elephants unable to support own weight according to YEC 'scientist'

[Split Rock]

yeah. A poe or a troll. he cant be real.

I've been saying this for quite a while now. At least you guys must have given him some real good laughs...

 

[tanzanos]

So you are saying that between leg and and body are a whole bunch of muscles?

I kind of doubt it. Would bone connection be much better?

I cut chicken. It seems to me the body of a chicken rested on a socket for the leg bone. And I guess chicken has a similar structure to dinosaurs.

Why are mammals (cats, bears, as you said) different?

We are talking about the FORE limbs not the hind limbs. Hind limbs are connected to the pelvis which is an integral part of the lower spinal column. The fore limbs are not connected to the spinal column directly. It is all done with muscles.

 

[greenery]

So you are saying that between leg and and body are a whole bunch of muscles?

I kind of doubt it. Would bone connection be much better?

You kind of doubt it??? there is nothing to doubt, look it up and see for yourself then there will be no doubt in your mind will there?

 

[juvenissun]

You kind of doubt it??? there is nothing to doubt, look it up and see for yourself then there will be no doubt in your mind will there?

What are the key words to search? I am not sure how to find the exact linkage I want to see. If you said that it is a muscle link. I would like to see a diagram which shows the muscle link and no other linkage between the leg and the body.

I know chick, duck, goose, (I dissected all of them in kitchen) and human. Their bodies are all supported by bone linkage, not muscle linkage.

 

[juvenissun]

We are talking about the FORE limbs not the hind limbs. Hind limbs are connected to the pelvis which is an integral part of the lower spinal column. The fore limbs are not connected to the spinal column directly. It is all done with muscles.

I know the connection of chicken wing to its body. It looks like a bone connection, which is the same as the leg-body connection. Am I right?

Is elephant different?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

I know the connection of chicken wing to its body. It looks like a bone connection, which is the same as the leg-body connection. Am I right?

Is elephant different?

All mammals share a common bone pattern. Clavicle in anterior, scupula posterior, a ball and socket joint, connecting one bone (humerus) to two bones (radius/ulna), connected to several small bones (carpals) connected to five metacarpals, connected to five digits (proximal/middle/distal phalanges). Virtually all tetrapods share this bone structure.

So, to answer your question, an arm bone is connected to the scapula, which is connected to the thorax with muscular and ligamentous attachments.

 

[SLP]

So you are saying that between leg and and body are a whole bunch of muscles?

I kind of doubt it.

I don't care what you doubt. Look at the skeleton - there is NO bone-to-bone connection between the bones of the forelimb and the axial skeleton (the hindlimb is a different story, but irrelevant to the lie/incompetence Menton displayed).

Would bone connection be much better?

Not particularly, at least not judging from the animals that do have bone-to-bone connections between the upper limb and axial skeleton (like primates).

I cut chicken. It seems to me the body of a chicken rested on a socket for the leg bone. And I guess chicken has a similar structure to dinosaurs.

Why are mammals (cats, bears, as you said) different?

The hind leg structures are essentially the same as far as their connections to the axial skeleton. Look at this dinosaur:

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thu...-fossil-postosuchus-kirkpatricki-triassic.jpg


It appears to have been bipedal, but no matter - there is no bone-to-bone (or does not appear to be, anyway) connection between the upper limb and the axial skeleton.

 

[juvenissun]

All mammals share a common bone pattern. Clavicle in anterior, scupula posterior, a ball and socket joint, connecting one bone (humerus) to two bones (radius/ulna), connected to several small bones (carpals) connected to five metacarpals, connected to five digits (proximal/middle/distal phalanges). Virtually all tetrapods share this bone structure.

So, to answer your question, an arm bone is connected to the scapula, which is connected to the thorax with muscular and ligamentous attachments.

I don't understand your big words. Is there a bone connection between the foreleg of elephant and it's body?

 

[SLP]

All mammals share a common bone pattern. Clavicle in anterior, scupula posterior, a ball and socket joint, connecting one bone (humerus) to two bones (radius/ulna), connected to several small bones (carpals) connected to five metacarpals, connected to five digits (proximal/middle/distal phalanges). Virtually all tetrapods share this bone structure.

So, to answer your question, an arm bone is connected to the scapula, which is connected to the thorax with muscular and ligamentous attachments.

One minor clrification - not all mammals have clavicles, and in many that do, they are rudimentary and in some cases to not even attach to other bones. In domestic cats, for example:

 

[SLP]

What are the key words to search? I am not sure how to find the exact linkage I want to see. If you said that it is a muscle link. I would like to see a diagram which shows the muscle link and no other linkage between the leg and the body.

Did you not see the elephant skeleton?

I know chick, duck, goose, (I dissected all of them in kitchen) and human. Their bodies are all supported by bone linkage, not muscle linkage.

Please note that they are all birds, and that as has been pointed out, the issue is the foreliomb of a terrestrial tetrapod (quadruped).

 

[SLP]

I don't understand your big words. Is there a bone connection between the foreleg of elephant and it's body?

NO.

 

[juvenissun]

I don't care what you doubt. Look at the skeleton - there is NO bone-to-bone connection between the bones of the forelimb and the axial skeleton (the hindlimb is a different story, but irrelevant to the lie/incompetence Menton displayed).

Not particularly, at least not judging from the animals that do have bone-to-bone connections between the upper limb and axial skeleton (like primates).

The hind leg structures are essentially the same as far as their connections to the axial skeleton. Look at this dinosaur:

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thu...-fossil-postosuchus-kirkpatricki-triassic.jpg

It appears to have been bipedal, but no matter - there is no bone-to-bone (or does not appear to be, anyway) connection between the upper limb and the axial skeleton.

Ok. Can't rely on you. I will do my own search.

 

[juvenissun]

NO.

OK. I will see.

 

[SLP]

Ok. Can't rely on you. I will do my own search.

Can't rely on me for what?

I answered your questions/claims, what exactly do you think you deserve?

But hey, great - I'm sure you will find exactly what you want to see - though since you don't understand those big words, I doubt you will be able to understand what you find.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

I don't understand your big words. Is there a bone connection between the foreleg of elephant and it's body?

No.

 

[juvenissun]

Can't rely on me for what?

I answered your questions/claims, what exactly do you think you deserve?

But hey, great - I'm sure you will find exactly what you want to see - though since you don't understand those big words, I doubt you will be able to understand what you find.

Do you see the difference between the hind leg connection and the fore leg connection in this illustration? I don't.

 

[SLP]

OK. I will see.

You've already been shown.

OK, that top one is a mastadon, but it shows the shoulder quite nicely.

But by all means, do your own 'search.'

whatever....

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

One minor clrification - not all mammals have clavicles, and in many that do, they are rudimentary and in some cases to not even attach to other bones. In domestic cats, for example:

Thanks for the clarification. It's been a while since I've opened my zoology text. I should have limited my statement to primates.

 

[SLP]

Do you see the difference between the hind leg connection and the fore leg connection in this illustration? I don't.

Thats because you are...

Yes, I see a tremendous difference - and it is better to look at actual skeletons (like the several I supplied) - the hind limb articulates direclty with the pelvis which is directly attached to the vertebral column. No such connection exists for the forelimb.

Of course, were your 'interpretation' correct, then menton is in even bigger trouble - thanks!

 

[juvenissun]

You've already been shown.

OK, that top one is a mastadon, but it shows the shoulder quite nicely.

But by all means, do your own 'search.'

whatever....

Ok. The triangular bone (I call it shoulder bone), is that a part of the body or a part of the leg?