sets continuously, without ceasing, over the globe/tebel, the world, running his race in his highway/course/path in the heavens, which was ordained for him from the 4th day of creation week, and running it -revolving- around the fixed in place, never moving earth.

 

[Chris81]

Where did you get that knowledge? Not from God's Word! -so where did you get it, and why do you reject the Word of God and accept the contradiction of it?
The wisdom of the Word of God says, without apology, that the sun rises and sets continuously, without ceasing, over the globe/tebel, the world, running his race in his highway/course/path in the heavens, which was ordained for him from the 4th day of creation week, and running it -revolving- around the fixed in place, never moving earth.

Are you serious in your belief of a geocentric view of the universe? Even, most YEC now believe that the earth revolves around the sun. If you are going to take everything the bible says literally regardless to genre and historical context you might as well believe the world is flat! below are some verses for your reading pleasure.


Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Are you serious in your belief of a geocentric view of the universe? Even, most YEC now believe that the earth revolves around the sun. If you are going to take everything the bible says literally regardless to genre and historical context you might as well believe the world is flat! below are some verses for your reading pleasure.


Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

define "corners/ends".


kanaph [from covering over]

Click Here for the Rest of the Entry

AV — wing 74, skirt 14, borders 2, corners 2, ends 2, feathered 2, sort 2, winged 2, misc 8

 

[Chris81]

define "corners/ends".


kanaph [from covering over]AV — wing 74, skirt 14, borders 2, corners 2, ends 2, feathered 2, sort 2, winged 2, misc 8

Unfortunately I was not able to open your link. None the less, are you saying that in the case of these verses you do not take the bible literally? How do you interpret these verses?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS/'ephec OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

define "'ephec /ends"
AV — ends 13, no 4, none 3, not 3, nothing 2, without 2, else 2, beside 1, but 1, cause 1, howbeit 1, misc. 10

Click Here for the Rest of the Entry

And in Daniel 4, Necbuchadnezzar ruled as king of kings over all the earth -the entire globe was under his dominion as the first king of kings of earth, whereever man, beast, or fowl dwelt, Nebuchadnezzar ruled over the kings -who ruled the kings -who ruled the kings -in all the colonies of the globe, and that includes the western continents and all Asia and Australia, and any land or island on the globe where man, beast, or fowl dwelt. The Olmecs -of what is now called Mexico- were declining at that t ime from their heighth of glory, and were under the dominion of Nebuchadnezzar; for Olmecs were men, with beasts, and fowls in their land, around the globe from Babylon, and they were under Nebuchadnezzar, so the ends of the earth were the extremities.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Unfortunately I was not able to open your link. None the less, are you saying that in the case of these verses you do not take the bible literally? How do you interpret these verses?

I fixed the link. It is to the Lexicon entry. I take it literally when it is literal. It does not need interpretation, just look at the original meanings and usages of the words. There is no "right angle" flat earth in the Bible , just a fixed in its place globe/tebel, with the heavens revolving around it, daily, and the sun, moon and stars in their ordained paths/highways/courses withing the heavens.

 

[Chris81]

define "'ephec /ends"
AV — ends 13, no 4, none 3, not 3, nothing 2, without 2, else 2, beside 1, but 1, cause 1, howbeit 1, misc. 10


And in Daniel 4, Necbuchadnezzar ruled as king of kings over all the earth -the entire globe was under his dominion as the first king of kings of earth, whereever man, beast, or fowl dwelt, Nebuchadnezzar ruled over the kings -who ruled the kings -who ruled the kings -in all the colonies of the globe, and that includes the western continents and all Asia and Australia, and any land or island on the globe where man, beast, or fowl dwelt. The Olmecs -of what is now called Mexico- were declining at that t ime from their heighth of glory, and were under the dominion of Nebuchadnezzar; for Olmecs were men, with beasts, and fowls in their land, around the globe from Babylon, and they were under Nebuchadnezzar, so the ends of the earth were the extremities.

What translation of the bible are you reading in which the word 'globe' is used in Daniel chapter 4? I went through about 10 different translations of the bible and I found none that used the word 'globe'.

 

[solarwave]

If we start with Genesis 1 as a big metaphor whose chronologically ordered events don't even apply because of what 'science' tells us then we're going to end up with the whole bible as being a 'generic moral guide that is one big metaphor'. And before we know it, 'science' is going to find some way to prolong human life and promise 'immortality'.

That's the thing about science... what does it do for Christ? Has the thought of the earth moving around the sun brought anyone to Christ?

You have a really negative view of science and the good it does for humans. Would you have go back to a time before modern medicine where life was full or much more death and pain?

The laws of physics are beautiful things and can lead people to give glory to God for how amazing He is.

 

[ivebeenshown]

You have a really negative view of science and the good it does for humans. Would you have go back to a time before modern medicine where life was full or much more death and pain?

The laws of physics are beautiful things and can lead people to give glory to God for how amazing He is.

At what cost? I bet scientific developments have led more astray from Christ than they have led to Christ. Many television channels are channels for evil spirits. Many internet sites are the site of brewing demonic activity.

This is what I see... I know that when I jump, I will come down. Or if I throw something into the air with my arm, it is more than likely to come down. That is simple. When we put the theory of physics into it, we build line upon line and precept upon precept when the truth is, there is a lot more going on when a person jumps than a simple parabolic formula. A person is infinitely complex. We strive to see cells, then proteins, molecules, atoms, protons, then quarks... protoquarks? Subquarks? Whatever. Now they're winding up with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_everything
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory

When does it end? We can't understand the infinite mechanics of this universe -- only God knows them. We can only know absolute truths, and the word of God is the truth. We can't define dark matter into categories and rules. It is simply darkness. The universe is more complex than we can even imagine, yet people spend so much time trying to find some 'answer' when we have the answer in Genesis: God gave man dominion over the earth, not the heavens.

I feel that faith has been poisoned on a large scale, and I must undergo a fast very soon to 'sweat out' a lot of things, so to speak. I don't know what to do, I probably ought to pray a lot more than I do, huh...

 

[jonathan180iq]

Where did you get that knowledge? Not from God's Word! -so where did you get it, and why do you reject the Word of God and accept the contradiction of it?
The wisdom of the Word of God says, without apology, that the sun rises and sets continuously, without ceasing, over the globe/tebel, the world, running his race in his highway/course/path in the heavens, which was ordained for him from the 4th day of creation week, and running it -revolving- around the fixed in place, never moving earth.

.....are you serious?

 

[ivebeenshown]

Are you serious in your belief of a geocentric view of the universe? Even, most YEC now believe that the earth revolves around the sun. If you are going to take everything the bible says literally regardless to genre and historical context you might as well believe the world is flat! below are some verses for your reading pleasure.

I am very serious. They keep trying to dive deeper and deeper into quantum mechanics but they are infinitely complex to the degree that no man can find God just by looking deeper into those weird symbols and equations.

The bible does not say the world is flat. A sphere has no ends or corners.

Isaiah 40:22 says he hangs the circle of the earth on nothing. The word used is chuwg (2329) which is also used in this verse:

14Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit (2329) of heaven.

.....are you serious?

I don't want to speak for another but I am.

Did the Hebrews think the heaven was a flat circle? Did the Hebrews even know what a sphere or even a dome-like object was? Why don't the words 'globe', 'sphere', or 'dome' appear?

 

[Chris81]

I fixed the link. It is to the Lexicon entry. I take it literally when it is literal. It does not need interpretation, just look at the original meanings and usages of the words. There is no "right angle" flat earth in the Bible , just a fixed in its place globe/tebel, with the heavens revolving around it, daily, and the sun, moon and stars in their ordained paths/highways/courses withing the heavens.

What then do you believe the author meant to convey in the passages describing the earth with four corners and ends? If you understand them to convey events in the bible that entails the entirely of the earth, then I would agree. However, you are still understanding the text within the historical context of the passage as well as the author's literary style. Why do you not interpret passages describing the earth as motionless in the same understanding of its broader meaning that you have done with passages that seem to describe the earth as flat?

While you and I may understand the broader context of the flat earth passages, it is also very likely that the author wrote from the perspective of his time with an understanding that the earth is flat. Hence the author describes the earth with edges and corners instead of a sphere or a globe. We living in modern times now have the benefit of knowing that the earth is spherical rather than flat so we know to interpret these passages not as a flat earth but rather as an understanding of the entirety of the earth.

I am perplexed as to how you still believe that the earth is fixed in space with all of the universe rotating around its center. This is rather like science 101, the earth does not have a large enough gravitational pull to cause the sun, all the planets, and all the stars to orbit around the earth. Additionally, Galileo understood that the earth could not be the center of the universe by merely observing and tracking the orbits of the planets and he did with out any knowledge of gravity.

The larger issue is that nearly everyone is in consensus that the earth orbits around the sun. Even the most conservative Young Earth Creationist believe the earth orbits around the sun. How have you come to interpret the bible in such a way that it requires that one affirm a geocentric view of the universe?

 

[Chris81]

I am very serious. They keep trying to dive deeper and deeper into quantum mechanics but they are infinitely complex to the degree that no man can find God just by looking deeper into those weird symbols and equations.

The bible does not say the world is flat. A sphere has no ends or corners.

If you say that the bible does not describe the earth as flat then how do you interpret the passages in the bible that I had provided in an earlier post? What was the author intending to convey in those passages?

Isaiah 40:22 says he hangs the circle of the earth on nothing. The word used is chuwg (2329) which is also used in this verse:

14Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit (2329) of heaven.



I don't want to speak for another but I am.

Did the Hebrews think the heaven was a flat circle? Did the Hebrews even know what a sphere or even a dome-like object was? Why don't the words 'globe', 'sphere', or 'dome' appear?

Good questions, I would say that the authors did not have any knowledge that the earth was a globe so they wrote with the understanding that the world was flat.