Isn't this site supposed to be helpful

[clep]

I am finding myself disgusted with many of the "Christian" people on this site.

My mother was severely abused by my father for 23 years as was I and my two sisters. We were beaten almost daily and raped multiple times. My mother stayed as she was directed to by her church. After the prayers were unanswered and rightly so, as my father was acting of his free will which God does not intervene in, she finally decided to separate.

She divorced him very soon after to cut all ties as the creditors were going after her for his unpaid bills since they were legally married. We could barely afford to live as it was and she really couldn't take any more financially or emotionally. The restraining order wasn't working after he got out of prison and we were very scared for our lives.

Even after hearing this there are those that believe she sinned in divorcing. They quote scripture from their bible and say that is the word of their God that has not an ounce of mercy or love. I hear often that adultery is the only grounds for divorce. I sit here disgusted with the lack of empathy of other Christians. The lack of mercy they feel God has and displays, with how literal they interpret the bible, and if they think that time and current laws affect the bible. I mean how many out there are stoning their children these days.

If I want to mirror myself to live and be as close to Jesus Christ as possible I would be someone who is lacking in mercy, empathy, compassion and the ability to show love to another. How enticing some Christians make Christianity.

 

[Sketcher]

There are many who would say that divorce is only permissible when your spouse cheats on you. However, very few of those people would say that people must stay under the same roof as an abuser. In fact, many of us would say not to sign any divorce papers, but to get the abused spouse and the kids somewhere safe.

The way we look at it is the way Christ looked at it: The popular view of the day was a man was allowed to divorce his wife and remarry "for any and every reason." Did she burn your food? It was perfectly OK to divorce her and she would be forced to live on the streets. Many in the church today also want to divorce "for any and every reason" - they meet someone else who they want to get together with, they can't stand the quirks that their spouses have right before bed, they just don't get along while living under the same roof. They ignore the words of Jesus himself in order to justify their divorces. The truth is the same today as it was 2000 years ago - marriage is a sacred, lifelong union. You don't just discard it and claim to be Christlike.

 

[clep]

There are many who would say that divorce is only permissible when your spouse cheats on you. However, very few of those people would say that people must stay under the same roof as an abuser. In fact, many of us would say not to sign any divorce papers, but to get the abused spouse and the kids somewhere safe.

The way we look at it is the way Christ looked at it: The popular view of the day was a man was allowed to divorce his wife and remarry "for any and every reason." Did she burn your food? It was perfectly OK to divorce her and she would be forced to live on the streets. Many in the church today also want to divorce "for any and every reason" - they meet someone else who they want to get together with, they can't stand the quirks that their spouses have right before bed, they just don't get along while living under the same roof. They ignore the words of Jesus himself in order to justify their divorces. The truth is the same today as it was 2000 years ago - marriage is a sacred, lifelong union. You don't just discard it and claim to be Christlike.

How exactly does this response relate to the post I put up and the accounts of severe abuse?

Are you actually trying to say that the non abuser discarded the marriage for all the self serving reasons you have stated above?

Do you really believe that raping one's children and going to prison for rape and attempted murder of one's children is not grounds for divorce by the other parent in the eyes of God?

Do you also believe that one should stay married, paying for the abuser financially for the rest of their life due to the unwillingness of the abuser to be a productive citizen that is responsible enough to pay their own bills?

 

[SharonL]

It is obvious that people that say to stay in a situation like that has not walked in your shoes. God does not expect us to live in those circumstances.The Bible says it is better to live on a rooftop alone than to live with a nagging woman (man) whoever.

Give your mom all the love and support you can possibly give her - she has had enough hell on earth and so have you children. Try to start anew in your thinking and as much as possible, try to put it behind you - you will never be able to put it entirely behind you, but be thankful you are out of it. Jesus knows what is in your heart and He is there to comfort you - talk to Him as your friend, the Bible tells us He is your friend. Don't listen to those telling you that you should stay in a situation such as you describe - God is not telling you that. I pray God's peace and comfort upon you and pray for a new beginning that you can put this awful life style behind you as far as you can.

Praying for you.

 

[pilgrimgal]

Give your mom all the love and support you can possibly give her - she has had enough hell on earth and so have you children. Try to start anew in your thinking and as much as possible, try to put it behind you - you will never be able to put it entirely behind you, but be thankful you are out of it. Jesus knows what is in your heart and He is there to comfort you - talk to Him as your friend, the Bible tells us He is your friend. Don't listen to those telling you that you should stay in a situation such as you describe - God is not telling you that. I pray God's peace and comfort upon you and pray for a new beginning that you can put this awful life style behind you as far as you can.

Praying for you.

Dear clep, I agree with Sharon's advice..it is right and to the point especially her praying for peace, comfort, and a new beginning. Your heavenly Father loves you.

Praying for you also..

 

[wide lats]

How exactly does this response relate to the post I put up and the accounts of severe abuse?

Are you actually trying to say that the non abuser discarded the marriage for all the self serving reasons you have stated above?

Do you really believe that raping one's children and going to prison for rape and attempted murder of one's children is not grounds for divorce by the other parent in the eyes of God?

Do you also believe that one should stay married, paying for the abuser financially for the rest of their life due to the unwillingness of the abuser to be a productive citizen that is responsible enough to pay their own bills?

Nobody in the right mind would say that its ok. Especially the J. Man.

 

[Sketcher]

How exactly does this response relate to the post I put up and the accounts of severe abuse?

The part I wrote before that applied to it directly. The part you seem to object to simply explains why a more permissive stance on divorce is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Are you actually trying to say that the non abuser discarded the marriage for all the self serving reasons you have stated above?

Of course not. I was talking about the issue of divorce in the church, not your family's terrible circumstances. Being as the original post is complaining about the issue of divorce in the church and using your family as an example, it seemed appropriate.

Do you really believe that raping one's children and going to prison for rape and attempted murder of one's children is not grounds for divorce by the other parent in the eyes of God?

I'd say that rape would be the worst form of sexual immorality, and therefore, it's legit to divorce someone over that. I would hope that moms would get themselves and their kids to safety before the rape would have even happened.

Do you also believe that one should stay married, paying for the abuser financially for the rest of their life due to the unwillingness of the abuser to be a productive citizen that is responsible enough to pay their own bills?

I would think and hope that the courts would be able to resolve an issue like that without having to resort to a divorce.

 

[salida]

Sorry, you got this advice. Abuse is a good reason for divorce. God wants us to live in peace not abuse.

 

[razeontherock]

Even after hearing this there are those that believe she sinned in divorcing.

If I want to mirror myself to live and be as close to Jesus Christ as possible I would be someone who is lacking in mercy, empathy, compassion and the ability to show love to another.

Dear clep -

I am horribly sorry for what you have had to endure, and it's amazing you survived. Unfortunately, even on this site you have to ignore many, and recognize a few that actually know the Lord and minister His Truth in His Power. SharonL is one that does this consistently; her one post here is no fluke.

I hate to raise the sore point, but you mentioned it. Rape IS adultery, and therefore divorce has those grounds. As well as what Salida said.

The important thing NOW, is hopefully the last part of what I quoted you here is just venting, not what you really think? This may be an ok place to vent, if it serves your needs. Just remember that other posters who say unsavory things also have their own issues to work through, and they may not be able to even see what they are.

Let us bear one another's burdens, and learn of Him.

 

[Johnnz]

Others have shared the same problem. There are those Christians who believe they are right, they 'have it all sewn up'. That can lead to being very narrow and judgemental. But such people do exist and are here on the forum.

Try and ignore those people.You will find some posts 'register' with you. Accept only those and discard the rest.

John
NZ

 

[globug54321]

I am so sorry for the terror you life was and still is. Having grown up in an abusive family, I do understand your pain and the anger you feel about the advice your mother was given. We Christians can be some of the most harsh, mean-spirited people I know. God forgive us.

The only "help" I can offer... God, whether you know it or not, believe it or not, is and was with you. We don't always understand the "why" of things and sometimes we never will. I do know that my "survival" left me in the same place you are. It took years before I was able to forgive and see from looking back, that there were times when my life was saved by God. Perhaps the trials I now face would over-whelm me if I wasn't a "survivor"? Maybe God knew that I would need that strength today? Maybe He saw that YOU would need someone who knew what you went through and could not only understand, but empathize? I only KNOW that He healed me and He will heal you and your family if you let Him.

I will pray for you. Please let me know how you're doing and if I can be of help. Even if it's only a shoulder and an understanding ear. God really does love us!

 

[clep]

It is obvious that people that say to stay in a situation like that has not walked in your shoes. God does not expect us to live in those circumstances.The Bible says it is better to live on a rooftop alone than to live with a nagging woman (man) whoever.

Give your mom all the love and support you can possibly give her - she has had enough hell on earth and so have you children. Try to start anew in your thinking and as much as possible, try to put it behind you - you will never be able to put it entirely behind you, but be thankful you are out of it. Jesus knows what is in your heart and He is there to comfort you - talk to Him as your friend, the Bible tells us He is your friend. Don't listen to those telling you that you should stay in a situation such as you describe - God is not telling you that. I pray God's peace and comfort upon you and pray for a new beginning that you can put this awful life style behind you as far as you can.

Praying for you.

I hear that she was right in leaving, but not right in divorcing. Also that she must live alone the rest of her life due to his actions.

That is the part that is bothering me. To tell someone that has been required to endure control and abuse from someone, that their lives will remain controlled by the actions of the abuser is just sad.

 

[clep]

The part I wrote before that applied to it directly. The part you seem to object to simply explains why a more permissive stance on divorce is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.


Of course not. I was talking about the issue of divorce in the church, not your family's terrible circumstances. Being as the original post is complaining about the issue of divorce in the church and using your family as an example, it seemed appropriate.


I'd say that rape would be the worst form of sexual immorality, and therefore, it's legit to divorce someone over that. I would hope that moms would get themselves and their kids to safety before the rape would have even happened.


I would think and hope that the courts would be able to resolve an issue like that without having to resort to a divorce.

I object to how illogical some people are, how they use the bible as a tool to cosign the behaviors of an abuser and expect someone to stay a victim for the whole of their lives.

I wasn't talking about divorce in the church in general. I was speaking of divorce in the church when it comes to an abusive situation only hence the explanation.

Most don't get themselves and children to safety because they don't even know it is going on. In my case the beatings were enough to warrant leaving, but not in the eyes of the church. If my mom was a good Christian woman she would believe that God would deliver her out of the life she was living they would say.

The courts don't change the laws based on each person's situation. There is no judge that will ban creditors from coming after someone who is legally married. She tried that. She was told to get a divorce. When she said she didn't believe in divorce the judge just said "Will you believe in it when you are living on the street". The world we live in does not always support the beliefs in the bible. It's time some Christians out there figure that out.

 

[clep]

Dear clep -

I am horribly sorry for what you have had to endure, and it's amazing you survived. Unfortunately, even on this site you have to ignore many, and recognize a few that actually know the Lord and minister His Truth in His Power. SharonL is one that does this consistently; her one post here is no fluke.

I hate to raise the sore point, but you mentioned it. Rape IS adultery, and therefore divorce has those grounds. As well as what Salida said.

The important thing NOW, is hopefully the last part of what I quoted you here is just venting, not what you really think? This may be an ok place to vent, if it serves your needs. Just remember that other posters who say unsavory things also have their own issues to work through, and they may not be able to even see what they are.

Let us bear one another's burdens, and learn of Him.

Thanks for your kind words. It isn't really amazing to me that I survived because I was never alone. I was being carried the whole time.

I agree that rape is adultery. I also feel that the abuse we endured even before the rapes was also grounds for divorce.

Oh that's not what I really think. I think that those that appear merciless are not mirrored themselves in the eyes of God. I see it quite often and it is rather sad.

Thank you for your last sentence. I need to keep that in mind.

 

[clep]

I am so sorry for the terror you life was and still is. Having grown up in an abusive family, I do understand your pain and the anger you feel about the advice your mother was given. We Christians can be some of the most harsh, mean-spirited people I know. God forgive us.

The only "help" I can offer... God, whether you know it or not, believe it or not, is and was with you. We don't always understand the "why" of things and sometimes we never will. I do know that my "survival" left me in the same place you are. It took years before I was able to forgive and see from looking back, that there were times when my life was saved by God. Perhaps the trials I now face would over-whelm me if I wasn't a "survivor"? Maybe God knew that I would need that strength today? Maybe He saw that YOU would need someone who knew what you went through and could not only understand, but empathize? I only KNOW that He healed me and He will heal you and your family if you let Him.

I will pray for you. Please let me know how you're doing and if I can be of help. Even if it's only a shoulder and an understanding ear. God really does love us!

Oh you are so right, you have no idea how much. My life is wonderful now. I was 13 when my mom finally left and 15 when she divorced. I am over 40 now and went through more than a decade of psychologist aid.

Forgiveness really isn't a problem for me. My mother and father were both abused. They did the best with what they knew as odd as that may sound. I don't speak to either of them, for different reasons, but I do pray for them and hope my father will be saved one day.

My son's father went through an abusive childhood. I did have boundaries with him and we split three times before we were both saved around the same time. I had an understanding and patience that no one else did. I do believe God had a plan for me, us and our future which I am so grateful for. I believe that God sent someone to me that needed patience and grace and I was able to provide it. Now our son lives in a safe loving home filled with God's love and guidance. I could never ask for more.

It is sometimes hard to hear those speak that are a hindrance to those in that type of situation, and I have not seen or heard so consistently until I came onto this site. Those types were also the ones that aided in me being so sickened in the Christian beliefs.

We can be a hindrance or a help. Thank you. You have been a help today.

 

[wide lats]

I see everyone got a thanks except me - ok, cool.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I would think that if a so called husband is raping his daughters or children,That would be adultery,So she sould have every right to divorce.So sorry your mom and family had to go tru this.At least she got her kids out of this situation,Some sadly don't.

 

[heymikey80]

I hear that she was right in leaving, but not right in divorcing. Also that she must live alone the rest of her life due to his actions.

That is the part that is bothering me. To tell someone that has been required to endure control and abuse from someone, that their lives will remain controlled by the actions of the abuser is just sad.

Yeah, I rather think that whole idea is creepy. I'm not the child of such abuse as you've been through, but I certainly don't hold to this position.

People are concluding this way by expanding on specific statements Jesus made regarding divorce. They don't apply this way in my opinion. Jesus made statements assuming a very lax period, permitting divorce for "anything". He often presumed that divorced people didn't have legitimate grounds for divorce. and He was right. Under legitimate grounds for divorce, the verdict wouldn't be a divorce. It'd be stoning. "divorced" people weren't divorced for legit reasons. They were "widowed," and thus free to remarry.

To me the whole issue is resolved in that theological sense. Theologically: treat the guy as dead. That's what the Law says he should be. Your mom's free to remarry.

When I make statements like this though, please understand: I'm not just responding to you. I have to be writing to an entire population of people who will read this posting. Sketcher and I have separate views on many things, but I see in Sketcher's posting that same concern for wording. We want you to realize, there are clear paths to disagree with such errant advice. We can't express the same horror you are so well-acquainted with. We haven't been through it. But there's little doubt in my mind both Sketcher and I are feeling a great deal of disgust for the situation and sympathy with you.

 

[sbbqb7n16]

Jesus didn't need to address attempting to murder a child as a reason for divorce because in His day, if you attempted to murder a child - you were sentenced to death. No need for divorce if the spouse is dead.

Raping children would 100% qualify as sexual immorality and is obviously a justified reason for divorce.


God created marriage to be beautiful and loving. Not as a way to lock a woman into a lifetime of abuse. Physically abusing the spouse is clearly not Bible approved, though I'm not sure what the Biblical punishment for abuse was. Spousal abuse is a good reason for divorce.

As Sketcher was pointing out, the context of Jesus' statements were directed at men who were divorcing wives for frivolous reasons. Not for heinous crimes such as what you mention.


I also don't like that you've kinda lumped us all into one big boat because of a few idiots that can't read the words in context. But a few bad apples spoil the bunch, so I guess that stuff happens.

Sorry that some people are dumb.

 

[clep]

I see everyone got a thanks except me - ok, cool.

Oh sorry I missed that one somehow. What exactly was the point of putting up this follow up post?