Who did away with the law?

[bugkiller]

And where is this writing taking place? In Ancient Near East culture.

Maybe Paul didn't want the Mosaic law reinstated because he wanted to gather all the disciples around to watch the NFL on TV.

New Testament scholar CEB Cranfield also states that Galatians 2:16 and 2:21 is talking about a legalistic following of the Torah, something similar to that of a Talmudic understanding. Given Paul's background is that of a Pharisee, something similar to that of a rabbinical Jew, what he was giving up was that stuff that Yeshua was talking about when he talks about the traditions of men getting in the way of following the Torah.

I am sorry I thought Paul did not want the Christian to meet on Saturday so they could watch college football. Are they swappin days this year? Gotta look in the TV guide this week end. I sure don't want to miss my favorites.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

IF Yeshua is now the administrator of the application of punishment, then I leave it in His hands to "stone' the man for picking up sticks...

But then the verse comes to mind.. Yeshua knows that they will ask for the punishment themselves...

Revelation 6:16
They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

Gimme a break.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Again, CEB Cranfield mentions that "justified by the law" is another way of expressing halakah observance. Anything actually that utilizes erega nomou or upo nomon.

What Paul is actually trying to convey here is that if you follow the Torah in a legalistic manner, which it seemed some of the Gentiles were doing, it will do you no good. This is also confessed by Ariel Berkowitz, a Masters in Theology who became a Messianic Jew.

How is aPaul even implying one should follow the law, when he clearly says to throw it out? Gal 4;30

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Ask Yeshua, He is the judge now..

So then what value is the law? And why do you continue to push it? There is no choice in the law. So is this an admittance on your part the the law is not valid? Seems that is what you are saying. At least to me.

bugkilller

 

[bugkiller]

So he was trying to make them sin more so they could have grace. I don't get that?

Was Paul trying to get them to sin more? I don't think so. Paul showed that the rebelious nature would do when told not to. This indeed is what the law did. Its net effect was an increase in sin.

bugkiller

 

[visionary]

So then what value is the law? And why do you continue to push it? There is no choice in the law. So is this an admittance on your part the the law is not valid? Seems that is what you are saying. At least to me.

bugkilller

Have you not understood that Yeshua has been pointing out that He is the one found in the Law. He is the one to judge now assigned by His Father.

2 Timothy 4:1
In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge:

Romans 2:16
This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I dont know how to serve you..... If I think your comments are in line with text, you get an Amen, if not you get questions or rebuttals. This does not mean your wrong or right. It just gives us something to clarify through communication. We here to grow as christians, not to fight.
I have not commented on your wisdom, but you're the one who have issue with my response to someonelse. If you have issues with a post, repost it and make your arguments clear.

It should be quite clear from what is posted. Too many times people make statements, such as, "who is listening to this guy" and too many others even to post.

Like I said, based on your two post, regardless of position on the subject matter, we (and I mean all of us) should be more careful not to tell others, they are wrong, or they are taking scripture out of context etc...

Go back and read some of the post and look for just what I am talking about. You even said it, when you said, "when someone post something out of context." Really? Who is the judge here? Who would make themselves an authoritarian regarding scripture?

Look at the debates on law, sabbath, or some others. Do not both sides use the same scriptures? Do they not both get their support from the same source?

I don't have a problem with what you said; however, what you said pinpoints the problem exactly.

Y

 

[YosemiteSam]

The old cov was set aside. It was broken all the time.

Leviticus 26:15
if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant,

This is a piece of scripture that should prove to anybody who can decipher english that Gods statues, laws and commandments made up the covenant (agreement or contract) between God and Israel. Most here seem to reason that the commandments, statues and laws are the covenant.

 

[visionary]

This is a piece of scripture that should prove to anybody who can decipher english that Gods statues, laws and commandments made up the covenant (agreement or contract) between God and Israel. Most here seem to reason that the commandments, statues and laws are the covenant.

Not many can figure out which are which though.. there is a difference between the commandments, and statues, and then the covenant itself.

 

[YosemiteSam]

That's what I've done, I've gone after the SDA message that church on Sunday will become Mark of the Beast....
...And I've used Scripture to do it.
...And thrown in the Gregorian Calendar in addition.


[/quote=visionary]
... but to turn this thread into another congregational bashing kinda looses the focus of the subject itself.

No bashing here, I'm just calling out the foolish teaching that Jesus died at Passover in 31 A.D.....
...AND that is coincided with a Gregorian Friday, Sat, Sun.

That's the subject ITSELF, wanna deal with it?



How about we deal with O.P. Visionary.....
...The O.P. which deals with the question on "who changed the law".

If the Saturday Sabbath is considered "the law" or a part of "the law"...
...Then the Saturday Sabbath is part of this discussion.

If the SDA Church would NOT exist w/out their 2300 year prophecy....
...And it's proven THAT PROPHECY was validated on a different sabbath.
...Then the Saturday sabbath isn't that important after all.

So far I've not had anyone say the Passover in 31 A.D. could include a Fri, Sat, Sun.....
...Have you?

I've had several people maintain a Wed cross......
...And they more then made my point.[/quote]


I am not sure what you are talking about? Rome was under the Julian calendar about 46bc and the Gregorian calendar did not come for another 1600 years. But the Julian calendar was not the only calendar in use at the time. So was the Hebrew, and their was others. But these two were primarily in place in the region of Jerusalem and the apostles travels.

So what are we talking about?

 

[Pythons]

I am not sure what you are talking about? Rome was under the Julian calendar about 46bc and the Gregorian calendar did not come for another 1600 years. But the Julian calendar was not the only calendar in use at the time. So was the Hebrew, and their was others. But these two were primarily in place in the region of Jerusalem and the apostles travels.

So what are we talking about?

Yes, the Julian predated the Gregorian calendar....
...And if you back-track either to 31 A.D. both fail to produce a Friday, Sat, Sun Passover Cross event.

My point is this,

The O.P. question asks "WHO CHANGED THE LAW"....
...The law equates ( to the SDA ) that one must worship on Sabbath.
...Sabbath being a Gregorian Saturday.

William Miller was required to use a different calendar so that a WED could become a 7th day Sabbath...
...Because in 31 A.D. anyone knows Passover fell on a Wed in April.

Above are the Gregorian Calendars for March and April of 31 A.D....
...Had the Passover happend in March it would have been on a Tue.
...And as you can see in April it happened on a Wed.

SDA's are the ONLY group I know of that claim Jesus died in 31 A.D....
...And state that is was a FRIDAY, the day prior to the 7th day sabbath.

Passover in 31 A.D. in either March or April did not fall on a Gregorian Friday....

So, in answer to who changed the law of God ( if a Gregorian Saturday is sabbath )....
...Then the anwswer is obviously SDA's, simply because the Gregorian Sabbath is not the same sabbath that was used to justify the denomination.

In April of 31 A.D. the conjunction of the Moon equated to the Gregorian 10th ( a Tuesday )....
...The observed sliver of new moon was observed on the 11th thus making the 12th of April NISAN 1.

Do the Math, Nisan 14 equates to April 25 which ANY passover calculator will confirm was indeed the Passover....
....Now does that look like a Gregorian Friday?

Oddly enough, Catholic Scholars have suggested that Jesus died on 3 April 33 A.D.....
...Not long ago a Protestant crunched some numbers with some software and confirmed this date.

http://thestarofbethlehemmovie.com/

3 April 33 A.D. happens to have Jesus die on the cross for us on the Jewish day of preporation at Passover for that year...
...And it coincides with a Gregorian Friday.

 

[7steps]

All you just posted is possible theology BECAUSE of the 2300 SDA prophecy....
...It all evaporates without it.
...And evaporates with it as you will see.



Thank you. I learned more than I wanted to know about the SDA but no where that I read did it say that they celebrate their Sabbath for the reasons you gave. For what I read they celebrate it because of the same reason that the Jewish people do, because it is the seventh day of the week.

 

[visionary]

Jewish Calendar March 0031 - hebcal.com

 

[visionary]

For Wednesday.. Jewish Calendar 0030 - hebcal.com

 

[Deut 5:29]

Jesus was crucified and died Wednesday, April 25th, 31 AD.

 

[Frogster]

This is a piece of scripture that should prove to anybody who can decipher english that Gods statues, laws and commandments made up the covenant (agreement or contract) between God and Israel. Most here seem to reason that the commandments, statues and laws are the covenant.

Not many can figure out which are which though.. there is a difference between the commandments, and statues, and then the covenant itself.

Then why does it say if you spurn em, you break the cov, which was my point in the first place?


Leviticus 26:15
if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant,

 

[visionary]

Then why does it say if you spurn em, you break the cov, which was my point in the first place?


Leviticus 26:15
if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant,

Fault still lays with them.. In the first covenant, they said all you say we will do.. but they failed to do justice and show mercy... God has made in the new covenant relationship that He is will be the Judge, High Priest, and He will administer the punishment.

 

[squint]

Then why does it say if you spurn em, you break the cov, which was my point in the first place?


Leviticus 26:15
if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant,

One trick theological ponies are a waste of time to ride on.

There are certainly scriptures available to SEMI-justify your conclusion given that your conclusion is the ONLY conclusion available, but fortunately that argument is called an argument from limited available choices, meaning that there are other avenues of understanding available that will not fit your box.

Eliminating Old Testament Laws as being FROM JESUS is impossible. One cannot SEPARATE Jesus from God without getting into severe theological fouls. Jesus IS THE WORD and the OLD TESTAMENT are GODS WORDS as quoted by the Old Testament Prophets and THE LAW.

The LAW therefore is FROM JESUS as THE WORD.

This is what Jesus said about HIS WORDS:

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:31
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 21:33
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Any view that subscribes THE WORD of JESUS as passed away (read OLD TESTAMENT LAWS) cannot get past the facts above, therefore they are FALSE views.

1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

enjoy!

squint

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Eliminating Old Testament Laws as being FROM JESUS is impossible. One cannot SEPARATE Jesus from God without getting into severe theological fouls. Jesus IS THE WORD and the OLD TESTAMENT are GODS WORDS as quoted by the Old Testament Prophets and THE LAW.

The OT are God's words...

I think this is a great point to make. I think we sometimes forget this and if we remember it then we know that God being eternal and unchanging would not change His mind and suddenly do away with His commandments from previous generations.

 

[squint]

The OT are God's words...

I think this is a great point to make. I think we sometimes forget this and if we remember it then we know that God being eternal and unchanging would not change His mind and suddenly do away with His commandments from previous generations.

Brilliant.

The Law does bring any who pick it up certain conclusions. I believe the RCC would generally agree with the same matter. That lawlessness is with us all, which the Law assuredly proves every single time it is engaged.

Avoidance of the fact does not eliminate the fact. Those who are in resistance to this fact (placing their lawlessness under Grace) or (saying they don't have that working when they AVOID the Law) are simply playing dodgeball with the fact.

s