Who did away with the law?

[squint]

The issue is not the spiritual lessons that are gained from the law, and you would find that I acknowledge these in my posts. This is a reason that the law is quoted many times in New Testament passages.

Paul was abundantly clear that the Law also remains and was written against the Lawless, meaning it still stands against them. To say we as believers do not contain the power of sinning evil lawlessness is also simply NOT true. Those powers IN ALL have A PERMANENT BLOCKADE set up by GOD in THE LAW, and the LAW proves it is IN ALL, believer or unbeliever. This is the testimony of THE LAW proving the FACT. IF a believer dodges this fact they are simply deceived about same fact.

The Law does today still arouse and empower the power of SIN in ALL, openly or in the dark, acknowledged or not.

But you do not have a reason to dismiss the mandates of the law by stating that burning animals wasn't germane to loving one another.

I don't dismiss the Law whatsoever. It is what it is, proves what it proves and remains fully effective for those purposes, acknowledged or NOT by any man or group.

God didn't ask for the children of Israel to qualify His covenant by the motives they reasoned from it - He demanded compliance as a requisite to possess the promised land and to live (see Deuteronomy 30:15-16).

The Law was always to provoke the LAWLESSNESS within the hearts to which the people of Israel testify to IN JUDGMENTS of them for 'violations' of same. The FAULT with(in) the people will NEVER be LAWFUL nor is it even possible because of the FAULT.

You simply dismissed the law while finding reason to contend with those who have acknowledged the same conclusion you make in your practice.

No, I draw the line with believers who think that the power of SINNING EVIL LAWLESSNESS is no longer within their own flesh and mind and no longer CONDEMNED by the Law. I simply say that is not a TRUTHFUL position or conclusion of THE LAW.

You aren't finding support for the law, especially in dismissing large portions of it to suit your reasoning.

I dismiss none of it. The Law incites the power of evil sinning lawlessness to this moment just as the very first LAW of DO NOT EAT did in Adam.

The commandment to love one another is quoted by John in his first epistle:

22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
​

John's documentation is found in his Gospel account as a new commandment: "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34). Leviticus 19:18 found in the first covenant's law says pretty much the same thing, and yet Jesus calls this a new commandment. It would seem that this is an edict Jesus wants to convey to His redeemed, and He doesn't depend on the former law that Hebrews 10:9 states He took away to establish the new covenant that isn't compatible with the first.

I am not going to pick with you over the term NEW. New, Grace and Truth in Christ Jesus was NEW in Israel, even though the COMMAND was already therein. His Light was shed upon SAME. The PROMISE of MAGNIFICATION was also a PROMISE of the O.T.

Isaiah 42:21
The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

enjoy!

s

 

[JohnRabbit]

Sure the fault was with the peole, but it does prove that the old cov was always broken.

think about how that sounds.

Exodus 34:1 ( NKJV ) 1And the Lord said to Moses, “Cut two tablets of stone like the first ones, and I will write on these tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke.

now, i know you believe that the ten commandments was the old covenant.

so, we are to believe that God wrote something that was always broken and gave it to man, or in other words, God handed man imperfection.

amazing!

 

[bugkiller]

if grace does not allow for sin to occur then what is it's purpose?

Grace does not allow (give permission - actively or passively) to or for sin. Grace is something granted after a violation. This is no condoning sin.

bugkiller

 

[VictorC]

Here's what you wrote before:

I'm not disputing the passing of fleshly ordinance understandings. This did not eliminate The Law or the Spiritual understandings contained therein. Burning an animal has little if anything to do with loving our neighbors as ourselves. There are other avenues to understand EVERY command, not ELIMINATE same. Contained in EVERY COMMAND (without getting boring) is the Spiritual base line of LOVE to NEIGHBORS and therein they are ALL comprehended, not ELIMINATED.

Here's what you're writing now:

I don't dismiss the Law whatsoever. It is what it is, proves what it proves and remains fully effective for those purposes, acknowledged or NOT by any man or group.

Please provide testimony to confirm that you have access to a Levitical priesthood authorized to continue the burnt offerings of approximately 75 lambs (not counting the other animals for now) mandated by the law every typical month. Testify that you are keeping the law that you have already acknowledged doesn't fit your mold concerning loving one another.

 

[98cwitr]

Grace does not allow (give permission - actively or passively) to or for sin. Grace is something granted after a violation. This is no condoning sin.

bugkiller

i see and agree with your position. I thought you were saying there is no room for sin under grace, which seems contradictory to its purpose.

 

[bugkiller]

Provided. Hebrews 10:26-29.

How does grace condemn in these verses? I find grace being abused and rejected. I did not see grace doing anything.

Even more...Grace will provide FIREY INDIGNATION and DESTRUCTION upon EVERY SINNER.

Where is this found?

I SUBMITTED that you state you do not believe JESUS had anything to do with the OLD TESTAMENT LAWS.

An I request that show that Jesus issued the those laws. I assume that you do not have such proof by its absence.

bugkiller

 

[VictorC]

now, i know you believe that the ten commandments was the old covenant.

Galatians 4:24 refers to the covenant from Mount Sinai in the singular: "For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar...". If you don't want others to conclude along with Paul and Moses that the ten commandments was the covenant from Mount Sinai, it would be prudent on your part to document what the only covenant from Mount Sinai was.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Grace does not allow (give permission - actively or passively) to or for sin. Grace is something granted after a violation. This is no condoning sin.

bugkiller

so, what do you call it, can't call it sin. remember,

1 John 3:4 ( NKJV ) 4Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

since, there's no law, to trangress against.

 

[squint]

Here's what you wrote before:

Here's what you're writing now:

Please provide testimony to confirm that you have access to a Levitical priesthood authorized to continue the burnt offerings of approximately 75 lambs (not counting the other animals for now) mandated by the law every typical month. Testify that you are keeping the law that you have already acknowledged doesn't fit your mold concerning loving one another.

The Law has and continues to make the same conclusion in believer or unbeliever. We are all UNDER SIN, the workings of same still empowered by that same Law, access to the above notwithstanding. Law works in resisting relationship with powers that will never be obedient in ANY form whether the external system above is available or not to prove same.

The 'external system' in the Garden was a tree and fruit. The command came to the disobedient lawlessness that had already entered Adam where the Word was sown (Satan enters immediately where THE WORD is SOWN) and the violation of WORD THEFT/SIN had already transpired IN them both and thereby passed into ALL of us long before they actually et. The power of deception is via thought, word and deed. The deed was the 'et.' The thought was already WITHIN.

The PILE ON of LAW to the LAWLESS was delivered in Israel to drive home the point.

Pick up the Law to this day, that power is instantly provoked in mind, external systems available to prove the fact not required and notwithstanding.

The Law says do not do X, and the power of sinning evil says the opposite IN MAN, believer or unbeliever regardless of any Levitical priest being available in a temple.

The Spiritual Law under GRACE and TRUTH is even more violent. Those commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves do in fact end up throwing most of them into eternal fire IN THEIR MINDS and HEARTS.

That too is an operation of the power of indwelling sin in resisting relationship to THE LAW OF LOVE.

MAGNIFICATION.

enjoy!

squint

 

[JohnRabbit]

Galatians 4:24 refers to the covenant from Mount Sinai in the singular: "For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar...". If you don't want others to conclude along with Paul and Moses that the ten commandments was the covenant from Mount Sinai, it would be prudent on your part to document what the only covenant from Mount Sinai was.

i've already answered that and you didn't like my answer, just like you keep reposting that post that i've already answered too.

i've already stated that the covenant was a marriage relationship, where israel was to stay spiritually faithful to God.

the laws were the tenants of the covenant, deut. 4:13.

you don't like that answer, so you call it a non answer.

and paul also understood that the nc is a marriage arrangement too.

 

[squint]

How does grace condemn in these verses? I find grace being abused and rejected. I did not see grace doing anything. Where is this found?An I request that show that Jesus issued the those laws. I assume that you do not have such proof by its absence.

bugkiller

Yes, THE WORD OF GOD did in fact ISSUE THOSE LAWS and JESUS Is The Word of GOD.

Any questions?

 

[Deut 5:29]

Yes, THE WORD OF GOD did in fact ISSUE THOSE LAWS and JESUS Is The Word of GOD.

Any questions?

No questions here. Jesus revealed the Father when He came.
The people at large didn't even know there was the One who became the Father.

 

[VictorC]

i've already answered that and you didn't like my answer, just like you keep reposting that post that i've already answered too.

No, you simply responded with "according to Victor" and dismissed the entire content of the post without comment.

i've already stated that the covenant was a marriage relationship, where israel was to stay spiritually faithful to God.

No, marriage existed about 2500 years before the covenant from Mount Sinai was dictated, and isn't from Mount Sinai.

the laws were the tenants of the covenant, deut. 4:13.

No, the covenant was affixed a proper noun by Moses in the very verse you cite: "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone".

Moses refers to the covenant from Mount Sinai in this passage in the singular, just as Paul does in Galatians 4:24.
(by the way, I believe you mean to use "tenets" where you used "tenants")

you don't like that answer, so you call it a non answer.

and paul also understood that the nc is a marriage arrangement too.

If marriage is the analogy used to describe our new covenant relationship (which he does in Romans 7:4), then how can marriage be used to define the content of the first covenant given at Mount Sinai? Here you use marriage to describe two disparate covenant relationships, while one was affirmed in the singular, and you have not accepted the proper noun used to identify the content of the covenant itself.

 

[VictorC]

The Law has and continues to make the same conclusion in believer or unbeliever. We are all UNDER SIN, the workings of same still empowered by that same Law, access to the above notwithstanding. Law works in resisting relationship with powers that will never be obedient in ANY form whether the external system above is available or not to prove same.

The 'external system' in the Garden was a tree and fruit. The command came to the disobedient lawlessness that had already entered Adam where the Word was sown (Satan enters immediately where THE WORD is SOWN) and the violation of WORD THEFT/SIN had already transpired IN them both and thereby passed into ALL of us long before they actually et. The power of deception is via thought, word and deed. The deed was the 'et.' The thought was already WITHIN.

The PILE ON of LAW to the LAWLESS was delivered in Israel to drive home the point.

Pick up the Law to this day, that power is instantly provoked in mind, external systems available to prove the fact not required and notwithstanding.

The Law says do not do X, and the power of sinning evil says the opposite IN MAN, believer or unbeliever regardless of any Levitical priest being available in a temple.

The Spiritual Law under GRACE and TRUTH is even more violent. Those commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves do in fact end up throwing most of them into eternal fire IN THEIR MINDS and HEARTS.

That too is an operation of the power of indwelling sin in resisting relationship to THE LAW OF LOVE.

MAGNIFICATION.

enjoy!

squint

You haven't rectified your self-contradiction, and you haven't responded to what I requested from you:

Please provide testimony to confirm that you have access to a Levitical priesthood authorized to continue the burnt offerings of approximately 75 lambs (not counting the other animals for now) mandated by the law every typical month. Testify that you are keeping the law that you have already acknowledged doesn't fit your mold concerning loving one another.​

Please don't equate the law with sin, directly refuted by Romans 7:7. The law was ordained to reveal sin to us and drive us to recognize our need for our Redeemer (Galatians 3:24). Don't forget that the next verse (Galatians 3:25) affirms that we are no longer under the tutelage of the law once it has delivered us to the Goal it was designed to lead us to.

 

[bugkiller]

see, that's my point.

paul never says that the law died. even when talking about the husband in verses 2 and 3 his emphasis is on the penalty of the law.

Then the whole presentation Paul is making is of no value. He is just blowing off meaningless words. You wish to say thru this narriative that Paul is teaching the law. Simply not the case.

so much so, that if the wife married while the husband lived, she would break the commandment.

Then why is Paul promoting being married to another Who (Jesus) is raised from the dead. Is Paul then promoting adultery? I don't think so and neither do by your previous discussion.

then, verse 4 says you became dead to the law.

here, paul is talking about baptism like i told you earlier, compare the rhetoric of verse 4 with:

Romans 6:4 ( NKJV ) 4Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

so, go reread all of that and i promise you, your not going to find anywhere in chapter seven where paul says "the law died".

If the focus of the narrative in 7 was about the believer I would agree. However the focus is the law. The believer (church, Christian) is always spoken of in the female gender. God and the law is always spoken of in the male gender. You are comparing apples and peanuts.

bugkiller

 

[squint]

You haven't rectified your self-contradiction, and you haven't responded to what I requested from you:

Please provide testimony to confirm that you have access to a Levitical priesthood authorized to continue the burnt offerings of approximately 75 lambs (not counting the other animals for now) mandated by the law every typical month. Testify that you are keeping the law that you have already acknowledged doesn't fit your mold concerning loving one another.
​

The scripture HAS (HATH) concluded ALL UNDER SIN regardless of there being the above EXTERNAL INSTRUMENT to prove the existence of SINNING LAWLESSNESS within.

Paul in Romans 7 states by the FACT of the LAW just saying DO NOT DO X that the power of SIN is provoked therein...

I have also already and repeatedly stated that because of that PRESENCE of indwelling sin, of EVIL present that NO PERSON can EVER be lawful when they acknowledge THAT PRESENCE as being WITHIN them simultaneously. Every single jot and tittle COULD be followed and it will avail NOTHING to the working of the power of sin/evil present that is within ALL mankind, period, end of conversation. Every supposed LAW KEEPER in the EXTERNAL FASHION will sooner or later PROVE this existence was IN THEM and LAWLESS REGARDLESS of externalities. The INSIDE of their cup remains FILTHY regardless of exterior showmanship.

Please don't equate the law with sin, directly refuted by Romans 7:7.

And please don't project upon me what I have not said. I have never equated THE LAW to SIN.

The law was ordained to reveal sin

Indeed. And to this fact the LAW is still WITNESS.

to us and drive us to recognize our need for our Redeemer (Galatians 3:24). Don't forget that the next verse (Galatians 3:25) affirms that we are no longer under the tutelage of the law once it has delivered us to the Goal it was designed to lead us to.

You can claim YOU as Gods child are NO LONGER UNDER THE LAW. I will say only TWO THINGS. One, that the power of indwelling sin and evil present WITH ALL remains UNDER LAW and CONDEMNED therein. There is no remedy or excuses or performances available for those workings IN ANY.

Secondly, believers who do LOVE their neighbors, ALL, prove themselves to be GODS CHILDREN and are LAWFUL under every jot and tittle of the LAWS REQUIREMENTS because that is GOD IN THEM doing so.

enjoy!

squint

 

[bugkiller]

Yes, THE WORD OF GOD did in fact ISSUE THOSE LAWS and JESUS Is The Word of GOD.

Any questions?

Yes where is your proof. I see you mentioned John 1:1. I am asking for proof that indeed Moses spoke to Jesus and that Jesus himself wrote with His own finger the ten commandments in stone. Now show proof. That proof will be found in the Torah or the Pentateuch. If it does not exist there it does not exist.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

No questions here. Jesus revealed the Father when He came.
The people at large didn't even know there was the One who became the Father.

So show us. Idle unsupported claims are just that. I am betting you can't.

bugkiller

 

[Frogster]

Yes, THE WORD OF GOD did in fact ISSUE THOSE LAWS and JESUS Is The Word of GOD.

Any questions?

Yes.

Did THE WORD OF GOD..Jesus, not know he would say through Paul, that we are not under law, the law is bondage, death, elemental, as a child, a strict pedagogue, works wrath, does not bring life, condemantion..etc..

Whoa Nelly..I could say more.

 

[squint]

Yes.

Did THE WORD OF GOD..Jesus, not know he would say through Paul, that we are not under law, the law is bondage, death, elemental, as a child, a strict pedagogue, works wrath, does not bring life, condemantion..etc..

Whoa Nelly..I could say more.

And you continue to fail grasping that the power of sin and evil present was NOT Paul. Paul however CARRIED those workings/powers in his flesh including in HIS MIND, and those powers in him SINNED and sinned repeatedly, as did THE DEVIL that he also carried.

Believers CAN be OUT from that working while the powers/entities therein us ALL do remain totally UNDER LAW and condemned therein. The Law in this regard as A CONDEMNER, EXPOSER, EMPOWERER OF SIN AND EVIL is the ALLY of THE REDEEMED of the LORD.

I do not subscribe to the gnostic view that Jesus as THE WORD was not GODS WORD in the Old Testament NOR do I subscribe to the EVIL FLESH/MATTER gnostic position as both are heresy.

enjoy!

s