Tyndale and defying the Pope

[tadoflamb]

[Quoting from Diarmaid MacCulloch, A History of Christianity, 2009]

"Tyndale's biographer, David Daniell, has bluntly pointed out that 'Nine-Tenths of the Authorized Version's New Testament is Tyndale's'"

That's frightening. I've heard that finding errors in Tyndale's translation is as hard as finding water in the ocean.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That's frightening. I've heard that finding errors in Tyndale's translation is as hard as finding water in the ocean.

Tis an old wives tale bro

1Timothy 4:7 The yet profane and crones/old-wives myths be thou refusing!
Be thou exercising! yet thyself toward devoutness.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That's frightening. I've heard that finding errors in Tyndale's translation is as hard as finding water in the ocean.

Tis an old wives tale bro....

1Timothy 4:7 The yet profane and crones/old-wives myths be thou refusing!
Be thou exercising! yet thyself toward devoutness.

 

[Mr Dave]

Tis an old wives tale bro....

1Timothy 4:7 The yet profane and crones/old-wives myths be thou refusing!
Be thou exercising! yet thyself toward devoutness.

Back to the mega-tome that is MacCulloch's A History.

"Tyndale brought not just evangelical fervour and an exceptional skill in Greek and Hebrew to his task, but an exceptional ear for languages [having been born on the English-Welsh border]... He understood that English might actually be closer than Latin to Hebrew in its rhythms and driving narrative force."

 

[tadoflamb]

Back to the mega-tome that is MacCulloch's A History.

"Tyndale brought not just evangelical fervour and an exceptional skill in Greek and Hebrew to his task, but an exceptional ear for languages [having been born on the English-Welsh border]... He understood that English might actually be closer than Latin to Hebrew in its rhythms and driving narrative force."

Another opinion:

Lastly, if the Church had decided to provide a new English translation of Scripture, Tyndale would not have been the man chosen to do it. He was known as only a mediocre scholar and had gained a reputation as a priest of unorthodox opinions and a violent temper. He was infamous for insulting the clergy, from the pope down to the friars and monks, and had a genuine contempt for Church authority. In fact, he was first tried for heresy in 1522, three years before his translation of the New Testament was printed. His own bishop in London would not support him in this cause.

Catholic Culture : Library : Tyndale's Heresy

 

[Mr Dave]

Another opinion:

Catholic Culture : Library : Tyndale's Heresy

Internationally recognised Oxonian Professor of the History of the Church v. [biased] Roman Catholic report on the issue of someone who helped bring about the Reformation in England and separation of the English Church from the Roman one.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Another opinion:

Catholic Culture : Library : Tyndale's Heresy

I prefer my own translation [commonly referred to as the LLOJ "Yoda Revised Version"
....the RCs, EOs and Protestants can have theirs

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=49316928&postcount=130

I've always enjoyed LLOJ's Bible quotes. Jokingly (and not at all insultingly) I refer to it as "the Yoda Revised Version" because the sense of it one can undersand, but backwards iusually it reads!

 

[heritage36]

That's frightening. I've heard that finding errors in Tyndale's translation is as hard as finding water in the ocean.

Who told you that, roman catholic friends? Tyndale was actually a very good translator it seems. That last article about his "heresy" screamed catholic bias too, and was authored by catholics who would naturally support their churches view as is so often the case.

 

[tadoflamb]

Internationally recognised Oxonian Professor of the History of the Church v. [biased] Roman Catholic report on the issue of someone who helped bring about the Reformation in England and separation of the English Church from the Roman one.

Who you gonna believe an Oxonian professor or the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH!

Besides, how has all that separation worked out for you all, you know, with Wesley and the bishops and all that?

 

[tadoflamb]

I prefer my own translation [commonly referred to as the LLOJ "Yoda Revised Version"

I know you do. It's as difficult to read as it is to understand.

I see why you call Tyndale, 'bro'.

 

[Mr Dave]

Who you gonna believe an Oxonian professor or the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH!

When did the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH () say he was a mediocre scholar, the website was catholicculture.org so is linked but not a representative voice of the Vatican (I'd use vatican.va for that ).
I think he became internationally recognised and an Oxonian Professor in Church History because he knows what he's talking about.

Besides, how has all that separation worked out for you all, you know, with Wesley and the bishops and all that?

ROFL
Separations not too bad you know, we're made welcome in all churches (even those of the Roman Catholic Church in England & Wales ) as is expected (section 156.1 The Grace Given You in Christ: Catholics and Methodists Reflect Further on the Church).
As "The Methodist Church claims and cherishes its place in the Holy Catholic Church which is the Body of Christ, " we're not really separate are we

 

[tadoflamb]

When did the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH () say he was a mediocre scholar, the website was catholicculture.org so is linked but not a representative voice of the Vatican (I'd use vatican.va for that ).

I checked the Vatican website. No mention of William Tyndale.

Obviously, they weren't too impressed by his scholarship.

I think he became internationally recognised and an Oxonian Professor in Church History because he knows what he's talking about.

Tyndale's own bishop wouldn't allow him to do the translation.

Finding no support for his translation from his bishop, he left England and went to Worms, where he fell under the influence of Martin Luther. There in 1525 he produced a translation of the New Testament that was swarming with textual corruption. He willfully mistranslated entire passages of sacred Scripture in order to condemn orthodox Catholic doctrine and support the new Lutheran ideas. The bishop of London claimed that he could count over 2,000 errors in the volume (and this was just the New Testament).

ROFL
Separations not too bad you know, we're made welcome in all churches (even those of the Roman Catholic Church in England & Wales ) as is expected (section 156.1 The Grace Given You in Christ: Catholics and Methodists Reflect Further on the Church).
As "The Methodist Church claims and cherishes its place in the Holy Catholic Church which is the Body of Christ, " we're not really separate are we

We're not exactly in full communion either, are we?

Allow me to quote out of context:

I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

Till we all are one.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*

Till we all are one.

Probably won't be in my lifetime

http://www.christianforums.com/t6449385/#post40857466

 

[tadoflamb]

Probably won't be in my lifetime

http://www.christianforums.com/t6449385/#post40857466

Probably not.

I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create dissensions and obstacles, in opposition to the teaching that you learned; avoid them. (Romans 16:17)

​

 

[ebia]

That's frightening. I've heard that finding errors in Tyndale's translation is as hard as finding water in the ocean.

That quote was made by those who opposed what Tyndale was doing. If you have a look at what they meant by "error" it's any way of expressing something that Thomas More and the Bishop of London didn't like because it didn't reinforce the Catholic perspective. So, for example, translating presbyter as elder instead of priest counted as an "error".

 

[ebia]

I know you do. It's as difficult to read as it is to understand.

I see why you call Tyndale, 'bro'.

If you can get past the spelling Tyndale's translation is very readable still.

Tyndale's own bishop wouldn't allow him to do the translation.

Of course not. Tyndale's bishop didn't want it translated at all, and if it were to be translated wanted it done in such a way as to support the Catholic position. He didn't think Tyndale would do that, and was probably right.

 

[heritage36]

Yeah, the church has never much liked when translations don't match up with what they like. Man, there are so many examples of that. Put "gentile" in wherever they can find a possible spot, put "church" in for every occurrence of ekklesia which means outcalled or outpositioned and wasnt talking about an actual church usually, and of course as ebia mentioned, make sure we fit a few of church positional titles in the Bible a few times, so they can use it to back them, even though those titles didn't exist back then.

 

[MrPolo]

ekklesia which means outcalled or outpositioned

You mean all the Bible translators, Catholic and Protestant that translate ekklesia as "Church" don't know what they're doing?????

 

[ebia]

You mean all the Bible translators, Catholic and Protestant that translate ekklesia as "Church" don't know what they're doing?????

The reality, or course, is that there is no word in English that captures the same range of connotations as Ekklesia in the original.

 

[MrPolo]

The reality, or course, is that there is no word in English that captures the same range of connotations as Ekklesia in the original.

What are some connotations the word "Church" is lacking?