Who did away with the law?

[LittleLambofJesus]

You ask why the Law brings wrath..

From man it is because of their carnal nature ..

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

It is also from God on those who are disobedient, rebellious against His Law.

Romans 1:18
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Romans 2:5
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

Romans 3:5
But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.)

Yeah.....there outta be a Law!
Oh wait, here it is:

Luke 18:20 The commandments thou have known, no thou should be committing adultery, no thou should be murdering/foneushV <5407> (5661), no thou should be stealing, no thou should be bearing false witness. Be honouring thy father and thy mother.

James 5:6 Ye condemn, ye murder/efoneusate <5407> (5656) the Righteous-One, not He is resisting to Ye.
[Matt 27/Reve 9:21]

Revelation 9:21 And not they reform/repent out of their murders, nor out from their sorceries.......
Luke 18:20/James 9:21]

 

[visionary]

Yeah.....there outta be a Law!
Oh wait, here it is:

Luke 18:20 The commandments thou have known, no thou should be committing adultery, no thou should be murdering/foneushV <5407> (5661), no thou should be stealing, no thou should be bearing false witness. Be honouring thy father and thy mother.

James 5:6 Ye condemn, ye murder/efoneusate <5407> (5656) the Righteous-One, not He is resisting to Ye.
[Matt 27/Reve 9:21]

Revelation 9:21 And not they reform/repent out of their murders, nor out from their sorceries.......
Luke 18:20/James 9:21]

Yep that is it..

 

[squint]

Sorry squint, you did not disprove how this loving law, works wrath?

God as LOVE or as LAW assuredly does NOT LOVE lawlessness, sin or evil, period, end of conversation in this matter.

Again..all your really doing is talking about the old creation order, and that sin, law, flesh, go hand in hand..Most know that.

You continue to avoid the fact, that's all. Paul was very frank, honest and open about the present tense condition of the power of SIN, not his FLESH but the POWER that abided therein. Not the 'old blind man' not 'the Adamic nature' not the 'carnal nature' not the 'ego' not the 'self' but the POWER OF SIN and EVIL PRESENT which same is OF THE DEVIL. He did NOT teach sinless perfection by ignoring these facts.

Why did sonship come after the age of law, as per gal 4?

One can certainly claim themselves as A SON and ignore the realities of the scriptures that are presented on these matters. The fact is that NO evil or sin power is A SON. The reality is ALL SONS will speak truth on this matter and not say the power of sin I carry or the influences of EVIL are not there or IS A SON OF GOD.

You have got to look at the historic unfolding of scrpture, and not try to go back to a past era.

That is an argument that many try in ignorance of the facts of the presence of sin and evil. Sin, evil and Gods resistance against these matters has not EVER ceased from Day 1 of Adam and will continue until that power is ERADICATED and DESTROYED, which same is one of our HOPES in the Gospel.

Look here..SO THAT..is a very important thing.

Jesus was clear about Gods Words, that MAN will LIVE by them. Those WORDS include HIS WORDS of the Old Testament.

And by those SAME WORDS all sin and evil remain FULLY CONDEMNED.

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit [5] through faith.

By the way, notice how the loving law, was a curse too.

You may eventually come to see the TWO EDGED SWORD in these matters and that BOTH are very sharp and to the point unto their respective workings. The SAME WORD that blessed Adam caused SATAN to enter therein. Satan enters the hearts wherever GODS WORDS are sown. This means that MAN is simply not alone in these matters according to the WORD. Anyone can DENY this fact, but it does not change the fact and only proves that by the measure of the WORD they become instantly blinded to the fact by that SAME POWER moving over their own hearts.

enjoy!

squint

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yep that is it..

You and others also might want to check out this thread

Hebrews 8:13 in the to be saying 'New' He hath made Old the first.
The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh of disappearance/a-fanismou <854>

http://www.christianforums.com/t7434988/
OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

 

[visionary]

You and others also might want to check out this thread

Hebrews 8:13 in the to be saying 'New' He hath made Old the first.
The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh of disappearance/a-fanismou <854>

http://www.christianforums.com/t7434988/
OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

The old model T is a car.. so is the new.. just is the old is obsolete

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The old model T is a car.. so is the new.. just is the old is obsolete

I rather like some of the old classic cars but can't afford 'em ehehe.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Luke 5:37 "And no one is casting young wine into OLD/palaiouV <3820> vessels, if yet no surely shall be ruined the wine, the young of the vessels and it shall be being poured-out and its vessel shall be perishing
38 but young/neon <3501> wine into NEW/kainouV <2537> vessels is to be cast and both are preserved together.
39 and no one driking old immediately is willing young, for he is saying, 'for the the old kind/gracious is'".

 

[visionary]

I rather like some of the old classic cars but can't afford 'em ehehe.

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Luke 5:37 "And no one is casting young wine into OLD/palaiouV <3820> vessels, if yet no surely shall be ruined the wine, the young of the vessels and it shall be being poured-out and its vessel shall be perishing
38 but young/neon <3501> wine into NEW/kainouV <2537> vessels is to be cast and both are preserved together.
39 and no one driking old immediately is willing young, for he is saying, 'for the the old kind/gracious is'".

my hubby collects and restores them to original condition.

 

[Pythons]

Jesus was crucified and died Wednesday, April 25th, 31 AD.

Thanks for making my point Deut 5:29.....
...And that's IF Christ died in 31 A.D. it didn't happen on a Gregorian Friday!

 

[bugkiller]

The LAW therefore is FROM JESUS as THE WORD.

You did not prove this as a fact from our previous discussion either. What makes it valid now? Forgetfulness?

This is what Jesus said about HIS WORDS:

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:31
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 21:33
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Any view that subscribes THE WORD of JESUS as passed away (read OLD TESTAMENT LAWS) cannot get past the facts above, therefore they are FALSE views.

Indeed those are the words of Jesus. They hhowever do not prove that Jesus instituted the law as in the ten commandments. We have a new covenant that overrides and replaces the old covenant Jer 31:31-34. And the sabbath ceased as promised in Hosea 2:11. The Tanak (stone ed) uses the word terminated.

1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Here the word Christ is in the sense of Messiah - deliverer. It is not the man Jesus Christ. If that was so then Jesus Christ is false.

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Thanks for making my point Deut 5:29.....
...And that's IF Christ died in 31 A.D. it didn't happen on a Gregorian Friday!

http://www.christianforums.com/t7492806/
Exact Date of Christ's Death

 

[squint]

You did not prove this as a fact from our previous discussion either. What makes it valid now? Forgetfulness?Indeed those are the words of Jesus.

As stated prior IF you want to separate GODS LAWS from The Word of Jesus who IS THE WORD that is a basic faux pax (an improper action.) One cannot SEPARATE Jesus from Gods Words anymore than we can separate JESUS from GOD and The Holy Spirit. It just cannot be logically derived to do so.

IF Jesus Was, Is and ever WILL BE Gods Words, THEN, follow the logic reasoning here, THOSE WORDS too are fully true and fully applicable to ALL HIS WORDS from Cover to Cover.

They hhowever do not prove that Jesus instituted the law as in the ten commandments.

You can say that GOD alone delivered the O.T. Laws and ELIMINATE Jesus as The Word from being involved whatsoever. I find that impossible to do. In the VOLUME of THE BOOK it is WRITTEN of JESUS.

We have a new covenant that overrides and replaces the old covenant Jer 31:31-34. And the sabbath ceased as promised in Hosea 2:11. The Tanak (stone ed) uses the word terminated.[/b][/i][/color]

There are many methods used to ELIMINATE Gods Words of Law. I find ALL of those methods quite faulted on a myriad of fronts. We all know that the LAW remains written against the LAWLESS. This is just a fact that even Paul subscribed to. And we certainly know also that LAWLESSNESS still exists in our present economy.

Here the word Christ is in the sense of Messiah - deliverer. It is not the man Jesus Christ. If that was so then Jesus Christ is false.[/size]

bugkiller

And I would consider that methodology to be just another form of WORD KILLING myself, but that is just my opinion. The fact is that there are simply better, more logical and available avenues to approach this subject matter than the ELIMINATION of Gods Words imho.

s

 

[bugkiller]

Brilliant.

The Law does bring any who pick it up certain conclusions. I believe the RCC would generally agree with the same matter. That lawlessness is with us all, which the Law assuredly proves every single time it is engaged.

We find that the law is still in effect for the lawless, not those submitting to grace. I Tim 1:9, 10.We also fing that those who follow the leading of the Spirit do not induldge in sins of the flesh per Gal 5:18-21. Those who push grace are indeed under a law Romans 8:1,2, it is just not the law of Moses which include the ten commandments.[/quote]

Avoidance of the fact does not eliminate the fact. Those who are in resistance to this fact (placing their lawlessness under Grace) or (saying they don't have that working when they AVOID the Law) are simply playing dodgeball with the fact.[/quote]Can you demonstrate this lawlessness in current actions of the grace pusher? IOW how are we lawless? What law are we violating?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Sure the fault was with the peole, but it does prove that the old cov was always broken.

bugkiller

 

[squint]

We find that the law is still in effect for the lawless, not those submitting to grace. I Tim 1:9, 10.

Again, a false conclusion. All have sin and sin is evil lawlessness. Sin/Evil is not eliminated or authorized by Grace whatsoever in anyone, yet alone in believers.

We also fing that those who follow the leading of the Spirit do not induldge in sins of the flesh per Gal 5:18-21.

Whether they 'indulge' or not is not even a question. All have sin and have sinned regardless of their present standing in faith or belief. One does not avoid this conclusion by clouding over the fact with Grace nor does Grace authorize such things. Law and Grace stand HAND IN HAND against all sin, evil and lawlessness without WAIVERING.

Those who push grace are indeed under a law Romans 8:1,2, it is just not the law of Moses which include the ten commandments.

I would agree that Grace and Law does not either eliminate or condone any sin or evil.

Can you demonstrate this lawlessness in current actions of the grace pusher? IOW how are we lawless? What law are we violating?

The power of sin/evil which works in all effectively whether in the open by actions or in the MIND by deceipt resists both LAW and GRACE at every opportunity. One can be UNDER GRACE and LOVE under the LAW fulfilling it therein, and the power of sin and EVIL be under LAW and GRACE in TOTAL CONDEMNATION simultaneously.

This view however seems to elude most who attempt to deal with it.

enjoy!

s

 

[bugkiller]

Not you are getting into the statutes..The Law is the Ten Commandments.. the statutes are govern the state.. and the covenant is sealed with blood.

How quickly you dump Deut 4:13 and 5:1-5.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You can make an attempt to place Law, The Words of God, of Jesus, in the same sentence with FLESH in the false hope that argument will pass away, but there is surely a great difference isn't there?



Many try to salve their new man and ignore their evil present and sin in whatever form they choose.

The observations made will stand regardless. The Law is against lawlessness and Grace is for Gods children. Both are fully true and fully applicable and WILL NOT CHANGE or GO AWAY.

The Law was inextricably LINKED to LOVE in Romans 13, which same, Gods Law and LOVE will not be divided from. One can no more make LAW go away without making LOVE go away in the process.

enjoy!

squint

I still see no hope in your message.

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

How quickly you dump Deut 4:13 and 5:1-5.

bugkiller

Don't forget Deut 28

Deut 28:15 `And it becomes if not thou are listening in voice of YHVH thy Elohiym to observe of and to do of all of instructions of Him and statutes of Him which I instructing of thee the day and they come upon thee all of these curses/katarai/kata/ra #2671 and they overtake thee.
[Revelation 15]

Reve 15:1 And I saw another Sign in the Heaven, great and marvelous.
Messengers seven, having stripes/blows seven, the last, that in them is-finished the Fury of the God

 

[squint]

I still see no hope in your message.

My message? I am not aware that Gods condemnation of all sin and evil under both LAW and GRACE was 'my message' if I happen to agree with same.

I would even like to think that we might agree on that matter?

 

[bugkiller]

As stated prior IF you want to separate GODS LAWS from The Word of Jesus who IS THE WORD that is a basic faux pax (an improper action.) One cannot SEPARATE Jesus from Gods Words anymore than we can separate JESUS from GOD and The Holy Spirit. It just cannot be logically derived to do so.

IF Jesus Was, Is and ever WILL BE Gods Words, THEN, follow the logic reasoning here, THOSE WORDS too are fully true and fully applicable to ALL HIS WORDS from Cover to Cover.



You can say that GOD alone delivered the O.T. Laws and ELIMINATE Jesus as The Word from being involved whatsoever. I find that impossible to do. In the VOLUME of THE BOOK it is WRITTEN of JESUS.



There are many methods used to ELIMINATE Gods Words of Law. I find ALL of those methods quite faulted on a myriad of fronts. We all know that the LAW remains written against the LAWLESS. This is just a fact that even Paul subscribed to. And we certainly know also that LAWLESSNESS still exists in our present economy.

[/size]

And I would consider that methodology to be just another form of WORD KILLING myself, but that is just my opinion. The fact is that there are simply better, more logical and available avenues to approach this subject matter than the ELIMINATION of Gods Words imho.

s

I don't think you are avle to follow the words of Moses as recorded in the Pentateuch in this matter. This is a problem in disbelieving the trinity. The words of the Pentateuch clearly show that none of the words recorded therein are from Jesus Christ.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Don't forget Deut 28

Deut 28:15 `And it becomes if not thou are listening in voice of YHVH thy Elohiym to observe of and to do of all of instructions of Him and statutes of Him which I instructing of thee the day and they come upon thee all of these curses/katarai/kata/ra #2671 and they overtake thee.
[Revelation 15]

Reve 15:1 And I saw another Sign in the Heaven, great and marvelous.
Messengers seven, having stripes/blows seven, the last, that in them is-finished the Fury of the God

Thanks.

bugkiller